B--1 Originals a thing of the past ?

Posted By: Gearbox

B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 01:24 AM

With all the new CNC cylinder Head options out today, do you think the B-1's are a thing of the past for Race Motors. Seems intake options are limited, compared to todays products. Looking to spec my 500 low deck , thought about B1's but now considering others due to intake choices Indy, Eddy,all seem to be good for this power range.
800hp goal with original block on a budget.

Posted By: camastomcat

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 01:29 AM

Quote:

With all the new CNC cylinder Head options out today, do you think the B-1's are a thing of the past for Race Motors. Seems intake options are limited, compared to todays products. Looking to spec my 500 low deck , thought about B1's but now considering others due to intake choices Indy, Eddy,all seem to be good for this power range.
800hp goal with original block on a budget.

Those heads aren't even close to the B1's. B1's are good to 604 CI and over 1000HP. The -1's,SR, edelbrock RPM, or victors are not even in the same class. They work fine for a street/strip deal, but not for all out racing. And if you want to really pick up the pace, Predators or PSO's will get it done for the wedge motors. JMHO

Posted By: roadhazard

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 01:38 AM

The standard B1's use a Max Wedge opening and standard bolt location.

Use an Indy, E'Brock Victor or even a tunnel ram

B1's are Top Notch in my book. Besides try to get some personalized help and info out of the others.

Posted By: Bob_Coomer

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 01:38 AM

B1's a very much a option. CNC programs are out there for these heads as well. 800 hp is doable with Indy -1's but would need full tilt porting max effort deal. Its not going to happen with 10:1 compression.
My Indy engine is easily in that hp range, but its 15:1 compression, alky injected, CNC ported heads, .800 roller,but does have a cast intake etc. So it can be done.
It be hard not to build 800 hp with a nice set of B1 Originals 13-14:1 compression and cast intake, and Dominator carb, .750-.800 lift solid roller.
I dont want to sound like a spoil sport, but 800hp with a stock block is really, really pushing it.
A stock block of tis caliber would need to be girdled, and aftermarket main caps, hard block etc...
But at this point a aftermarket block can be purchased for the same money and actually live.

Posted By: Diablo

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 01:39 AM

The b1's were done right the first time and are twice the head of the ones you mentioned. Now the the CNC technology and stuff the B1's are even better. Like mentioned they are good for a 600ci engine and 1000+hp. Those other heads will never see that.

If you want to move up more in the hp range move up to the b1'MC's, b1-PSO's and if you want all out you will be looking at either the b1-TS or Predator heads. What ever you hp goal is b1 has it covered!!!

Posted By: AndyF

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 01:46 AM

Well B1 original heads only have the one intake that fits and it only really fits on low deck blocks so that is a limitation. But it is a very good intake design that is very capable of supporting a bunch of power.

Only issue I see with the B1 design is that those heads make more power than is really safe for a production low deck block. And the aftermarket isn't making cast iron low deck blocks. Someone either needs to design a RB version of the intake manifold or someone needs to do a low deck mega block.

One or the other would open up a whole new chapter for Mopar race motors.

Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 01:56 AM

Quote:

Well B1 original heads only have the one intake that fits and it only really fits on low deck blocks so that is a limitation. But it is a very good intake design that is very capable of supporting a bunch of power.

Only issue I see with the B1 design is that those heads make more power than is really safe for a production low deck block. And the aftermarket isn't making cast iron low deck blocks. Someone either needs to design a RB version of the intake manifold or someone needs to do a low deck mega block.

One or the other would open up a whole new chapter for Mopar race motors.

I call BS on that one..

Stop trying to scare potential users away.

Gecker has been using 400 blocks for the duration of these heads, making 900+hp constantly..

Very few failures in nearly 20 years..

Just do everything right like anyone would do on higher hp engines and you will have no problems..

Chris..

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 02:24 AM

Ummmmm.......B1 heads are from from a thing of the past. They are something that many folks seem to be intimidated by or misinformed about. They have been a round for a number of years and have always worked very well. Although they seem to be a mistery to many Mopar loyalists. As someone stated earlier you can dang near fall out of bed and make 800+hp. IMO if you are making less than 850 with a set of originals with minor porting you are doing something wrong. In my book they are the best bang for the buck out there in a Mopar head and the B1 intake is the best piece out there for a Mopar cast single four intake.

Posted By: B1Fish540

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 03:15 AM

Quote:

The standard B1's use a Max Wedge opening and standard bolt location.

Use an Indy, E'Brock Victor or even a tunnel ram

B1's are Top Notch in my book. Besides try to get some personalized help and info out of the others.

No, the b1 intake port is bigger than a max Wedge, by quite a bit. So the only intake that will work is the B1 cast dominator intake. Which is pretty good, since it is the best flowing cast intake anyway.

Also, Andy, the B1 intake is used on RBs all the time with the spacers Koffels provides.

The B1, B1-MC and PSO are the best flowing inline valve heads period. The OP needs to do more research.

Posted By: formula S

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 03:27 AM

Quote:

Quote:

The standard B1's use a Max Wedge opening and standard bolt location.

Use an Indy, E'Brock Victor or even a tunnel ram

B1's are Top Notch in my book. Besides try to get some personalized help and info out of the others.

No, the b1 intake port is bigger than a max Wedge, by quite a bit. So the only intake that will work is the B1 cast dominator intake. Which is pretty good, since it is the best flowing cast intake anyway.

Also, Andy, the B1 intake is used on RBs all the time with the spacers Koffels provides.

The B1, B1-MC and PSO are the best flowing inline valve heads period. The OP needs to do more research.

I'll bet he's talking about b1 bs heads

Posted By: joshking440

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 03:40 AM

Quote:

Well B1 original heads only have the one intake that fits and it only really fits on low deck blocks so that is a limitation. But it is a very good intake design that is very capable of supporting a bunch of power.

Only issue I see with the B1 design is that those heads make more power than is really safe for a production low deck block. And the aftermarket isn't making cast iron low deck blocks. Someone either needs to design a RB version of the intake manifold or someone needs to do a low deck mega block.

One or the other would open up a whole new chapter for Mopar race motors.

Andy, not to pretend to know something, but I do know something. There is a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy, who has a aftermarket lowdeck cast block that is getting ready to meet a band saw to check for beef where beef needs to be that will open a whole new can of whoop a$$ for b-1 heads...if your picking up what im putting down

Posted By: DaKuda

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 03:47 AM

I call BS on two things:

1. B1 heads are outdated....BS.....AWESOME heads
2. INDY 440-1 are not a good race head....BS....Ive seen them in the 8's quite often.

This post is how crap gets started. If anyone has a set of OUTDATED B1 heads wanting to trade for a set of these.....RACE.....Edelbrock RPM's (as stated) Im MORE than willing to trade for your B1's....I can make do with them.....

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 04:12 AM

Quote:

With all the new CNC cylinder Head options out today, do you think the B-1's are a thing of the past for Race Motors. Seems intake options are limited, compared to todays products. Looking to spec my 500 low deck , thought about B1's but now considering others due to intake choices Indy, Eddy,all seem to be good for this power range.
800hp goal with original block on a budget.

What kind of a budget? 800HP should not be built cheap by any means...that's like wipe'n your azz before you chit!!
Read this thread I did on B1's....
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1

Posted By: AndyF

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 04:17 AM

Yes, I'm aware that low deck cast iron blocks are being seriously looked at but there isn't one on the market today. There are low deck aluminum blocks which would work great with B1 heads but the price starts to get higher than the budget of most on here.

I'm a big fan of the B1 heads, they are a fantastic design considering how old that design is. It seems odd to me that nobody ever did a RB intake manifold so the heads would be a cleaner fit onto the mega-block. The 4.50 bore cross bolted blocks have been around for a long time now and those seem to be a perfect fit for a B1 head. Guess Koffel didn't want to make the investment into a new intake pattern and evidently neither did anyone else.

Posted By: Bob_Coomer

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 05:01 AM

Quote:

I call BS on two things:

1. B1 heads are outdated....BS.....AWESOME heads
2. INDY 440-1 are not a good race head....BS....Ive seen them in the 8's quite often.

This post is how crap gets started. If anyone has a set of OUTDATED B1 heads wanting to trade for a set of these.....RACE.....Edelbrock RPM's (as stated) Im MORE than willing to trade for your B1's....I can make do with them.....

I agree..
I have been 144 mph in the 8th with those street heads

Imagine what it would do with some race parts and a 3/4 race cam

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 05:14 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I agree..
I have been 144 mph in the 8th with those street heads
Imagine what it would do with some race parts and a 3/4 race cam

Pipe racks dont count, racecars have doors Wonder how fast I could run with an engine on a stick

Posted By: Bob_Coomer

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 05:48 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I agree..
I have been 144 mph in the 8th with those street heads
Imagine what it would do with some race parts and a 3/4 race cam

Pipe racks dont count, racecars have doors Wonder how fast I could run with an engine on a stick

Hey
no kick'n a guy when he's down..
But your right, its long gone....that thing wasnt no lite weight...neither was the driver though.

Posted By: jyrki

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 09:47 AM

Anyone ever comapred flow against port area between Indys and B1's?

Posted By: Super Scamp

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 12:14 PM

Rank and File!!

here's the chain of command on the Heads issue

From the bottom to the top..
Cast stock heads with a port job.
Aluminum heads Eddies,Edelbrock,MP,440 Source
all above with port work.
Indy cast, with port work
Indy Aluminum with port work
then B1 with port work and the current all mighty
PREDATOR!!1

Now the rank and file the cost just keeps going up as you upgrade for better flow..

Posted By: roadhazard

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 02:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The standard B1's use a Max Wedge opening and standard bolt location.

Use an Indy, E'Brock Victor or even a tunnel ram

B1's are Top Notch in my book. Besides try to get some personalized help and info out of the others.

No, the b1 intake port is bigger than a max Wedge, by quite a bit. So the only intake that will work is the B1 cast dominator intake. Which is pretty good, since it is the best flowing cast intake anyway.

Also, Andy, the B1 intake is used on RBs all the time with the spacers Koffels provides.

The B1, B1-MC and PSO are the best flowing inline valve heads period. The OP needs to do more research.

I'll bet he's talking about b1 bs heads

I stand corrected, thinking about 1 and typing another

FWIW the BS heads will replace the Indy-1's currently sitting in my garage.

Posted By: MuscleMike

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 02:06 PM

Andy:

The B1 RB manifold situation is being "addressed."

I'm not at liberty to say but......stay tuned!

Mike @MM

Posted By: B1Fish540

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 02:47 PM

IIRC, somebody will be coming out with an intake to allow B1s in NSS.

Posted By: supercomp

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 02:51 PM

Quote:

Rank and File!! here's the chain of command on the Heads issue
From the bottom to the top..
Cast stock heads with a port job.
Aluminum heads Eddies,Edelbrock,MP,440 Source
all above with port work.
Indy cast, with port work
Indy Aluminum with port work
then B1 with port work and the current all mighty
PREDATOR!!1

Now the rank and file the cost just keeps going up as you upgrade for better flow..

Do you have a Mopar in that corvette? If so

Posted By: AndyF

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 03:17 PM

Quote:

Andy:

The B1 RB manifold situation is being "addressed."

I'm not at liberty to say but......stay tuned!

Mike @MM

Good news. It was always one of those "obvious" holes in the aftermarket that just never seemed to get filled. Now if someone would just do a dual plane max wedge intake with a 4500 flange!

Posted By: B1Fish540

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 04:23 PM

Quote:

Rank and File!! here's the chain of command on the Heads issue
From the bottom to the top..
Cast stock heads with a port job.
Aluminum heads Eddies,Edelbrock,MP,440 Source
all above with port work.
Indy cast, with port work
Indy Aluminum with port work
then B1 with port work and the current all mighty
PREDATOR!!1

Now the rank and file the cost just keeps going up as you upgrade for better flow..

There is one head that flows nearly the same as(or better than) B1s and it deserves to be mentioned although it is no longer made...the "Brewer". fred Brewers design was based on the AMC pro stock head and has longer/narrower ruuners and longer valves than a B1. Some of these features are in the B1-PSO(pro stock option) now sold by Best Machine.

Posted By: B1Fish540

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 04:30 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Andy:

The B1 RB manifold situation is being "addressed."

I'm not at liberty to say but......stay tuned!

Mike @MM

Good news. It was always one of those "obvious" holes in the aftermarket that just never seemed to get filled. Now if someone would just do a dual plane max wedge intake with a 4500 flange!

I dont know why anyone would want something like that, Andy. It would not be legal for NSS. Sheet metal TR would get the job done better.

Posted By: MuscleMike

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/19/10 09:04 PM

Dual plane with a 4500 flange?????

gonna be waiting an AWWWWWWWWWWEEFUL long time for that one Andy!

Posted By: AndyF

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/20/10 12:22 AM

The C-454 was fairly popular back in the day. I think it would be even more popular these days given the number of 500+ inch street motors running around.

The Indy DP can be reworked for a 4500 flange so that is about the only option for a guy with a big street motor who wants to run a Dominator.

Seems to me it wouldn't cost much of anything for Indy to produce a 4500 verison of the DP intake. A very minor change to the casting would add the material and then it is just a super easy change to the CAD file to produce either 4150 or 4500 versions. A little bit extra inventory on hand and people have a whole new option.

Posted By: B1Fish540

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/20/10 12:49 AM

Quote:

The C-454 was fairly popular back in the day. I think it would be even more popular these days given the number of 500+ inch street motors running around.

The Indy DP can be reworked for a 4500 flange so that is about the only option for a guy with a big street motor who wants to run a Dominator.

Seems to me it wouldn't cost much of anything for Indy to produce a 4500 verison of the DP intake. A very minor change to the casting would add the material and then it is just a super easy change to the CAD file to produce either 4150 or 4500 versions. A little bit extra inventory on hand and people have a whole new option.

well, i like the way you think, Andy..a dual dom B1 street motor?

now thats thinkin out side the box!

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: B--1 Originals a thing of the past ? - 02/20/10 01:05 AM

Quote:

IIRC, somebody will be coming out with an intake to allow B1s in NSS.

ill be going with 800 edelbrocks on my 605 b1 ts motor.

Attached picture 5817591-B1MOTOR605CI2NDSET014.JPG