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Re: A "rulebook" question about safety harnesses.
[Re: StrokerPost]
#687793
05/03/10 11:23 PM
05/03/10 11:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
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Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
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Assuming we are talking about ET/handicap classes, according to the NHRA 2010 book, NO. A roll bar is not required untill 11.49 or quicker and the harness is "required" when a car is required to have a bar. 
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Re: A "rulebook" question about safety harnesses.
[Re: pro6pakRR]
#687795
05/03/10 11:26 PM
05/03/10 11:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
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Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
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Quote:
If it has a bar it has to have harness
Not exactly. If it's required to have a bar it needs a harness. If you happen to have a bar in a car not going fast enough to require one you can use stock seat belts or even a 5 yr old harness 
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Re: A "rulebook" question about safety harnesses.
[Re: 66coronet]
#687797
05/04/10 11:28 AM
05/04/10 11:28 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
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yea what the rule is and what your tech guy says often differ. we had one up hear saying 11.00 cars with 10 point bars had to have window net and that is not the rule??
Last edited by Dodgem; 05/04/10 11:29 AM.
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Re: A "rulebook" question about safety harnesses.
[Re: Bad Boy]
#687801
05/04/10 01:09 PM
05/04/10 01:09 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
RemCharger
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
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Quote:
The way it was explained to me by NHRA Tech is that if you have the equipment in the car, even if it's not required, then it has to comply with the rules for the equipment. If the car is not required to have a roll bar, but it does, the roll bar has to comply with the rules. Those rules say that the seat must be attached to the roll bar and the harness must also be attached and meet SFI 16-1 requirements.
After market seats only.
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Re: A "rulebook" question about safety harnesses.
[Re: 66coronet]
#687803
05/04/10 01:52 PM
05/04/10 01:52 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
I would be careful with the 5yr old harness deal. That will all depend on whos tech you go through. I took an out of date set of belts and put them on my passenger seat and put the new ones on the drivers seat. The car is heavy as hell anyway and I liked the way it looked. I was told to take them out of the car. "Out of date means out of date, no matter which seat they are on" That was at Atlanta Dragway, so be careful. Not saying it is right or wrong.
If you take the passenger side belt SFI tag off they
will let it slide on that seat(from what I have seen
in the past)... also like BadBoy said, if it has a
bar(even if not required) you had to play the game
like it was required... thats what the tech guy said
to me
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Re: A "rulebook" question about safety harnesses.
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#687807
05/04/10 04:51 PM
05/04/10 04:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
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Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
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Quote:
... but
some of the techs do(dont know why)
Power trip?? 
I have no problem takinng the rule book with me to tech and correcting them. I don't get argumentaive about it just calmy discuss the issue.
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Re: A "rulebook" question about safety harnesses.
[Re: WILD BILL]
#687808
05/04/10 07:19 PM
05/04/10 07:19 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,586
Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana
ProStDodge
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,586
Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana
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Quote:
I have no problem taking the rule book with me to tech and correcting them. I don't get argumentative about it just calmly discuss the issue.
Discussions welcomed!
10:5 DRIVER RESTRAINT SYSTEMS
A quick-release, 3-inch driver restraint system, with a 2-inch crotch
strap, meeting SFI Spec 16.1 is mandatory in all cars in competition
required by the rules to have a roll bar or a roll cage. (Permitted in
all other classes.) A 3-inch SFI Spec 16.5 driver restraint system is
also acceptable wherever an SFI Spec 16.1 is mandatory or
permitted. Driver restraint system must be clearly labeled as
meeting SFI Spec 16.1 and be dated by manufacturer. See Class
Requirements for additional requirements for Top Fuel and Funny
Car. SFI Spec 16.1 Y-type belts prohibited. (In cases where the
class does not require an SFI 16.1 driver restraint system, the two-year
re-certification does not apply.) System must be updated at
two-year intervals from date of manufacture. All seat-belt and
shoulder harness hardware must be originally designed to be used
with each other and produced by the same manufacturer. Cars using OEM or OEM-type
seat may route crotch strap in front of seat instead of through seat.
Only units that release all five attachment points in one motion are
permitted. When arm restraints are worn with a restraint system
that utilizes a “latch lever,” a protective cover must be installed to
prevent arm restraint from accidentally releasing the latch lever.
Protective cover not required if system utilizes “duck-bill” latch
hardware. All harness sections must be mounted to the frame,
crossmember, or reinforced mounting, and installed to limit driver’s
body travel both upward and forward. Seat belts may not be
wrapped around lower framerails. Under no circumstances are bolts
inserted through belt webbing permitted for mounting. Check
manufacturer’s instructions.
10:11 SEAT BELTS
All cars not required by Class Requirements to use SFI 16.1 driver
restraint systems must be equipped with an accepted quick-release type
driver seat belt. Belts must be securely fastened to the frame,
crossmember, or reinforced mounting so that all fittings are in a
direct line with the direction of pull. Seat belts may not be wrapped
around lower framerails. Steel castings of the type recommended by
FAA or U-bolt-type mounts are permitted. If used for installation, flat
steel plates must be a minimum of 1/4-inch thickness and have
rounded edges to prevent cutting seat belts. Under no
circumstances can belts be installed with bolts through webbing. In
all cars with fiberglass floors, a crossmember (minimum 2-inch x 2-
inch x .083-inch wall thickness square tubing) must be installed
between framerails for proper driver’s seat-belt installation.
So, to answer Ken's original question - There is NO requirement to have a harness UNLESS a roll bar or cage is REQUIRED. At 11.70, the harness is optional (unless its a convertible or t-top).
It is certainly recommended to have a 5-point harness in any car with a roll bar as it helps prevent you from banging your head even in your 14sec street car. 
And YES you may need your rule book handy to POLITELY indicate to the tech guy he may have mis-interpreted the rule. 
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Re: A "rulebook" question about safety harnesses.
[Re: ProStDodge]
#687809
05/04/10 11:17 PM
05/04/10 11:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,110
toledo, ohio
plasticfantastic
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,110
toledo, ohio
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just curious what it says in the rule book, (cant find mine right now) about cages/bars... skip over the belt section, go to the cage/roll bar section...
does it say that if you put a cage or bar in a car regardless if its needed you have to have belts?
I'll give you an example of how you cna find a rule one way in the book, and then in another section it trumps the rule you defend...
Stock eliminator, pickup (was a McCormack vehicle)... for the class it ran a rollbar wasnt required, in general regulations anything going faster then an 11.99 (at that time), had to have a bar.
Super Stock, not required to run a fire jacket in some classes, (and even pants), general regulations say that at 11.99 (at the time) and faster you need a fire jacket...
so which rule do you follow?
You put a bar or cage in the car for safety, so if something happens to you and you get in an accident do you want to be snug in there with belts and a harness, or are you ok with an ?? year old lap belt.
Spend the money get the safety equipment...
If your local track lets you get away without a belt/harness, then if youre ok with that ... good for you, but when you travel to another track and they dont let you race, you shouldnt be surprised.
Good luck with either way you decide to go.
if youre curious, call this number, ASK NHRA ... I'm sure everyone here is knowledgable, but youre getting different answers to your simple question, so call NHRA and ask them...
(626) 914-4761
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Re: A "rulebook" question about safety harnesses.
[Re: plasticfantastic]
#687810
05/04/10 11:50 PM
05/04/10 11:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,586
Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana
ProStDodge
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,586
Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana
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Doug - you are correct there are some sections, particularly in stock/super stock class racing, which will over-ride or trump E.T regs and general regs. However in this case, there is no stipulation in driver restraint, or roll bar requiring a harness with the use of a roll bar or cage in a car which is not required to have a roll bar. And yes everyone is invited to call NHRA with any questions you may have. The information I posted is correct according to all sections of the 2010 rule book, and all current revisions. Since I have recently been added to the Div #3 Safety Certifications team and am doing tech on cars at divisional races, not just local tracks, I feel I have a pretty good understanding of the rule book. Scott
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if you run quicker than 13.99 you wont have 
