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stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion?
#602220
02/02/10 11:48 PM
02/02/10 11:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,257
acworth / N. georgia - south e...
cheapstreetdustr
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acworth / N. georgia - south e...
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i got in a good discussion last night with a friend about deep stage-ing vrs shallow staging..
it was interesting ...although i couldn't get him to understand or agree with my philosiphy
basically..i feel/hypothisize
if you shallow stage..
1st... it gives you a "constant" or consistant point of reference to your cars location..
and can be repeated easily..with alot of accuracy or way to remove variables..
for instance ..your roll out equates to time.
lets say your roll out is 6"..
if you pull in lightly and just trip the beam going in..perfectly ..
you now have 6" ahead of you to roll before you trip the clock
but if you just pull in without discipline.
you could be 5"-4"-3" ect..from tripping the beam when you launch.
this will effect your reaction time from/according to each of these examples..
changing consistancy from @ launch/reaction time to another launch/reaction time. assuming you staged differently each of these times
next..
since the clock doesnt start until you break the beam...if you have adiquate roll-out...
technically you could start moving sooner..
have a technical advantage over the other lane.
of course youll have to time it properly as reaction time to tripping the light still applies to the other lane...
but for instance...my arguement was.
if i shallow stage with good rollout..agaist an opponent who deep stages...
i get a head start..with momentum in my favor.
his arguement was et ...is still et...?
anyone have an opinion..?
cheapst
365" Iron J heads,,3480lbs best 1.39 60ft on SS springs.10.54,124 mph ...6.67 1/8th et.average 60fts 1.46 w/ small cam &.063 no2 pill tagged & insured
[image][/image]
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Re: stage-ing advantages..whats your opinion?
[Re: cheapstreetdustr]
#602221
02/02/10 11:56 PM
02/02/10 11:56 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,257
acworth / N. georgia - south e...
cheapstreetdustr
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acworth / N. georgia - south e...
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My other aguement ..
was against deep staging a car that has a slow reaction time...or slow lauch..(like those clunker street cars that show up on the money nights...4 instance.
my point is..if the car leaves slow..
then shallow stage..or set the 2nd yellow stage the way i mention'd earlier..
by just bearly bumping in..to put the car exactly in the same spot. each time
then JUST FIND A EARLIER REFERENCE POINT to leave off of..
you will have the running start i refered to earlier...
and actually make up for a slow reacting car.
?
for instance..if you could enlarge the roll out of a slow reacting car.say from 6" to like 9"
.then leave earlier (off a good reference point...ie..2nd to last bulb)
technically you could make up for the slow reacting of you car...
and get the head start i am refering to...?
cheapst
365" Iron J heads,,3480lbs best 1.39 60ft on SS springs.10.54,124 mph ...6.67 1/8th et.average 60fts 1.46 w/ small cam &.063 no2 pill tagged & insured
[image][/image]
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Re: stage-ing advantages..whats your opinion?
[Re: jvcuda]
#602224
02/03/10 12:44 AM
02/03/10 12:44 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,512
PA
moparacer
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PA
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There are 2 points in the staging beams that you know exactly were you are at every time. When the stage light comes on, and when the stage light goes out, and you are deep.
I see guys stage then give it a few extra bumps for better RT and I have no idea how they do that consistently every pass.
I know I cant.
67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119
68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152
414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174
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Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion?
[Re: Crizila]
#602228
02/03/10 03:21 PM
02/03/10 03:21 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
maximum entropy
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organ
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ime shallow is the way to go. practically speaking, in et racing it doesn't matter how you stage, as long as you stage consistently, and your car reacts consistently. btw, if you stage deep, some racers will get their panties bunched up. "yeah, he stages deep." whatever. do what you want, so long as it's consistent!
for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
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Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion?
[Re: maximum entropy]
#602229
02/03/10 03:49 PM
02/03/10 03:49 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer
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Rock Springs
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Routine rouine routine..In bracket racing people who goes more rounds than not, and win often have a routine....You can bet they stage the same way every single time...Or try too. I love it when I stage so shallow that the stage light flickers on and off a few times, I know I done my job...I set the brake load the car and go racing...
But as far as consistency goes people have there reasons to deep stage, this might be nothing more than trying to make the other guy red light. Or he might be after Reaction time who knows...But deep staging the same way one shallow stages should produce the same consistency either way.
[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
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Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion?
[Re: Bob_Coomer]
#602230
02/03/10 07:50 PM
02/03/10 07:50 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,628
Columbus, Ohio
wheelsup68dart
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Posts: 4,628
Columbus, Ohio
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I too use the shallow stage routine when I run, but of course with a box it is pretty much pointless where I am in the beams as long is it is consistent, but when I run my buddies cuda I do have to bump, bump, bump the car in to trim the reaction time down, this is leaving where I feel comfortable on the tree i.e. last amber. In a perfect world I would have 3 sets of diff diameter tires to accomplish this for my driving style or track conditions, or a front end that has the ability to have some stagger set into it. The one thing I have not heard mentioned is that a deep stager has an advantage over really good finish line racers. I say this because the last thing I do before I stage is look over and pick a spot on my opponents car just before staging to use at the finish stripe for narrow MOV. If the car in the other lane is deep staged when doing this then you must remember to account for that extra 6 inches that they are in front of your stage point.  Oh BTW ask Brian Henderson how he does it, probably the best deep stage racer I have ever seen.
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Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion?
[Re: wheelsup68dart]
#602231
02/03/10 07:57 PM
02/03/10 07:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
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Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
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Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
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I prefer to just bump the stage beam so I know I'm in the same spot everytime. 
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Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion?
[Re: rebel]
#602234
02/04/10 12:13 AM
02/04/10 12:13 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,257
acworth / N. georgia - south e...
cheapstreetdustr
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acworth / N. georgia - south e...
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consistancy is obviously a key part to being successful.
i only mention'd it to clearify....
3rd
but i am mostly thinking the mathmatics or mechanics..of one way being an advantage over the other..
a long roll out..built in vrs. normal stagger.
since the back of your front tire trips the start of the clock..
and the front of your front tire trips the stop of the clock/ end of pass.
i am/was focusing on the an advantage..
let me ask this...for the sake of arguement.
if you light the 2 stage bulbs ..
does the clock start when the first stage light goes out..or when the last 2nd light goes out..
i understood it was the first bulb goes out and the second bulb goes out and that trips the clock to start?
cheapst.
365" Iron J heads,,3480lbs best 1.39 60ft on SS springs.10.54,124 mph ...6.67 1/8th et.average 60fts 1.46 w/ small cam &.063 no2 pill tagged & insured
[image][/image]
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Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion?
[Re: cheapstreetdustr]
#602235
02/04/10 12:29 AM
02/04/10 12:29 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
consistancy is obviously a key part to being successful.
i only mention'd it to clearify....
but i am mostly thinking the mathmatics or mechanics..of one way being an advantage over the other..
deep vrs shallow..
since the back of your front tire trips the start of the clock..
and the front of your front tire trips the stop of the clock/ end of pass.
i am/was focusing on the an advantage..
let me ask this...for the sake of arguement.
if you light the 2 stage bulbs ..
does the clock start when the first stage light goes out..or when the last 2nd light goes out..
i understood it was the first bulb goes out and the second bulb goes out and that trips the clock to start?
cheapst.
Second light goes out.... remember you have guys that
deep stage
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Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#602236
02/04/10 12:39 AM
02/04/10 12:39 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,257
acworth / N. georgia - south e...
cheapstreetdustr
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acworth / N. georgia - south e...
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oh iam with you the second bulb starts it....
with this in mind..then the deep stage shouldnt
create a need to find a that reference point on the car next to you when you go to the stripe
in fact if you actually need to find a point farther forward..at the stripe...
forward of what your seeing..at the starting line.
...no ?
i worked late and am running out of steam...but ill be back..later..
i am interested in this subject..ive run my theories...over the yrs..and its been fairly good for me..
but i am bored..not being able to race.
and would like to keep a dialogue going on on this topic..
i might learn a new perspective...
i have other points to make..
but i cant keep my eyes open right now..
till later..
cheapst.
365" Iron J heads,,3480lbs best 1.39 60ft on SS springs.10.54,124 mph ...6.67 1/8th et.average 60fts 1.46 w/ small cam &.063 no2 pill tagged & insured
[image][/image]
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Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion?
[Re: cheapstreetdustr]
#602237
02/04/10 12:46 AM
02/04/10 12:46 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
oh iam with you the second bulb starts it....
with this in mind..then the deep stage shouldnt
create a need to find a that reference point on the car next to you when you go to the stripe
in fact if you actually need to find a point farther forward..at the stripe...
forward of what your seeing..at the starting line.
...no ?
i worked late and am running out of steam...but ill be back..later..
i am interested in this subject..ive run my theories...over the yrs..and its been fairly good for me..
but i am bored..not being able to race.
and would like to keep a dialogue going on on this topic..
i might learn a new perspective...
i have other points to make..
but i cant keep my eyes open right now..
till later..
cheapst.
If you see that same angle on his car at the finish
line, your loosing, I forget the distance between
the stage and pre-stage lights... I think its 8"
could be 6" but you need to change that angle by the
distance of the stage pre stage lights
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Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#602238
02/04/10 12:59 AM
02/04/10 12:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635
Oakland, MI
dizuster
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You're exactly right thinking that just barely putting the car in to light the stage bulb is most repeatible for the car. But what I've found is that my brain/body has a comfortable spot on the light. Meaning that I am most repeatable when I "see" the bulb fully on. Unfortunately for me, that means thatshallow staging the car just means repeatable, but poor reaction times. I've found that when I try to adust myself to the shallow stage, my reaction times are all over the map. (Because I'm trying to anticipate "seeing" that bottom bulb on. I have a better time rolling the car in a little further, and hitting the bottom bulb in my comfort zone. If you do it all the time, you can get a pretty good feel for how far the car rolls in. The other thing that is nice is by having a good feel for rolling the car in, is that you can adjust your lights from track to track. Some tracks are just fast/slow, so it's nice to be able to adjust accordingly. As for shallow staging and getting a run at beam, this will make the car ET better, but hurt the reaction time. When my light is good/bad, I can always tell if it was really me or not by the 60' time. If I'm .03 slow on the light, but the 60' picks up .03, it's because I had the car in too shallow. If I have a .50x light, and the 60' is slow, it's because I had the car in too deep. Anyway, just my
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Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion?
[Re: wheelsup68dart]
#602239
02/04/10 01:11 AM
02/04/10 01:11 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,847
MI, usa
dvw
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Quote:
I too use the shallow stage routine when I run, but of course with a box it is pretty much pointless where I am in the beams as long is it is consistent, but when I run my buddies cuda I do have to bump, bump, bump the car in to trim the reaction time down, this is leaving where I feel comfortable on the tree i.e. last amber. In a perfect world I would have 3 sets of diff diameter tires to accomplish this for my driving style or track conditions, or a front end that has the ability to have some stagger set into it. The one thing I have not heard mentioned is that a deep stager has an advantage over really good finish line racers. I say this because the last thing I do before I stage is look over and pick a spot on my opponents car just before staging to use at the finish stripe for narrow MOV. If the car in the other lane is deep staged when doing this then you must remember to account for that extra 6 inches that they are in front of your stage point.
Oh BTW ask Brian Henderson how he does it, probably the best deep stage racer I have ever seen.
I agree Brian is tough. I've had some tight races with him. Staging is a function of where you can get the car and driver to cut a good reaction time. Most good drivers are pretty consistent on the the tree. Its the cars that are different. I agree I've driven cars that cut a good light dead shallow. I've also driven street cars that you had to turn the top bulb out. The most difficult is a car that leaves in between. This is a category where a lot of cars fall into. It is tough to be consistent bumping in,but not impossible. I'd rather vary .020 to.040 bumping in than be consistent .080. It's all practice.
Doug.
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