Re: Are 413 Engines really all that special?
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#62509
12/12/09 02:07 PM
12/12/09 02:07 PM
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Ghost, you said it well man.
my only regret is that i now single handedly raised the price of a 413 from scrap value to $1000 for a bare block LOL! i might add though that if this topic was about the 413 MAXI engine. this whole conversasion would have taking a drastically different direction. plus looks at all these stroker smallblock engines. 4.12" or 4.18" bores with 4" & 4.25" strokes. are these nay sayers gonna deny that those engines are not worth building either?
You know it's funny how some people are quick to say things about the "outdated/offbeat mills" but they all of a sudden become stroker experts on the same mills they "trash on" in this forum. Ironic, isn't it. Hey "Ghost", thanks for staying true to the cause.
the problem here is that some of these "so called" experts get so full of themselves they adopt that "its my way or the highway" attitude. oh and btw AndyF.. if it wasn't for that "pathetic" RB 383 engine as you put it.. or the 350/361 B engines for that matter.. there wouldn't be any 413/426W/440's to write for your books and articles or voice your opinions on... how's the Small Bore/ BIIIGGG stroke smallblock coming along btw??
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Re: Are 413 Engines really all that special?
[Re: jcc]
#62511
12/12/09 03:43 PM
12/12/09 03:43 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Pacnorthcuda
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This is supposed to about engines, not people, stay OT please. Some might interpet your reply as a baiting comment, I will not quote it to allow an edit, should you reconsider
And the OP asks "Are 413 Engines really all that special?" In my opinion, no. There is nothing about them that puts them in any sort of special class, like max-wedge, hemis, 6-pack engines etc. As far as mopar engines go, they are pretty "average" by most metrics. Thats not to say they aren't a great engine--most mopar engines are! But "really all that special" ??? No
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Re: Are 413 Engines really all that special?
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#62512
12/12/09 04:08 PM
12/12/09 04:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
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maundmotorworks
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These guys are right that the 440 is a better choice to build on the basis that the aftermarket offers more stuff for it.
If you mean pistons when you say "Stuff" you are correct, otherwise EVERY other aftermarket part made and sold as a "440" part today will also fit 413's equally.
Yes, Scott, by "stuff" I meant pistons. Thank you Mr. Obvious! As for the other comments made on this thread, I can't help but notice that most people commenting on this are looking at the 413 in the drag racing world. It all comes down to application. In a naturally aspirated drag car, sure, a 440 is a better choice overall because of its displacement and aftermarket piston availability. But overall, a 413 is no more or less special that a 440 4bbl. Both are big, both make good torque numbers, but the 440 is more popular. And we all know that just because something is popular, it doesn't necessarily make it better. Look at Chevys. They're popular, but that doesn't mean they're better. Some engines are better than others depending on application and vehicle. And we all know too well that it takes a whole combination and not just the engine to make a vehicle great for its intended use.
Maund Motorworks--supplier of high performance Mopar engines--specializing in B, RB, and Hemi. www.maundmotorworks.com
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Re: Are 413 Engines really all that special?
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#62513
12/12/09 04:28 PM
12/12/09 04:28 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,109 Hiram, Georgia
474218
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And the OP asks "Are 413 Engines really all that special?" In my opinion, no. There is nothing about them that puts them in any sort of special class, like max-wedge, hemis, 6-pack engines etc. As far as mopar engines go, they are pretty "average" by most metrics. Thats not to say they aren't a great engine--most mopar engines are! But "really all that special" ??? No
I seem to remember that the first Max-Wedge engine that you say are in a special class were what, Oh yes they were 413's.
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Re: Are 413 Engines really all that special?
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#62516
12/12/09 04:41 PM
12/12/09 04:41 PM
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HYPER8oSoNic
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Harms knows what is Mo'Better. Excellent pics. Great details.
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids" "Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: Are 413 Engines really all that special?
[Re: skyhawk61]
#62519
12/12/09 05:12 PM
12/12/09 05:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
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HotRodDave
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The 413 the beach boys were refering to was the max wedge not an average 413 The average 413 is nothing special, I always think it is funny when you see a Cl add for a "rare 413" from a motor home for $4000. The 440 is more popular because it will make more TQ in an otherwise equally built motor, no rocket science there Sure the 413 had awesome TQ numbers from the factory but build a 440 with the exact same heads intake cam carb... and it will for a fact make more TQ and equal or greater HP.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Are 413 Engines really all that special?
[Re: maundmotorworks]
#62520
12/12/09 05:16 PM
12/12/09 05:16 PM
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HYPER8oSoNic
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I agree with you as far as popularity quote. Because it is popular, does not make it the "world class motor", you want it to be. Chrysler always gave the enthusiasts choices, different strokes for different folks; no pun intended. Their engines ALL run! Because you have a high-dollar 440 that is run on both street and strip, DOES NOT make me a lesser racer (read person) cause I have a "warmed-over" 383 with iron heads that runs 12.50's all day. If the guys are so sure that a single type of motor is so superior, then enroll in class type racing! Prove your motors worth. Most of us rather "run against the clock" and help others to improve their combos to run better. There is no room for the "ultimate motor", unless you are bucking for sponsorship to build them. It is called being a student and scholar in the world of automotive technology.
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids" "Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: Are 413 Engines really all that special?
[Re: 474218]
#62521
12/12/09 05:23 PM
12/12/09 05:23 PM
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Posts: 21,822 Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
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And the OP asks "Are 413 Engines really all that special?" In my opinion, no. There is nothing about them that puts them in any sort of special class, like max-wedge, hemis, 6-pack engines etc. As far as mopar engines go, they are pretty "average" by most metrics. Thats not to say they aren't a great engine--most mopar engines are! But "really all that special" ??? No
I seem to remember that the first Max-Wedge engine that you say are in a special class were what, Oh yes they were 413's.
Go back to the original post--are we talking about a max-wdege engine here? Didn't think so!
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Re: Are 413 Engines really all that special?
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#62522
12/12/09 05:33 PM
12/12/09 05:33 PM
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And the OP asks "Are 413 Engines really all that special?" In my opinion, no. There is nothing about them that puts them in any sort of special class, like max-wedge, hemis, 6-pack engines etc. As far as mopar engines go, they are pretty "average" by most metrics. Thats not to say they aren't a great engine--most mopar engines are! But "really all that special" ??? No
I seem to remember that the first Max-Wedge engine that you say are in a special class were what, Oh yes they were 413's.
Go back to the original post--are we talking about a max-wdege engine here? Didn't think so!
Nope,we threw in everything but the slant six.Let's introduce the Hyper Pack.
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Re: Are 413 Engines really all that special?
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#62524
12/12/09 05:44 PM
12/12/09 05:44 PM
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Pacnorthcuda
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Hey, Max Wedge, Long Ram, Short Ram......Like it or not they are all examples of 413's.
if only all 413's were like that then they would be special indeed!
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Re: Are 413 Engines really all that special?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#62525
12/12/09 06:01 PM
12/12/09 06:01 PM
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HYPER8oSoNic
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The 413 the beach boys were refering to was the max wedge not an average 413
The average 413 is nothing special, I always think it is funny when you see a Cl add for a "rare 413" from a motor home for $4000.
The 440 is more popular because it will make more TQ in an otherwise equally built motor, no rocket science there Sure the 413 had awesome TQ numbers from the factory but build a 440 with the exact same heads intake cam carb... and it will for a fact make more TQ and equal or greater HP.
HotRodDave, you are dead on about two of your three points, (1) Beach Boys WERE singing about a "RAM INDUCTED 413 vs. a fuelie 327 Vette. The song was named "Shutdown" (2) Average 413's aren't that special, but are becoming rare. (3) 440's may make more horsepower than 413's due to increased bore size, but are VERY close if not equal, in torque output. Remember, 90% of 413's were in chassis weighing 4500 lbs or more. Where as for 440's, a little more than half were placed in chassis of 3500-4000lbs. Naturally, the lighter car will run faster with the bigger motor in it. If the chassis were equal, the 440's advantage would narrow.
Last edited by HYPER8oSoNic; 12/12/09 06:34 PM.
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids" "Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: Are 413 Engines really all that special?
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#62526
12/12/09 06:32 PM
12/12/09 06:32 PM
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scratchnfotraction
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exactly...what was different between all the 413s? heads,cam,intakes...correct? I will run one if I ever come across a "used" one,put it to work like it was built for in a truck to pull my hotrods around. I gotta think a 413 would do something if it was tuned right,may not be the fastest around on the street...but I bet they would be chasin after it to get in front or just put it in the mud truck and use the torque to many opions out there to keep beating the horse,its not getting up that we dis-iagree I run anything mopar fellas,beets driveing brand x at any time those 413s can bait them up and the 440s can shut them down...lets work together here run what ya brung
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Re: Are 413 Engines really all that special?
[Re: scratchnfotraction]
#62527
12/12/09 06:44 PM
12/12/09 06:44 PM
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HYPER8oSoNic
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exactly...what was different between all the 413s?
heads,cam,intakes...correct?
I will run one if I ever come across a "used" one,put it to work like it was built for in a truck to pull my hotrods around.
I gotta think a 413 would do something if it was tuned right,may not be the fastest around on the street...but I bet they would be chasin after it to get in front
or just put it in the mud truck and use the torque
to many opions out there to keep beating the horse,its not getting up
that we dis-iagree
I run anything mopar fellas,beets driveing brand x at any time
those 413s can bait them up and the 440s can shut them down...lets work together here
run what ya brung
LOL. This is an original, very clever post. Count me in on the 440/413 double team. But I rather see it this way the 413 shuttin em' down and the 440 burying what did get by the 413.
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids" "Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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