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B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? #617303 02/18/10 09:24 PM 02/18/10 09:24 PM
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 220 G Gearbox OP enthusiast
Gearbox OP enthusiast G Joined: May 2003 Posts: 220	With all the new CNC cylinder Head options out today, do you think the B-1's are a thing of the past for Race Motors. Seems intake options are limited, compared to todays products. Looking to spec my 500 low deck , thought about B1's but now considering others due to intake choices Indy, Eddy,all seem to be good for this power range. 800hp goal with original block on a budget.

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: Gearbox] #617304 02/18/10 09:29 PM 02/18/10 09:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,128 Salt Lake City C camastomcat top fuel
camastomcat top fuel C Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,128 Salt Lake City	Quote: With all the new CNC cylinder Head options out today, do you think the B-1's are a thing of the past for Race Motors. Seems intake options are limited, compared to todays products. Looking to spec my 500 low deck , thought about B1's but now considering others due to intake choices Indy, Eddy,all seem to be good for this power range. 800hp goal with original block on a budget. Those heads aren't even close to the B1's. B1's are good to 604 CI and over 1000HP. The -1's,SR, edelbrock RPM, or victors are not even in the same class. They work fine for a street/strip deal, but not for all out racing. And if you want to really pick up the pace, Predators or PSO's will get it done for the wedge motors. JMHO

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: Gearbox] #617305 02/18/10 09:38 PM 02/18/10 09:38 PM
Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,675 Akron, Ohio U.S.A. roadhazard master
roadhazard master Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,675 Akron, Ohio U.S.A.	The standard B1's use a Max Wedge opening and standard bolt location. Use an Indy, E'Brock Victor or even a tunnel ram B1's are Top Notch in my book. Besides try to get some personalized help and info out of the others.

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: Gearbox] #617306 02/18/10 09:38 PM 02/18/10 09:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 6,293 Rock Springs Bob_Coomer master
Bob_Coomer master Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 6,293 Rock Springs	B1's a very much a option. CNC programs are out there for these heads as well. 800 hp is doable with Indy -1's but would need full tilt porting max effort deal. Its not going to happen with 10:1 compression. My Indy engine is easily in that hp range, but its 15:1 compression, alky injected, CNC ported heads, .800 roller,but does have a cast intake etc. So it can be done. It be hard not to build 800 hp with a nice set of B1 Originals 13-14:1 compression and cast intake, and Dominator carb, .750-.800 lift solid roller. I dont want to sound like a spoil sport, but 800hp with a stock block is really, really pushing it. A stock block of tis caliber would need to be girdled, and aftermarket main caps, hard block etc... But at this point a aftermarket block can be purchased for the same money and actually live. [color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color] [color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: camastomcat] #617307 02/18/10 09:39 PM 02/18/10 09:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,106 Quebec, Canada D Diablo super stock
Diablo super stock D Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,106 Quebec, Canada	The b1's were done right the first time and are twice the head of the ones you mentioned. Now the the CNC technology and stuff the B1's are even better. Like mentioned they are good for a 600ci engine and 1000+hp. Those other heads will never see that. If you want to move up more in the hp range move up to the b1'MC's, b1-PSO's and if you want all out you will be looking at either the b1-TS or Predator heads. What ever you hp goal is b1 has it covered!!!

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: Gearbox] #617308 02/18/10 09:46 PM 02/18/10 09:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,051 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,051 Oregon	Well B1 original heads only have the one intake that fits and it only really fits on low deck blocks so that is a limitation. But it is a very good intake design that is very capable of supporting a bunch of power. Only issue I see with the B1 design is that those heads make more power than is really safe for a production low deck block. And the aftermarket isn't making cast iron low deck blocks. Someone either needs to design a RB version of the intake manifold or someone needs to do a low deck mega block. One or the other would open up a whole new chapter for Mopar race motors.

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: AndyF] #617309 02/18/10 09:56 PM 02/18/10 09:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,667 Arizona C Chris'sBarracuda master
Chris'sBarracuda master C Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,667 Arizona	Quote: Well B1 original heads only have the one intake that fits and it only really fits on low deck blocks so that is a limitation. But it is a very good intake design that is very capable of supporting a bunch of power. Only issue I see with the B1 design is that those heads make more power than is really safe for a production low deck block. And the aftermarket isn't making cast iron low deck blocks. Someone either needs to design a RB version of the intake manifold or someone needs to do a low deck mega block. One or the other would open up a whole new chapter for Mopar race motors. I call BS on that one.. Stop trying to scare potential users away. Gecker has been using 400 blocks for the duration of these heads, making 900+hp constantly.. Very few failures in nearly 20 years.. Just do everything right like anyone would do on higher hp engines and you will have no problems.. Chris..

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: camastomcat] #617310 02/18/10 10:24 PM 02/18/10 10:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 19,377 Las Vegas Al_Alguire I Live Here
Al_Alguire I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 19,377 Las Vegas	Ummmmm.......B1 heads are from from a thing of the past. They are something that many folks seem to be intimidated by or misinformed about. They have been a round for a number of years and have always worked very well. Although they seem to be a mistery to many Mopar loyalists. As someone stated earlier you can dang near fall out of bed and make 800+hp. IMO if you are making less than 850 with a set of originals with minor porting you are doing something wrong. In my book they are the best bang for the buck out there in a Mopar head and the B1 intake is the best piece out there for a Mopar cast single four intake. "I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know." "It's never wrong to do the right thing"

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: roadhazard] #617311 02/18/10 11:15 PM 02/18/10 11:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,840 Flint, Michigan B1Fish540 master
B1Fish540 master Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,840 Flint, Michigan	Quote: The standard B1's use a Max Wedge opening and standard bolt location. Use an Indy, E'Brock Victor or even a tunnel ram B1's are Top Notch in my book. Besides try to get some personalized help and info out of the others. No, the b1 intake port is bigger than a max Wedge, by quite a bit. So the only intake that will work is the B1 cast dominator intake. Which is pretty good, since it is the best flowing cast intake anyway. Also, Andy, the B1 intake is used on RBs all the time with the spacers Koffels provides. The B1, B1-MC and PSO are the best flowing inline valve heads period. The OP needs to do more research.

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: B1Fish540] #617312 02/18/10 11:27 PM 02/18/10 11:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 660 San Diego formula S mopar
formula S mopar Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 660 San Diego	Quote: Quote: The standard B1's use a Max Wedge opening and standard bolt location. Use an Indy, E'Brock Victor or even a tunnel ram B1's are Top Notch in my book. Besides try to get some personalized help and info out of the others. No, the b1 intake port is bigger than a max Wedge, by quite a bit. So the only intake that will work is the B1 cast dominator intake. Which is pretty good, since it is the best flowing cast intake anyway. Also, Andy, the B1 intake is used on RBs all the time with the spacers Koffels provides. The B1, B1-MC and PSO are the best flowing inline valve heads period. The OP needs to do more research. I'll bet he's talking about b1 bs heads

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: AndyF] #617313 02/18/10 11:40 PM 02/18/10 11:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,590 Indy J joshking440 Lunch is on me!
joshking440 Lunch is on me! J Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,590 Indy	Quote: Well B1 original heads only have the one intake that fits and it only really fits on low deck blocks so that is a limitation. But it is a very good intake design that is very capable of supporting a bunch of power. Only issue I see with the B1 design is that those heads make more power than is really safe for a production low deck block. And the aftermarket isn't making cast iron low deck blocks. Someone either needs to design a RB version of the intake manifold or someone needs to do a low deck mega block. One or the other would open up a whole new chapter for Mopar race motors. Andy, not to pretend to know something, but I do know something. There is a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy, who has a aftermarket lowdeck cast block that is getting ready to meet a band saw to check for beef where beef needs to be that will open a whole new can of whoop a$$ for b-1 heads...if your picking up what im putting down Last edited by joshking440; 02/18/10 11:41 PM.

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: joshking440] #617314 02/18/10 11:47 PM 02/18/10 11:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,015 Down South DaKuda super stock
DaKuda super stock Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,015 Down South	I call BS on two things: 1. B1 heads are outdated....BS.....AWESOME heads 2. INDY 440-1 are not a good race head....BS....Ive seen them in the 8's quite often. This post is how crap gets started. If anyone has a set of OUTDATED B1 heads wanting to trade for a set of these.....RACE.....Edelbrock RPM's (as stated) Im MORE than willing to trade for your B1's....I can make do with them.....

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: Gearbox] #617315 02/19/10 12:12 AM 02/19/10 12:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,486 SoCal Brian Hafliger master
Brian Hafliger master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,486 SoCal	Quote: With all the new CNC cylinder Head options out today, do you think the B-1's are a thing of the past for Race Motors. Seems intake options are limited, compared to todays products. Looking to spec my 500 low deck , thought about B1's but now considering others due to intake choices Indy, Eddy,all seem to be good for this power range. 800hp goal with original block on a budget. What kind of a budget? 800HP should not be built cheap by any means...that's like wipe'n your azz before you chit!! Read this thread I did on B1's.... https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1 Brian Hafliger

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: joshking440] #617316 02/19/10 12:17 AM 02/19/10 12:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,051 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,051 Oregon	Yes, I'm aware that low deck cast iron blocks are being seriously looked at but there isn't one on the market today. There are low deck aluminum blocks which would work great with B1 heads but the price starts to get higher than the budget of most on here. I'm a big fan of the B1 heads, they are a fantastic design considering how old that design is. It seems odd to me that nobody ever did a RB intake manifold so the heads would be a cleaner fit onto the mega-block. The 4.50 bore cross bolted blocks have been around for a long time now and those seem to be a perfect fit for a B1 head. Guess Koffel didn't want to make the investment into a new intake pattern and evidently neither did anyone else.

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: DaKuda] #617317 02/19/10 01:01 AM 02/19/10 01:01 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 6,293 Rock Springs Bob_Coomer master
Bob_Coomer master Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 6,293 Rock Springs	Quote: I call BS on two things: 1. B1 heads are outdated....BS.....AWESOME heads 2. INDY 440-1 are not a good race head....BS....Ive seen them in the 8's quite often. This post is how crap gets started. If anyone has a set of OUTDATED B1 heads wanting to trade for a set of these.....RACE.....Edelbrock RPM's (as stated) Im MORE than willing to trade for your B1's....I can make do with them..... I agree.. I have been 144 mph in the 8th with those street heads Imagine what it would do with some race parts and a 3/4 race cam [color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color] [color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: Bob_Coomer] #617318 02/19/10 01:14 AM 02/19/10 01:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 19,377 Las Vegas Al_Alguire I Live Here
Al_Alguire I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 19,377 Las Vegas	Quote: Quote: I agree.. I have been 144 mph in the 8th with those street heads Imagine what it would do with some race parts and a 3/4 race cam Pipe racks dont count, racecars have doors Wonder how fast I could run with an engine on a stick "I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know." "It's never wrong to do the right thing"

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: Al_Alguire] #617319 02/19/10 01:48 AM 02/19/10 01:48 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 6,293 Rock Springs Bob_Coomer master
Bob_Coomer master Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 6,293 Rock Springs	Quote: Quote: Quote: I agree.. I have been 144 mph in the 8th with those street heads Imagine what it would do with some race parts and a 3/4 race cam Pipe racks dont count, racecars have doors Wonder how fast I could run with an engine on a stick Hey no kick'n a guy when he's down.. But your right, its long gone....that thing wasnt no lite weight...neither was the driver though. [color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color] [color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: Bob_Coomer] #617320 02/19/10 05:47 AM 02/19/10 05:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,933 Finalnd, Perkele J jyrki master
jyrki master J Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,933 Finalnd, Perkele	Anyone ever comapred flow against port area between Indys and B1's? Plynouth VIP '67 TT IC EFI

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: jyrki] #617321 02/19/10 08:14 AM 02/19/10 08:14 AM
Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 694 Michigan S Super Scamp mopar
Super Scamp mopar S Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 694 Michigan	Rank and File!! here's the chain of command on the Heads issue From the bottom to the top.. Cast stock heads with a port job. Aluminum heads Eddies,Edelbrock,MP,440 Source all above with port work. Indy cast, with port work Indy Aluminum with port work then B1 with port work and the current all mighty PREDATOR!!1 Now the rank and file the cost just keeps going up as you upgrade for better flow.. 5816191-P8210035.JPG (97 downloads) Just One Man's Opinion Mopar Mafia Racing

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: formula S] #617322 02/19/10 10:02 AM 02/19/10 10:02 AM
Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,675 Akron, Ohio U.S.A. roadhazard master
roadhazard master Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,675 Akron, Ohio U.S.A.	Quote: Quote: Quote: The standard B1's use a Max Wedge opening and standard bolt location. Use an Indy, E'Brock Victor or even a tunnel ram B1's are Top Notch in my book. Besides try to get some personalized help and info out of the others. No, the b1 intake port is bigger than a max Wedge, by quite a bit. So the only intake that will work is the B1 cast dominator intake. Which is pretty good, since it is the best flowing cast intake anyway. Also, Andy, the B1 intake is used on RBs all the time with the spacers Koffels provides. The B1, B1-MC and PSO are the best flowing inline valve heads period. The OP needs to do more research. I'll bet he's talking about b1 bs heads I stand corrected, thinking about 1 and typing another FWIW the BS heads will replace the Indy-1's currently sitting in my garage.

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: AndyF] #617323 02/19/10 10:06 AM 02/19/10 10:06 AM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 232 Lansing, MI M MuscleMike enthusiast
MuscleMike enthusiast M Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 232 Lansing, MI	Andy: The B1 RB manifold situation is being "addressed." I'm not at liberty to say but......stay tuned! Mike @MM

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: MuscleMike] #617324 02/19/10 10:47 AM 02/19/10 10:47 AM
Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,840 Flint, Michigan B1Fish540 master
B1Fish540 master Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,840 Flint, Michigan	IIRC, somebody will be coming out with an intake to allow B1s in NSS.

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: Super Scamp] #617325 02/19/10 10:51 AM 02/19/10 10:51 AM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,441 Mo. S supercomp master
supercomp master S Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,441 Mo.	Quote: Rank and File!! here's the chain of command on the Heads issue From the bottom to the top.. Cast stock heads with a port job. Aluminum heads Eddies,Edelbrock,MP,440 Source all above with port work. Indy cast, with port work Indy Aluminum with port work then B1 with port work and the current all mighty PREDATOR!!1 Now the rank and file the cost just keeps going up as you upgrade for better flow.. Do you have a Mopar in that corvette? If so

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: MuscleMike] #617326 02/19/10 11:17 AM 02/19/10 11:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,051 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,051 Oregon	Quote: Andy: The B1 RB manifold situation is being "addressed." I'm not at liberty to say but......stay tuned! Mike @MM Good news. It was always one of those "obvious" holes in the aftermarket that just never seemed to get filled. Now if someone would just do a dual plane max wedge intake with a 4500 flange!

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: Super Scamp] #617327 02/19/10 12:23 PM 02/19/10 12:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,840 Flint, Michigan B1Fish540 master
B1Fish540 master Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,840 Flint, Michigan	Quote: Rank and File!! here's the chain of command on the Heads issue From the bottom to the top.. Cast stock heads with a port job. Aluminum heads Eddies,Edelbrock,MP,440 Source all above with port work. Indy cast, with port work Indy Aluminum with port work then B1 with port work and the current all mighty PREDATOR!!1 Now the rank and file the cost just keeps going up as you upgrade for better flow.. There is one head that flows nearly the same as(or better than) B1s and it deserves to be mentioned although it is no longer made...the "Brewer". fred Brewers design was based on the AMC pro stock head and has longer/narrower ruuners and longer valves than a B1. Some of these features are in the B1-PSO(pro stock option) now sold by Best Machine.

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: AndyF] #617328 02/19/10 12:30 PM 02/19/10 12:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,840 Flint, Michigan B1Fish540 master
B1Fish540 master Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,840 Flint, Michigan	Quote: Quote: Andy: The B1 RB manifold situation is being "addressed." I'm not at liberty to say but......stay tuned! Mike @MM Good news. It was always one of those "obvious" holes in the aftermarket that just never seemed to get filled. Now if someone would just do a dual plane max wedge intake with a 4500 flange! I dont know why anyone would want something like that, Andy. It would not be legal for NSS. Sheet metal TR would get the job done better.

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: AndyF] #617329 02/19/10 05:04 PM 02/19/10 05:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 232 Lansing, MI M MuscleMike enthusiast
MuscleMike enthusiast M Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 232 Lansing, MI	Dual plane with a 4500 flange????? gonna be waiting an AWWWWWWWWWWEEFUL long time for that one Andy!

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: MuscleMike] #617330 02/19/10 08:22 PM 02/19/10 08:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,051 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,051 Oregon	The C-454 was fairly popular back in the day. I think it would be even more popular these days given the number of 500+ inch street motors running around. The Indy DP can be reworked for a 4500 flange so that is about the only option for a guy with a big street motor who wants to run a Dominator. Seems to me it wouldn't cost much of anything for Indy to produce a 4500 verison of the DP intake. A very minor change to the casting would add the material and then it is just a super easy change to the CAD file to produce either 4150 or 4500 versions. A little bit extra inventory on hand and people have a whole new option.

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: AndyF] #617331 02/19/10 08:49 PM 02/19/10 08:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,840 Flint, Michigan B1Fish540 master
B1Fish540 master Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,840 Flint, Michigan	Quote: The C-454 was fairly popular back in the day. I think it would be even more popular these days given the number of 500+ inch street motors running around. The Indy DP can be reworked for a 4500 flange so that is about the only option for a guy with a big street motor who wants to run a Dominator. Seems to me it wouldn't cost much of anything for Indy to produce a 4500 verison of the DP intake. A very minor change to the casting would add the material and then it is just a super easy change to the CAD file to produce either 4150 or 4500 versions. A little bit extra inventory on hand and people have a whole new option. well, i like the way you think, Andy..a dual dom B1 street motor? now thats thinkin out side the box!

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? [Re: B1Fish540] #617332 02/19/10 09:05 PM 02/19/10 09:05 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: IIRC, somebody will be coming out with an intake to allow B1s in NSS. ill be going with 800 edelbrocks on my 605 b1 ts motor. 5817591-B1MOTOR605CI2NDSET014.JPG (66 downloads)

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