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My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. #689470
05/05/10 12:47 PM
05/05/10 12:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 227
Scottsdale, AZ
Cudalord Offline OP
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Cudalord  Offline OP
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Scottsdale, AZ
Everything else passed with flying colors, and I just wanted a few suggestions before I started making adjustments. I'm not looking for a quick fix like adding heat to the gas or an additive or anything like that.

Here are the readings:

HC Loaded - 184 (450 standard)
HC Idle - 270 (450 standard)
CO Loaded - 7.24 (3.75 standard)
CO Idle - 3.75 (5.0 standard)

7.24 seems awfully high to me. Here's the steps I was going to take initially:

1. Bump Accelerator pump down to lowest setting.
2. Step up the secondary rod to the next leanest

Any other suggestions? Before I took it in I had the heads rebuilt with new seals, replaced head gaskets, spark plugs. Set timing right around TDC (w/in 5degrees) and idle around 950. I think it's a little over carbed, as it has a Thunder Series 800 Edelbrock on it.

Thanks!

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. [Re: Cudalord] #689471
05/05/10 01:22 PM
05/05/10 01:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 553
DE
Ply72rr Offline
mopar
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DE
Running rich will cause high CO readings so you're on the right track leaning it out a little. You also may want to advance your timing some as retarded timing will make CO rise. When I started wrenching for a living around 1983 my state only tested HC and retarding the timing would make HC go down but CO would rise.

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. [Re: Ply72rr] #689472
05/05/10 02:55 PM
05/05/10 02:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 695
S E Michigan
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ekim Offline
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S E Michigan
A 40 year old car needs emission tested in AZ ????/

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. [Re: ekim] #689473
05/05/10 03:01 PM
05/05/10 03:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,066
(Central) PA
Runner2go Offline
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Runner2go  Offline
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(Central) PA
Quote:

A 40 year old car needs emission tested in AZ ????/



That was my 1st thought too... can you get out of it with classic/antique plates


1966 383, 4-sp Charger 38yrs
1970 440+6, 4-sp Road Runner 36yrs
1974 360, auto Challenger 25yrs,in Family 41yrs
2003 Ram 2500 QCLB 4x4 Cummins HO
2010 5.7L R/T 6sp Challenger - Mopar10
2018 392 Daytona Charger
Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. [Re: Runner2go] #689474
05/05/10 03:07 PM
05/05/10 03:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
RodStRace Offline
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Chino Valley
Accel will not affect steady state cruise.
7 percent is RICH, was the guy jiggling the pedal?
On an Edelbrock, I'd go with thicker metering rods to lean the mains. That's what I had to do on my dad's car.

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. [Re: Runner2go] #689475
05/05/10 03:19 PM
05/05/10 03:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,693
Surface of the Sun, AZ
Hotwheelsjr Offline
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Surface of the Sun, AZ
Quote:

Quote:

A 40 year old car needs emission tested in AZ ????/



That was my 1st thought too... can you get out of it with classic/antique plates




Cudalord -- how old are you? What's preventing you from getting classic car insurance? With the likes of Hagerty, Grundy, etc you are emissions exempt. You just take proof of classic car insurance into MVD and they exempt you.

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. [Re: Cudalord] #689476
05/05/10 07:29 PM
05/05/10 07:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 127
Phoenix, Arizona
HerboldRacing Offline
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Phoenix, Arizona
What year is the Cuda? Cars 1966 and older do not need emissions testing in AZ. I got my tags for my 65 Dart with no emissions check.

Edit, additional info: You don't even need classic car insurance to be exempted from emissions if its 1966 or older.

Last edited by HerboldRacing; 05/05/10 07:31 PM.

Marvin Herbold 1973 Plymouth Duster 340 Drag Car Blog - http://www.HerboldRacing.com Videos - http://www.YouTube.com/mherbold Pictures - http://gallery.herbold-family.com/main.php?g2_itemId=10331
Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. [Re: Cudalord] #689477
05/05/10 09:14 PM
05/05/10 09:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
why on earth does a 'cuda need emissions?


[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG]
Coming soon!!!!
Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. [Re: Mr.Yuck] #689478
05/05/10 09:42 PM
05/05/10 09:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 931
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dulcich Offline
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Quote:

why on earth does a 'cuda need emissions?




Listen, pal, he is not the guy writing the laws.

Sounds like you are on the right track.

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. [Re: dulcich] #689479
05/05/10 09:47 PM
05/05/10 09:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 233
NH
Fastback67 Offline
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Fastback67  Offline
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Emissions testing... What's that?

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. [Re: Fastback67] #689480
05/06/10 01:12 AM
05/06/10 01:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 659
Boise Idaho
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Boise Chall Offline
mopar
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Boise Idaho
I'm in Boise Idaho and we don't have to emission test anything made before 1981. That's great for me because in my opinion they stopped making cool cars in the mid 70's. My 92 Vette gets cheated thru every year and now we only have to do them every other year. Somebody here has to know how to cheat them thru in Arizona without having to pay the test guy off.

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. [Re: Ply72rr] #689481
05/06/10 06:57 AM
05/06/10 06:57 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,386
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
I Live Here
Dragula  Offline
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Emissions on a Cuda, [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean]!!!! You live in Arizona, what the heck is going on out there? How is retro active emissions even legal? It wasn't required back then, and it shouldn't be now. Note to self, never move to Idiotzona.

Disconnect the accelerator pump shot entirely...Then reconnect it for the drive home. Other than that, you could switch to E85, but you mentioned you weren't willing to do so.


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. [Re: Dragula] #689482
05/06/10 08:26 AM
05/06/10 08:26 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 242
midwest
I
intragration Offline
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intragration  Offline
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midwest
Run the tank a little low, add a bunch of Heet, take the test. Fill it up immediately after. I've passed like this with several cars, before they got sane in Illinois and stopped all testing on pre-'96 cars.

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. [Re: Boise Chall] #689483
05/06/10 08:32 AM
05/06/10 08:32 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,109
Hiram, Georgia
474218 Offline
super stock
474218  Offline
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Hiram, Georgia
My 1984 Omni GLH is "emission exempt" here in Georgia, as all cars 25 years old or older.

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. [Re: intragration] #689484
05/06/10 10:04 AM
05/06/10 10:04 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,954
Blairsden, CA
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Triggerfish Offline
top fuel
Triggerfish  Offline
top fuel
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,954
Blairsden, CA
I have to smog my 70 Hemi Challenger every year, here in Reno, NV. 1967 & back are exempt. With a big cam, before I installed the single plane Stage 5 intake & Eddy Performers, I had to lean it out, empty the tank, put 1 gal alcohol to 2 gallons of gas &run it off the back carb to pass. Last yr I rebuilt the Hemi & took the carb/MSD receipts to the DMV emissions lab & got a waiver for the year. THis yr I switched to Thunders & took those receipts to the lab. Good thing they're Mopar guys, too. Your cam probably isn't huge or has a lot of overlap, so I agree if you fatten your metering rods & mess w/ timing, you'll pass. Do you know someone w/ an air-fuel sniffer that can help dial in your carb? Good luck & at least you don't have two carbs to mess with.

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. [Re: Triggerfish] #689485
05/06/10 10:16 AM
05/06/10 10:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 227
Scottsdale, AZ
Cudalord Offline OP
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Cudalord  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 227
Scottsdale, AZ
Thanks for the info. This post went a little off subject, but I appreciate the suggestions. I was not really willing to go classic car insurance/registration on the car because from my understanding, that is limited insurance for "show cars". I could be wrong? This car is driven at least 5 times per week and I want to pass emissions not only for the sake of the environment, but to ensure the car isn't running too rich either. I don't think the emission requirements for this car are strict by any means.

Thanks everyone for your input! Trying again next week after the adjustments and we'll see how it does.

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. [Re: Cudalord] #689486
05/06/10 12:20 PM
05/06/10 12:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
RodStRace Offline
I Live Here
RodStRace  Offline
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Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
Glad you got the right stuff. Please don't take the following as a personal insult, although it is aimed at your car's current tune.

For all of you complaining about emissions and reto testing, a loaded car (IE, driving down the road at 25-35 MPH) should be at 4% or less. It really should be ~2.5% to be happy. The way his car is running, it's probably got black plugs and carboned up chambers. It's running like a fat pig. By making him check the emissions, he now knows that the carb needed tuning. The thing will start, run and accelerate better, get better mileage and even have the side benefit of putting out less junk. We all whine about big brother, but this is why they check.

Again, I didn't want to pick on cudalord, but running around at 7 percent is part of the reason these checks were instituted.

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. [Re: RodStRace] #689487
05/06/10 02:43 PM
05/06/10 02:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 242
midwest
I
intragration Offline
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intragration  Offline
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midwest
Quote:

The thing will start, run and accelerate better, get better mileage and even have the side benefit of putting out less junk. We all whine about big brother, but this is why they check.




I totally disagree with this. The reason they check is because they want to control every aspect of your life, from cradle to grave. It's not big brother's job to make sure a 40 year old car is tuned up right. Our cars constitute probably .01% of the total miles driven every year in this country. Personally, I would rather find a way to defeat the test than comply, even if it meant my car was running less-than-optimally. It's my car, I'll run it how I want, and I don't want my tax dollars coming back tell me what I ought to do.

As for insurance, as long as you comply with the requirements for registering as an antique vehicle, most (many? some?) insurance companies won't even ask questions. In Illinois, to have antique plates, you need to sign a form that indicates you only drive to or from shows, for service, or for "demonstrations". What's a demonstration? I drove it to work today to demonstrate it to my co-workers? I drove it to the restaurant to demonstrate it to my friends? I'm not using one of the specialty brand insurance companies, it's a regular well-known Illinois company.

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. [Re: intragration] #689488
05/06/10 03:21 PM
05/06/10 03:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,472
Overland Park, KS.
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Joshs68 Offline
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Posts: 1,472
Overland Park, KS.
It's not like it hurts to have it fine tuned and crisp so even if some find it unnecessary it will probably run better.

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. [Re: Joshs68] #689489
05/06/10 03:51 PM
05/06/10 03:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
RodStRace Offline
I Live Here
RodStRace  Offline
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Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
intragration,

I don't disagree with your point either.
The contribution from pre 1980 vehicles is a tiny portion. I completely agree that they should be left alone. However, it is in all of our best interest to make sure that we are running clean and crisp, not any darn way we want.
A little history here; The first emissions equipment (PCV) was a good thing, much better than road draft tubes. Better for the engine and the air. It grew from there, and there are still guys that try to just run breathers with no PCV on the street.

There were a lot of bad ideas, poor equipment, performance robbing mods and big brother tactics that have given "smog" a bad name for all gearheads. That continures, and as we all know, a bureaucracy NEVER shrinks when it's usefullness is past. They have 2 goals; protect themselves and grow first, and whatever they were assigned to do a distant second. On the other hand, there are at least twice as many cars on the road in LA as there were in the 70s, and the air is cleaner. That is what the laws, bad as they can be, have done in a real messy place, smog-wise.

I know that all of us gearheads must stick together or we will be divided and conquered. I only joke about Chevy guys and Ford guys, even the ricers. We are all the same to most of the public and the legislators. But if you are driving around looking like a diesel on acceleration, you are the enemy, because your actions are hurting all of us.







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