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My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load.

Posted By: Cudalord

My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. - 05/05/10 04:47 PM

Everything else passed with flying colors, and I just wanted a few suggestions before I started making adjustments. I'm not looking for a quick fix like adding heat to the gas or an additive or anything like that.

Here are the readings:

HC Loaded - 184 (450 standard)
HC Idle - 270 (450 standard)
CO Loaded - 7.24 (3.75 standard)
CO Idle - 3.75 (5.0 standard)

7.24 seems awfully high to me. Here's the steps I was going to take initially:

1. Bump Accelerator pump down to lowest setting.
2. Step up the secondary rod to the next leanest

Any other suggestions? Before I took it in I had the heads rebuilt with new seals, replaced head gaskets, spark plugs. Set timing right around TDC (w/in 5degrees) and idle around 950. I think it's a little over carbed, as it has a Thunder Series 800 Edelbrock on it.

Thanks!
Posted By: Ply72rr

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. - 05/05/10 05:22 PM

Running rich will cause high CO readings so you're on the right track leaning it out a little. You also may want to advance your timing some as retarded timing will make CO rise. When I started wrenching for a living around 1983 my state only tested HC and retarding the timing would make HC go down but CO would rise.
Posted By: ekim

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. - 05/05/10 06:55 PM

A 40 year old car needs emission tested in AZ ????/
Posted By: Runner2go

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. - 05/05/10 07:01 PM

Quote:

A 40 year old car needs emission tested in AZ ????/



That was my 1st thought too... can you get out of it with classic/antique plates
Posted By: RodStRace

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. - 05/05/10 07:07 PM

Accel will not affect steady state cruise.
7 percent is RICH, was the guy jiggling the pedal?
On an Edelbrock, I'd go with thicker metering rods to lean the mains. That's what I had to do on my dad's car.
Posted By: Hotwheelsjr

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. - 05/05/10 07:19 PM

Quote:

Quote:

A 40 year old car needs emission tested in AZ ????/



That was my 1st thought too... can you get out of it with classic/antique plates




Cudalord -- how old are you? What's preventing you from getting classic car insurance? With the likes of Hagerty, Grundy, etc you are emissions exempt. You just take proof of classic car insurance into MVD and they exempt you.
Posted By: HerboldRacing

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. - 05/05/10 11:29 PM

What year is the Cuda? Cars 1966 and older do not need emissions testing in AZ. I got my tags for my 65 Dart with no emissions check.

Edit, additional info: You don't even need classic car insurance to be exempted from emissions if its 1966 or older.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. - 05/06/10 01:14 AM

why on earth does a 'cuda need emissions?
Posted By: dulcich

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. - 05/06/10 01:42 AM

Quote:

why on earth does a 'cuda need emissions?




Listen, pal, he is not the guy writing the laws.

Sounds like you are on the right track.
Posted By: Fastback67

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. - 05/06/10 01:47 AM

Emissions testing... What's that?
Posted By: Boise Chall

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. - 05/06/10 05:12 AM

I'm in Boise Idaho and we don't have to emission test anything made before 1981. That's great for me because in my opinion they stopped making cool cars in the mid 70's. My 92 Vette gets cheated thru every year and now we only have to do them every other year. Somebody here has to know how to cheat them thru in Arizona without having to pay the test guy off.
Posted By: Dragula

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. - 05/06/10 10:57 AM

Emissions on a Cuda, [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean]!!!! You live in Arizona, what the heck is going on out there? How is retro active emissions even legal? It wasn't required back then, and it shouldn't be now. Note to self, never move to Idiotzona.

Disconnect the accelerator pump shot entirely...Then reconnect it for the drive home. Other than that, you could switch to E85, but you mentioned you weren't willing to do so.
Posted By: intragration

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. - 05/06/10 12:26 PM

Run the tank a little low, add a bunch of Heet, take the test. Fill it up immediately after. I've passed like this with several cars, before they got sane in Illinois and stopped all testing on pre-'96 cars.
Posted By: 474218

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. - 05/06/10 12:32 PM

My 1984 Omni GLH is "emission exempt" here in Georgia, as all cars 25 years old or older.
Posted By: Triggerfish

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. - 05/06/10 02:04 PM

I have to smog my 70 Hemi Challenger every year, here in Reno, NV. 1967 & back are exempt. With a big cam, before I installed the single plane Stage 5 intake & Eddy Performers, I had to lean it out, empty the tank, put 1 gal alcohol to 2 gallons of gas &run it off the back carb to pass. Last yr I rebuilt the Hemi & took the carb/MSD receipts to the DMV emissions lab & got a waiver for the year. THis yr I switched to Thunders & took those receipts to the lab. Good thing they're Mopar guys, too. Your cam probably isn't huge or has a lot of overlap, so I agree if you fatten your metering rods & mess w/ timing, you'll pass. Do you know someone w/ an air-fuel sniffer that can help dial in your carb? Good luck & at least you don't have two carbs to mess with.
Posted By: Cudalord

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. - 05/06/10 02:16 PM

Thanks for the info. This post went a little off subject, but I appreciate the suggestions. I was not really willing to go classic car insurance/registration on the car because from my understanding, that is limited insurance for "show cars". I could be wrong? This car is driven at least 5 times per week and I want to pass emissions not only for the sake of the environment, but to ensure the car isn't running too rich either. I don't think the emission requirements for this car are strict by any means.

Thanks everyone for your input! Trying again next week after the adjustments and we'll see how it does.
Posted By: RodStRace

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. - 05/06/10 04:20 PM

Glad you got the right stuff. Please don't take the following as a personal insult, although it is aimed at your car's current tune.

For all of you complaining about emissions and reto testing, a loaded car (IE, driving down the road at 25-35 MPH) should be at 4% or less. It really should be ~2.5% to be happy. The way his car is running, it's probably got black plugs and carboned up chambers. It's running like a fat pig. By making him check the emissions, he now knows that the carb needed tuning. The thing will start, run and accelerate better, get better mileage and even have the side benefit of putting out less junk. We all whine about big brother, but this is why they check.

Again, I didn't want to pick on cudalord, but running around at 7 percent is part of the reason these checks were instituted.
Posted By: intragration

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. - 05/06/10 06:43 PM

Quote:

The thing will start, run and accelerate better, get better mileage and even have the side benefit of putting out less junk. We all whine about big brother, but this is why they check.




I totally disagree with this. The reason they check is because they want to control every aspect of your life, from cradle to grave. It's not big brother's job to make sure a 40 year old car is tuned up right. Our cars constitute probably .01% of the total miles driven every year in this country. Personally, I would rather find a way to defeat the test than comply, even if it meant my car was running less-than-optimally. It's my car, I'll run it how I want, and I don't want my tax dollars coming back tell me what I ought to do.

As for insurance, as long as you comply with the requirements for registering as an antique vehicle, most (many? some?) insurance companies won't even ask questions. In Illinois, to have antique plates, you need to sign a form that indicates you only drive to or from shows, for service, or for "demonstrations". What's a demonstration? I drove it to work today to demonstrate it to my co-workers? I drove it to the restaurant to demonstrate it to my friends? I'm not using one of the specialty brand insurance companies, it's a regular well-known Illinois company.
Posted By: Joshs68

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. - 05/06/10 07:21 PM

It's not like it hurts to have it fine tuned and crisp so even if some find it unnecessary it will probably run better.
Posted By: RodStRace

Re: My 440 Cuda just failed emissions for High CO at Load. - 05/06/10 07:51 PM

intragration,

I don't disagree with your point either.
The contribution from pre 1980 vehicles is a tiny portion. I completely agree that they should be left alone. However, it is in all of our best interest to make sure that we are running clean and crisp, not any darn way we want.
A little history here; The first emissions equipment (PCV) was a good thing, much better than road draft tubes. Better for the engine and the air. It grew from there, and there are still guys that try to just run breathers with no PCV on the street.

There were a lot of bad ideas, poor equipment, performance robbing mods and big brother tactics that have given "smog" a bad name for all gearheads. That continures, and as we all know, a bureaucracy NEVER shrinks when it's usefullness is past. They have 2 goals; protect themselves and grow first, and whatever they were assigned to do a distant second. On the other hand, there are at least twice as many cars on the road in LA as there were in the 70s, and the air is cleaner. That is what the laws, bad as they can be, have done in a real messy place, smog-wise.

I know that all of us gearheads must stick together or we will be divided and conquered. I only joke about Chevy guys and Ford guys, even the ricers. We are all the same to most of the public and the legislators. But if you are driving around looking like a diesel on acceleration, you are the enemy, because your actions are hurting all of us.
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