stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion?

stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/03/10 03:48 AM

i got in a good discussion last night with a friend about deep stage-ing vrs shallow staging..
it was interesting ...although i couldn't get him to understand or agree with my philosiphy

basically..i feel/hypothisize
if you shallow stage..
1st... it gives you a "constant" or consistant point of reference to your cars location..
and can be repeated easily..with alot of accuracy or way to remove variables..
for instance ..your roll out equates to time.
lets say your roll out is 6"..
if you pull in lightly and just trip the beam going in..perfectly ..
you now have 6" ahead of you to roll before you trip the clock
but if you just pull in without discipline.
you could be 5"-4"-3" ect..from tripping the beam when you launch.
this will effect your reaction time from/according to each of these examples..
changing consistancy from @ launch/reaction time to another launch/reaction time. assuming you staged differently each of these times

next..

since the clock doesnt start until you break the beam...if you have adiquate roll-out...
technically you could start moving sooner..
have a technical advantage over the other lane.
of course youll have to time it properly as reaction time to tripping the light still applies to the other lane...
but for instance...my arguement was.
if i shallow stage with good rollout..agaist an opponent who deep stages...
i get a head start..with momentum in my favor.
his arguement was et ...is still et...?

anyone have an opinion..?
cheapst

Posted By: cheapstreetdustr

Re: stage-ing advantages..whats your opinion? - 02/03/10 03:56 AM

My other aguement ..
was against deep staging a car that has a slow reaction time...or slow lauch..(like those clunker street cars that show up on the money nights...4 instance.

my point is..if the car leaves slow..
then shallow stage..or set the 2nd yellow stage the way i mention'd earlier..
by just bearly bumping in..to put the car exactly in the same spot. each time
then JUST FIND A EARLIER REFERENCE POINT to leave off of..
you will have the running start i refered to earlier...
and actually make up for a slow reacting car.
?
for instance..if you could enlarge the roll out of a slow reacting car.say from 6" to like 9"
.then leave earlier (off a good reference point...ie..2nd to last bulb)
technically you could make up for the slow reacting of you car...
and get the head start i am refering to...?

cheapst

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: stage-ing advantages..whats your opinion? - 02/03/10 04:09 AM

I'll take the biggest rolling start I can get everytime
as long as you can figure out when to hit it

Posted By: jvcuda

Re: stage-ing advantages..whats your opinion? - 02/03/10 04:22 AM

I always stage shallow, because I like seeing the quicker et's.

Posted By: moparacer

Re: stage-ing advantages..whats your opinion? - 02/03/10 04:44 AM

There are 2 points in the staging beams that you know exactly were you are at every time. When the stage light comes on, and when the stage light goes out, and you are deep.

I see guys stage then give it a few extra bumps for better RT and I have no idea how they do that consistently every pass.

I know I cant.

Posted By: bwdst6

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/03/10 12:12 PM

Quote:

anyone have an opinion..?
cheapst

1. Maybe he couldn't get you to understand or agree with his philosophy!
2. If you just trip off the pre-stage light you can then be deep staged and also do so consistently!
3. I would think the most important thing you can do to win a race would be for the car/drive to react quickest after the green light and run closest to their indicated dial at the finish line. Could work?

Posted By: DblOJoe

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/03/10 12:30 PM

If you have a running start as you put it, it's going to effect et. The best way for me is to shallow stage and do the same thing every time. I'd find a way to make the slower car have the ability to go red before trying to deep stage but that's just me.

Posted By: Crizila

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/03/10 07:12 PM

Don't know if this will answer any of your questions, but last year I bought a practice tree. Mine is a little pocket unit that I can take with me ( Pocket Pal portatree ). It has definitely improved my consistancy. Their factory setting for roll out was .320. I called them and asked them what I should set it for - for a heavy car that typically has 1.60 60 foot times. They suggested .370, so thats what I practice at. I stage the same way all the time ( shallow ) - don't know if thats good or bad for a slow foot brake car, but I can at least make that consistant. I try to keep the rest of my routine the same. I often don't know the car I am racing against - couldn't pick him out in a crowd most of the time. I don't care who stages first. If I go in first, I do wait for him to light his top bulb before I move in. I seldom even look over to see where he is at. I dial in what I think my car is going to run based on my last run and the outside temperature. I don't sandbag or play any braking games - I'm not that good. I do ok - for an older guy

Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/03/10 07:21 PM

ime shallow is the way to go. practically speaking, in et racing it doesn't matter how you stage, as long as you stage consistently, and your car reacts consistently. btw, if you stage deep, some racers will get their panties bunched up. "yeah, he stages deep." whatever. do what you want, so long as it's consistent!

Posted By: Bob_Coomer

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/03/10 07:49 PM

Routine rouine routine..In bracket racing people who goes more rounds than not, and win often have a routine....You can bet they stage the same way every single time...Or try too. I love it when I stage so shallow that the stage light flickers on and off a few times, I know I done my job...I set the brake load the car and go racing...

But as far as consistency goes people have there reasons to deep stage, this might be nothing more than trying to make the other guy red light. Or he might be after Reaction time who knows...But deep staging the same way one shallow stages should produce the same consistency either way.

Posted By: wheelsup68dart

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/03/10 11:50 PM

I too use the shallow stage routine when I run, but of course with a box it is pretty much pointless where I am in the beams as long is it is consistent, but when I run my buddies cuda I do have to bump, bump, bump the car in to trim the reaction time down, this is leaving where I feel comfortable on the tree i.e. last amber. In a perfect world I would have 3 sets of diff diameter tires to accomplish this for my driving style or track conditions, or a front end that has the ability to have some stagger set into it. The one thing I have not heard mentioned is that a deep stager has an advantage over really good finish line racers. I say this because the last thing I do before I stage is look over and pick a spot on my opponents car just before staging to use at the finish stripe for narrow MOV. If the car in the other lane is deep staged when doing this then you must remember to account for that extra 6 inches that they are in front of your stage point.

Oh BTW ask Brian Henderson how he does it, probably the best deep stage racer I have ever seen.

Posted By: WILD BILL

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/03/10 11:57 PM

I prefer to just bump the stage beam so I know I'm in the same spot everytime.

Posted By: nss guy

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/04/10 12:10 AM

I race on an index, if I know I'm too quick by .01-.03, rolling in deep will kill some ET. Just have to adjust for the difference in reaction time. But I'm usually late so this will help...

Posted By: rebel

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/04/10 12:15 AM

depends on what car is in the next lane. if it's a V8 i'll deep stage first & put out the top white. get good reaction times doing this. if it's a Turbo import i stage last. i wait till they're fully staged & hit the brake limiter while i'm still in pre stage. because they can't hear their own car due to my cars thunder they spool up quickly but i'm not in stage yet so they soon back off. normally i count to 8 & then drop into stage, generally deep since my A&A ultimate brake lets me stop where ever i want, hit the limiter & pow i'm gone. turbo import in the next lane doesn't have time to spool up properly & so they get a bad start. we have a 10 sec autostart on our pro tree so if we're both in pre stage, as soon as the first car goes into stage the auto start counter starts the count down. this is why i feel its important to be in pre stage first coz as soon as the second car comes into pre stage i roll in deep & i've got more time to position myself than my opponent. rushed staging for some racers i race generally makes them go red or bad reaction time.

Posted By: cheapstreetdustr

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/04/10 04:13 AM

consistancy is obviously a key part to being successful.
i only mention'd it to clearify....
3rd
but i am mostly thinking the mathmatics or mechanics..of one way being an advantage over the other..
a long roll out..built in vrs. normal stagger.
since the back of your front tire trips the start of the clock..
and the front of your front tire trips the stop of the clock/ end of pass.
i am/was focusing on the an advantage..
let me ask this...for the sake of arguement.
if you light the 2 stage bulbs ..
does the clock start when the first stage light goes out..or when the last 2nd light goes out..
i understood it was the first bulb goes out and the second bulb goes out and that trips the clock to start?

cheapst.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/04/10 04:29 AM

Quote:

consistancy is obviously a key part to being successful.
i only mention'd it to clearify....

but i am mostly thinking the mathmatics or mechanics..of one way being an advantage over the other..
deep vrs shallow..
since the back of your front tire trips the start of the clock..
and the front of your front tire trips the stop of the clock/ end of pass.
i am/was focusing on the an advantage..
let me ask this...for the sake of arguement.
if you light the 2 stage bulbs ..
does the clock start when the first stage light goes out..or when the last 2nd light goes out..
i understood it was the first bulb goes out and the second bulb goes out and that trips the clock to start?

cheapst.

Second light goes out.... remember you have guys that
deep stage

Posted By: cheapstreetdustr

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/04/10 04:39 AM

oh iam with you the second bulb starts it....

with this in mind..then the deep stage shouldnt
create a need to find a that reference point on the car next to you when you go to the stripe

in fact if you actually need to find a point farther forward..at the stripe...
forward of what your seeing..at the starting line.
...no ?

i worked late and am running out of steam...but ill be back..later..
i am interested in this subject..ive run my theories...over the yrs..and its been fairly good for me..
but i am bored..not being able to race.
and would like to keep a dialogue going on on this topic..
i might learn a new perspective...
i have other points to make..
but i cant keep my eyes open right now..

till later..
cheapst.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/04/10 04:46 AM

Quote:

oh iam with you the second bulb starts it....

with this in mind..then the deep stage shouldnt
create a need to find a that reference point on the car next to you when you go to the stripe

in fact if you actually need to find a point farther forward..at the stripe...
forward of what your seeing..at the starting line.
...no ?

i worked late and am running out of steam...but ill be back..later..
i am interested in this subject..ive run my theories...over the yrs..and its been fairly good for me..
but i am bored..not being able to race.
and would like to keep a dialogue going on on this topic..
i might learn a new perspective...
i have other points to make..
but i cant keep my eyes open right now..

till later..
cheapst.

If you see that same angle on his car at the finish
line, your loosing, I forget the distance between
the stage and pre-stage lights... I think its 8"
could be 6" but you need to change that angle by the
distance of the stage pre stage lights

Posted By: dizuster

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/04/10 04:59 AM

You're exactly right thinking that just barely putting the car in to light the stage bulb is most repeatible for the car.

But what I've found is that my brain/body has a comfortable spot on the light. Meaning that I am most repeatable when I "see" the bulb fully on.

Unfortunately for me, that means thatshallow staging the car just means repeatable, but poor reaction times. I've found that when I try to adust myself to the shallow stage, my reaction times are all over the map. (Because I'm trying to anticipate "seeing" that bottom bulb on. I have a better time rolling the car in a little further, and hitting the bottom bulb in my comfort zone.

If you do it all the time, you can get a pretty good feel for how far the car rolls in. The other thing that is nice is by having a good feel for rolling the car in, is that you can adjust your lights from track to track. Some tracks are just fast/slow, so it's nice to be able to adjust accordingly.

As for shallow staging and getting a run at beam, this will make the car ET better, but hurt the reaction time. When my light is good/bad, I can always tell if it was really me or not by the 60' time. If I'm .03 slow on the light, but the 60' picks up .03, it's because I had the car in too shallow. If I have a .50x light, and the 60' is slow, it's because I had the car in too deep.

Anyway, just my

Posted By: dvw

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/04/10 05:11 AM

Quote:

I too use the shallow stage routine when I run, but of course with a box it is pretty much pointless where I am in the beams as long is it is consistent, but when I run my buddies cuda I do have to bump, bump, bump the car in to trim the reaction time down, this is leaving where I feel comfortable on the tree i.e. last amber. In a perfect world I would have 3 sets of diff diameter tires to accomplish this for my driving style or track conditions, or a front end that has the ability to have some stagger set into it. The one thing I have not heard mentioned is that a deep stager has an advantage over really good finish line racers. I say this because the last thing I do before I stage is look over and pick a spot on my opponents car just before staging to use at the finish stripe for narrow MOV. If the car in the other lane is deep staged when doing this then you must remember to account for that extra 6 inches that they are in front of your stage point.

Oh BTW ask Brian Henderson how he does it, probably the best deep stage racer I have ever seen.

I agree Brian is tough. I've had some tight races with him. Staging is a function of where you can get the car and driver to cut a good reaction time. Most good drivers are pretty consistent on the the tree. Its the cars that are different. I agree I've driven cars that cut a good light dead shallow. I've also driven street cars that you had to turn the top bulb out. The most difficult is a car that leaves in between. This is a category where a lot of cars fall into. It is tough to be consistent bumping in,but not impossible. I'd rather vary .020 to.040 bumping in than be consistent .080. It's all practice.
Doug.

Posted By: 383man

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/04/10 06:32 AM

I usually only race my 63 a few times a year and some of them are just T & T's. But I still like to work on my lites. I just foot brake and most of the time its a full tree but I have tried a pro tree. My local track runs a .5 tenths tree on the full tree and I have found the happy spot for my 63 at that track. Last 2 times at that track my worst lite has been an .041 but the last time my 2 passes were .028 and .007. I leave as soon as I see the third yellow and it works great since I shallow stage by just turning the stage bulb on. Thats with just SS springs and stock suspension. Ron

Posted By: SportF

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/05/10 02:21 AM

I have used a practice tree and I "leave" at the same light I see at the track. This roll out thing that the practice tree gang says is .320 can't be right! If I cut a "for me normal" light as I do at the track I can get in the teens or low twenties. But if you add that "rollout thing" that means the practice tree .020 is really a .340!!! I haven't had a light that bad since....well, long time. So my question is what does the practice tree roll out thing mean? Any body have an idea how long it takes a car that goes 1.60 60ft to go that 7 inches? (or is it 6 or 8 inches between the stage beams?).

Posted By: Hemi_Joel

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/05/10 03:07 AM

In Bracket racing, you win by having a quicker rt and not breaking out. Deep staging gives you a better rt and a slower et, still getting to the stripe at the same time. Why isn't that better?

Posted By: cheapstreetdustr

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/05/10 03:10 AM

best thing i can tell you is to get one of those
wheel driven measureing devices.
we did it yrs back...putting cardboard in the center of the spokes so it would trip the stage beams at your local track.
then slowly roll it forward to stage..
check your measurement..then roll it till the beams drop it..and youll have the distance..
for your local track anyway..
but it will give you an idea and a base to put into your practice tree roll out..
cheapst.

Posted By: cheapstreetdustr

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/05/10 03:26 AM

Quote:

In Bracket racing, you win by having a quicker rt and not breaking out. Deep staging gives you a better rt and a slower et, still getting to the stripe at the same time. Why isn't that better?

atleast for my point....nothing..if your car reacts fast enough...
if you leave off the last yellow..and your car wont react fast enough (foot braking) then you need to either change your reference for the reaction tigger...
or move your car around in the small "lash" availible in the stage..
my arguement is deep may still be slow..
so if you shallow stage .then find a sooner reference..youll have a different approach..

also...i contend that more built in roll out either with tire diameter and or tire stagger.
you can gain a measureable advantage..over the other lane...
again ..factoring ..the back side of the tire starts the clock and the front side stops it..
cheapst.

Posted By: 383man

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/05/10 06:00 AM

Quote:

In Bracket racing, you win by having a quicker rt and not breaking out. Deep staging gives you a better rt and a slower et, still getting to the stripe at the same time. Why isn't that better?

On a full .5 tree footbraking most can cut a great lite as it gives the time for your car to react and roll out. I can cut good lites on a full .5 tree all day long but put me on a .4 Pro Tree and I cant get a lite better then .100 unless I deep stage because my car wont react fast enough on that Pro Tree. Thats why most guys racing on Pro Tree use a transbrake so the car reacts fast enough to get a lite. Ron

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/05/10 10:07 AM

Quote:

In Bracket racing, you win by having a quicker rt and not breaking out. Deep staging gives you a better rt and a slower et, still getting to the stripe at the same time. Why isn't that better?

You can still have a .00X reaction time weather it be
deep or shallow staged... but with a deep stage you
dont get any roll time before you start the clock,
where as if you shallow stage you start the roll a
little sooner(on the tree) to start the clock when
you will have "some" speed already.... I myself have
to shallow stage just so I dont go red and thats even
with the last yellow on full and JUST going out...
sure I could change my starting line procedure like
lowering the launch rpm but I like it to react quickly

Posted By: 440Jim

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/05/10 08:04 PM

I don't think any of those are an advantage. You just have to cut a good light (RT) and predict your ET. Find what works for you and your car and be consistant, every time. Practice, practice, practice.

If you can't cut a good reaction time, change the car (tire size/pressure, converter, suspension, etc.) Unless you have a delay box and top bulb the tree, that allows you to dial-in the rest of the reaction time (except for the driver's reaction time).

Posted By: tboomer

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/05/10 08:47 PM

Quote:

I don't think any of those are an advantage. You just have to cut a good light (RT) and predict your ET. Find what works for you and your car and be consistant, every time. Practice, practice, practice.

If you can't cut a good reaction time, change the car (tire size/pressure, converter, suspension, etc.) Unless you have a delay box and top bulb the tree, that allows you to dial-in the rest of the reaction time (except for the driver's reaction time).

Posted By: ajcasini

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/05/10 09:22 PM

Here is a link to Michael Beards website explaining the starting line. It can't be explained any better than Mike explains it.

http://www.staginglight.com/guide/react.html

Posted By: cheapstreetdustr

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/06/10 01:39 AM

Quote:

Here is a link to Michael Beards website explaining the starting line. It can't be explained any better than Mike explains it.

http://www.staginglight.com/guide/react.html

while i agree that guy explains it for those whe may not fully understand it...
this is only addressing reaction time..
not any advantage..
i am talking about gaining advantages....
cheapst.

Posted By: dannysbee

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/06/10 04:14 AM

If what you are saying is true then a faster leaving car would have an advantage too as it would move the 7" quicker kind of like this running start you are talking about.

Posted By: ajcasini

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/06/10 03:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Here is a link to Michael Beards website explaining the starting line. It can't be explained any better than Mike explains it.

http://www.staginglight.com/guide/react.html

while i agree that guy explains it for those whe may not fully understand it...
this is only addressing reaction time..
not any advantage..
i am talking about gaining advantages....
cheapst.

The only advantage to be gained is ET related. Staging strategies are a combination of driver and vehicle reaction time. So with two variables there are alot of possibilities. So lets take one out. The Driver, lets say our driver leaves when the 3rd yellow comes on, same time every time. Now we are dealing with only the vehicle. If we have a slow reacting vehicle deep staging provides a Reaction advantage because the car does not have to cover the full 7" to break the stage beam and trigger the RT beam. If you have a car that takes .350s to initiate the RT beam Shallow Staged and our driver, a fixed variable takes .230s to react to the third yellow, our best RT possible is a .580 which will get you trailered early. Now enter Deep Stageing. Our slow reacting vehicle now has to cover less ground to break the reaction time beam. So back to the numbers our car will take .300s to break the beam and our driver, fixed variable at .230s, now our RT would be .530 which will put you in the hunt.

The other variable is the driver and this variable can make changes to his spot on the tree to make the same type of adjustments. However the driver is not a mechanical piece and does not repeat as well as a mechanical vehicle. If the driver gets to a point where he is anticipating the third yellow in order to have a good reaction time bad things can occur. (RED LIGHT, MISS THE SPOT, Etc..)

I have done everything from Shallow, to Bumping Once, Twice, even three times, to deep, and even deep plus a little more. These are all with different vehicles that react differently.

The reason I adjust my staging procedures is have a very comfortable 'spot' on the tree. I do not adjust myself for RT rather adjust the car by how I stage it. The hardest spot to be in as mentioned before is the land where you are .550 shallow and .480 Deep. This is where you have to bump after you are shallow.

I am no expert but have been around a while and love the numbers of the sport.

The way you stage the car only affect vehicle RT and ET. In a bracket race you know what your ET will be based on your staging procedure. I do not know anyone that has gone shallow in Rd 1 and deep in rd 2???

The only part of the sport where staging procedure can win or lose you a race is in heads up competition. It is better to be as shallow as possible as this will net the quickest ET possible. IF you have a Top Fuel Race and one driver goes deep and the other shallow it could play out like this.

Lane 1 Lane 2 (Deep)
RT .050 .020
ET 3.800 3.840
MPH 305.00 305.00

W Lane 1 .010 MOV

If Lane 2 had been shallow as well it could have played out differently.

Lane 1 Lane 2
RT .050 .040
ET 3.800 3.800
MPH 305.00 305.00

W Lane 2 .010 MOV

The deep staging slowed his ET die to not having the 'rolling start as his opponent'. It also picks up the RT but not enough to overcome the loss in ET.

In Scenario 2 both shallow the drives RT slows but ET picks up and he wins the race.

I know this is a lot to read but in a normal bracket race the Shallow vs Deep provides no distinct advantage. The shallow stager knows what his car runs shallow and has his RT tuned for the procedure and car. The Deep stager knows what his car runs deep and has his RT tuned for the procedure and car. You will not see a bracket racer switch throught the day from Shallow to Deep to try and gain an advantage over an opponent.

Hope some of this helps.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/06/10 08:54 PM

I have won races staging both deep and shallow, I have dialed the car different for deep with the intent to mess with the other driver by staging deep after he is staged and ready to to run and waited until his side of the tree comes on (starts down)

It works on some and not on others

It has been mentioned several times in this discusion, bracket racing is bracket racing, your not running aaginst the other racer, your racing yourself by setting the handicap and your reacion time, the computer determines, mathamatically, who wins in that race, IE the best package

By shallow staging your racing a lttle further distance (the differences in inches in between shallow and deep staging) than your deep staged opponent. The timers start when the botton stage lights go out so less rolling start results in a slower ET and possibly a better reaction time on a slow leaving car. lots of things to think about when bracket racing

Heads up racing, fastets cars with best drivers when every time

I wish I could afford to run a heads up car

Posted By: cheapstreetdustr

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/07/10 03:22 AM

when i first built this duster it was for heads up MNCA..(top 8 in points back then fwiw.toot,toot)
so some of my thinking in the first part of my arguement was based on that.
i posted mostly to just start a conversation. on the subject ..an hear from others with opinions.

while recent yrs ive bracket raced..i didnt really ..fully include that in my thinking...
i agree..about the bracket issues...
and there is probably little to no advantage with a shallow stage..since you still have to hit your et ..waxed on the windshield..

i do however want to expound on the staggerd wheel or extended rollout..
basing this on the aforemention'd mechanics
the clock starts on the back of your front tire.
and stops off the front.
so lets take a car (left lane) with staggerd front wheels giving you a mechanical roll out of 14" .
and a car in the (right lane) with a conventional roll out of 11"
if both cars hit a identical reaction time..and ran the identical et.
the car in the left lane would click the win light..because its front wheels would be 3" infront of the car in the right lane.

cheapst.

Posted By: ajcasini

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/07/10 04:32 AM

There is no mathmatical way that if two drivers regardless of stage or rollout have an identical et ( I am talking as far out as the computer goes) that you could determine a winner. The other car would not arrive 3" ahead of the other. If he were to arrive 3" ahead of the other his et would be quicker.

Regardless of the rollout the back of the tire still starts the clocks and the front stops them. I see where you would think that this woudl occur being I have a 3" advantage off the line. However the front tires would need to hit the stripe at the exact same time to have the exact same ET.

There woudl be an advantage in ET for the guy with the 3" stagger this does not however affect the position of the front tire in relation to the opponent regardless of stagger.

Posted By: dannysbee

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/07/10 05:09 AM

The car without the stagger will have a quicker reaction time because of the shorter roll out. The car with the stagger has to move further to break the beam. If both cars reached the finish line at the exact same time the car with the shorter roll out would trip the timer first.

Posted By: cheapstreetdustr

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/08/10 03:24 AM

i started this post to get a dialogue going on this topic...
i am glad i did...its changed my thinking\

Quote:

There is no mathmatical way that if two drivers regardless of stage or rollout have an identical et ( I am talking as far out as the computer goes) that you could determine a winner. The other car would not arrive 3" ahead of the other. If he were to arrive 3" ahead of the other his et would be quicker.

Regardless of the rollout the back of the tire still starts the clocks and the front stops them. I see where you would think that this woudl occur being I have a 3" advantage off the line. However the front tires would need to hit the stripe at the exact same time to have the exact same ET.

There woudl be an advantage in ET for the guy with the 3" stagger this does not however affect the position of the front tire in relation to the opponent regardless of stagger.

i beleive your right...
again i keep getting stuck in the first to the stripe is the winner....frame of mind.
i succeed..
in heads up my stagger theory should be correct though...as far as a slight advantage...
fwiw..
cheapst

Posted By: Rodney

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/08/10 01:52 PM

Is it possible if a car shallow stages, for the front wheels to come off the track so quickly that the beams are not broken until the rear wheels pass through?
I've seen this happen, or thought I did at our track some time ago.
the RT indicated so by a poor RT but then again could have simply been an error in the timing system?
has anyone seen this?

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/08/10 04:24 PM

Quote:

Is it possible if a car shallow stages, for the front wheels to come off the track so quickly that the beams are not broken until the rear wheels pass through?
I've seen this happen, or thought I did at our track some time ago.
the RT indicated so by a poor RT but then again could have simply been an error in the timing system?
has anyone seen this?

the beams are broken when the tire moves out of the beam, not when something passes through.

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: stage-ing advantages. on the tree...whats your opinion? - 02/08/10 04:26 PM

Quote:

i started this post to get a dialogue going on this topic...
i am glad i did...its changed my thinking\

Quote:

There is no mathmatical way that if two drivers regardless of stage or rollout have an identical et ( I am talking as far out as the computer goes) that you could determine a winner. The other car would not arrive 3" ahead of the other. If he were to arrive 3" ahead of the other his et would be quicker.

Regardless of the rollout the back of the tire still starts the clocks and the front stops them. I see where you would think that this woudl occur being I have a 3" advantage off the line. However the front tires would need to hit the stripe at the exact same time to have the exact same ET.

There woudl be an advantage in ET for the guy with the 3" stagger this does not however affect the position of the front tire in relation to the opponent regardless of stagger.

i beleive your right...
again i keep getting stuck in the first to the stripe is the winner....frame of mind.
i succeed..
in heads up my stagger theory should be correct though...as far as a slight advantage...
fwiw..
cheapst

on a heads up run the shortest way down the track should be the quickest with all other things being equal.