'53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
#582586
01/14/10 07:51 PM
01/14/10 07:51 PM
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KatFysh
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What can you guys tell me? Lets see some pics done and in progress..
As most of you know, I had a little "incident" with my Dakota last summer. What I have remaining are, the body and frame, the complete 8 3/4 rear, the front drop spindles, aftermarket d-shaft,rotors, manual rack and pinion,complete steering column, custom 16 gal fuel cell and few other odds and ends parts..
I have mentioned here before that my dad has a '53 Dodge 5 window truck. It has been in storage for about 28 years. The sheet metal of the cab and front end are near perfect but the rear of the frame is rotted due to a wooden flat bed. I informed my dad that I REALLY wanted the truck and that I may want it as soon as I am done w/ my wife's '66 Scout. He has never said anything about it. Not even a price.
But, instead of selling off the rest of what I have, I am now seriously considering keeping it all and trying harder to get that '53. That is why I'd like to see pics and have other info.
I am thinking of installing a modern 5.2l or 5.9l engine. Not to positive yet though. I may just build a carbed small block. I'm thinking of keeping a "driver" style ride. Nothing too extreme like what I've had in the past. Probably similar to our old '69 Cougar. Maybe even see if I can find a newer style bed that may help the looks.
Are these truck a p.i.t.a. to chop a few inches off or are they better left alone? The reason I ask is because I have the 2" drop spindles and think the profile may have it sit too high for my liking, another reason why I'd like to see pics..
Well, let me know what ya all think. Yea or Nea on the idea totally or do ya have some good input. Share it either way....
When you decide to quit, THAT is the moment when you would've succeeded..
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: KatFysh]
#582589
01/14/10 09:24 PM
01/14/10 09:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,555 Freeport IL USA
poorboy
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Was that 53 with a flatbed a big truck (like 1 1/2ton) or a pickup size?
Pretty much anything bigger then a 3/4 ton will have fender extensions that bolt to the front fenders. These are for clearance of the big wheels and create much more work when lowering the truck. (see the pictures of the cab on the trailer)
If your truck has the standard pickup front fenders, life will be easier, I think.....
Dakota frames are great starting places. They have a good frame with demensions that are easy top work with. I've not swapped a truck cab on a Dakota frame, but have swapped a 50 big truck cab onto an 80 Dodge frame. I'd think the Dakota frame would be a better fit. The short box 1/2 ton frame I put under my 50 was not an easy swap.
At any rate, the biggest issues with any frame swap is width od the wheel track, followed by the relationship between the tire in the wheelwell and the engine/firewall clearance. I don't believe the wheel track will be an issue, but when you start lowering things, lots of strange things start happening. On the full size frame, with the wheels centered in the wheelwells, the engine sat back far enough it interferred with the firewall. To clear the engine, a cut in the firewall the width of the engine and 6" deep would have had to be made. That would have put the "new" firewall almost against the front edge of the dash. A Dakota may work out much better because the engine is almost cewntered over the front wheels where a full size truck the front of the engine is centered over the wheels. Might be enough to eliminate the firewall cut, or at least reduce it. A 3" intrusion into the firewall would be acceptable, 6" is really pushing it. You will also need to fab cab mounts, and a radiator support because the 48-56 truck front sheet metal hangs off the rad support. Also expect to fab some sort of box (or modify the frame length) because the rear wheels will probably be in the wrong position.
If your truck has the fender extensions, plan on building new front fenders, or doing major modifications to the existing fenders. The extension adds about 4" per side to the cab width and the arch is very large and very long. At very least you will need to reduce the size of the arch, ahorten it by about 10" and reduce the width. Then you will need to make a filler pannel to take up the space of the reduced size arch. The good part is you can modify where the center of the wheel opening ends up being. That helps with firewall clearance.
If your truck has corner windows, chopping the top is also a challenge, but doable if you like that sort of thing. Gene
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: poorboy]
#582591
01/14/10 09:53 PM
01/14/10 09:53 PM
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KatFysh
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slammed39, thanks.. I'll go check out that link.. Eric.. you know me.. No. I gotta be good. That was a real eye opener. It happened too quick and I got lucky. Poorboy, I've read your responses back a few pages. I see that you've been there done that. The one I'm looking at is a regualr pick up truck. It had a stake bed at one time. the bed sides are looong gone as is the bed floor. I'm not afraid of any fab work. I'm kinda looking for another challenge. I have thought about using a front engine plate this time. I had a 440 between the rails of the Dak w/ fenderwell exit headers. I think I want to keep everything inside the rails this time. Also, I'm not too worried about engine placement. That is why I mentioned a small block. I already notched the crossmember for the 44o oil pan, I can do lots more there if need be. The wheelbase is 110 on this chassis. It a shortbed regualr cab '94 Dak. Do you know the wheelbase of a 53? I may go measure my dads this weekend..
When you decide to quit, THAT is the moment when you would've succeeded..
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: KatFysh]
#582594
01/15/10 09:49 PM
01/15/10 09:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,555 Freeport IL USA
poorboy
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According to my book, a 1/2 ton pickup had 108" wheel base, but in 53, Dodge added a 116" wheel base 1/2 ton. Also, a 3/4 ton could/would have been 116" wb. The stake bed truck could have been either a 108" or a 116". Clear as mud, eh? Either way, I think the Dakota wb will work out great.
Just for your info, begining in 56 or 57, the step side box stake pockets became straight (read 1 1/2" or 2" square tubing) and begining in 53 through the end in 86 or 87, all step side fenders were the same (think LRE). Also in 56 or 57, the top ledge of the box side change from a 45 degree angle to a 90 degree angle. 1" conduit is about the same diamiter as the rolled tube at the top surface of the box sides. If a guy could live without the strengthing ribs in the box sides, some bent 18g or 20g sheet metal makes a nice box sides that can match any wheel base configuring. See my box in the picture above. Gene
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: dakotadan]
#582596
01/18/10 11:26 AM
01/18/10 11:26 AM
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KatFysh
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I'm not concerned with having to relocate some cab mounts. The truck that I'll be working with{the '53} is pretty solid. I'm guessing I'll have to rework the floor anyways. I can weld any type of outrigging off the Dak frame to make it happen.. Thank you for the heads up though. I wanted to go measure the wheelbase and track width of the '53 and compare it with the Dak. I didn't get a chance to do that yet. While I'm there, I'll try to take a few pics of what I'm up against..
When you decide to quit, THAT is the moment when you would've succeeded..
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: KatFysh]
#582597
01/18/10 12:19 PM
01/18/10 12:19 PM
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Posts: 7,992 Escondido, CA. Ron Podsiadly,...
Mopar Ron
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Kevin, are you planing on on using the roll cage too or did that get removed when you cut it apart? have any pics of whats left that you want to use? I think putting the 53 cab and front end on should work out very well, we have about 4 40-46 cabs going on Dakota chassis and I'am told the 53's fit better than the 40's. a small block will fit better but I think the 440 could be made to fit as well. making cab and front end mounts is not to hard to do and making a bed and mounting fenders to fit the WB is pretty easy too. heres a picture I found of a chopped one
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: Mopar Ron]
#582598
01/18/10 12:58 PM
01/18/10 12:58 PM
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KatFysh
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Thanks Ron.. Sweet pic too.. Basically the complete Dak as a roller is sitting on my trailer and the cage is still present. I had planned on cutting the bed and cab so that I can just lift those off the frame and leave the cage. Not sure yet. I'm thinking I won't be needing the cage for this "build". I went and took a few pics of what I could, I also took a few measurements. The wheelbase of the '53 is 118" and the Dak wb is 112". The measurement from the centerline of the front wheel to the rear of the cab on the '53 is 5'. The same measurement on the Dak is 6'. I wouldn't think that the Dak was THAT much longer up front.. Guess the door is quite big.. I wasn't able to get the track width. Could someone else check that for me? And maybe double check the center of wheel to the back of the cab, just to be sure?? Here is what I'd be dealing with... Can ya see in there ???? Its all the way in the back on the right side. Here's another reason why ya can't see it.. If ya look closely, yes it is sunk in the ground. There is a hill to left side of the barn and guess where all the runoff drains through?? Here's the int.. The truck has been sitting in this barn for roughly 18-25 yrs. Before that he had it outside under a leanto that fell in. I guess I'll say that AS I REMEMBER, when it was outside, the sheet metal was in real nice shape. I noticed that, on the pass side fender, there is a little bubbling where the fender support is. It the area of the little gray spot. Other than that, the side you see is nice and solid. It has a push button starter. Not sure if they all were or not. It was driven into this spot back then. Has a 4cyl, 3spd, single barrel carb. Ron, I have a 400 {complete needing freshened up}and a 383 {bare block with crank rods and heads} in my garage. I was thinking of using a small block do to the ease of fitment. I'll have to by new bb motor mounts for the Dak frame. I sold the ones I had. It'll be easier to get stock mounts for a 318/360 and more room for headers..
Last edited by KatFysh; 01/18/10 01:05 PM.
When you decide to quit, THAT is the moment when you would've succeeded..
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: KatFysh]
#582599
01/18/10 05:26 PM
01/18/10 05:26 PM
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Posts: 7,992 Escondido, CA. Ron Podsiadly,...
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The 6" difference in wheel base is not a problem as you will need to make a new bed and mount the fenders where you want, or if you go flat bed(personally I like a PU bed) as far as the track width goes a Dakota is a little wider than say a mustang II so it would depend on what off set wheel you run on the front and how low you want it to set, but if you go with a stock off set wheel and not a reverse wheel you should be OK. just set the body in place on the frame, fit the front end to be sure the wheels are in the wheel well properly and start making mounts then get or have some one bend up a bed and mount some rear fenders Ron... I make it sound easy huh
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: rattler]
#582605
01/21/10 12:42 PM
01/21/10 12:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,757 levittown pa
fstfish66
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sounds kool lets see some pics please,,love 57s
1966 barracuda prostreeter super charged 340(SOLD) 1940 dodge coupe 241 hemi street rod 2014 ram express hemi 4x4 dailey driver 2015 cherokee 2013 R/T classic
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: KatFysh]
#582607
01/21/10 06:29 PM
01/21/10 06:29 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 773 Crofton, Ky.
rattler
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Kinda a cross between rod and pro-street. Just one i have wanted to do for a while.
Last edited by rattler; 01/21/10 08:25 PM.
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: rattler]
#582608
01/21/10 07:25 PM
01/21/10 07:25 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 773 Crofton, Ky.
rattler
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I can't get any pictures to post? Randy. Thata okay, i got my daughter to help.
Last edited by rattler; 01/21/10 08:42 PM.
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: rattler]
#582609
01/21/10 08:46 PM
01/21/10 08:46 PM
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rattler
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I will post a couple of pics, but i have been taking pics along the way, so i have a lot.
1957 Dodge truck, Snakeskin Green with a little stroker motor. 1964 Plymouth Savoy wagon ( my new project)
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: rattler]
#582610
01/22/10 09:34 AM
01/22/10 09:34 AM
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KatFysh
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That looks like real nice.. Do you have any pics of what the truck was originally? Just to see the height ,etc? Got any of the engine mounted in place? What are you going to use as a bed floor,wood? I was kinda of concerned how the profile of the truck would be being lowered and not chopped. Yours doesn't look too bad. I think I may not have to chop mine, yet.. The pic of my Dak has it lowered 2" from stock up front with BelTech drop spindles. I also used CalTrac bars on the rear with a 1 7/8" drop block. I still have the blocks and the spindles but may go back to stock leafs. I'm thinking that it should work out okay stancewise. My rear tires are almost needing replaced from doing the burnouts in the box.. I was planning on going to the widest tire I could fit on the wheel I already have and go a little wider than the front also. Post up more pics.. This is going to help me quite a bit. Thanks for having been there doing that.. I never really noticed before, but that body line from the back of the cab around the front of the hood and back again, I really like how "crisp" that is. That IS really cool..Guess I should pay a little more attenetion to these things..
Last edited by KatFysh; 01/22/10 09:39 AM.
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: KatFysh]
#582611
01/22/10 09:53 AM
01/22/10 09:53 AM
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rattler
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Just about all the fab work is done now. I already have the motor-trans mounts built and in place. I wanted to chop, but i need the room. I started out with the dak column but had trouble getting in so i changed to a jeep tilt and that worked great. I was having trouble with seat placement until i found a set of grand cherokee full power buckets, they work great, also used a durango console.If there is any particular parts you want to see, just ask. Oh, this was also a long-bed and i shortened it to a short bed. I measured it against a stock 57 and i am 13" lower in the front. Randy
1957 Dodge truck, Snakeskin Green with a little stroker motor. 1964 Plymouth Savoy wagon ( my new project)
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: rattler]
#582612
01/22/10 09:56 AM
01/22/10 09:56 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
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rattler
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Oh, and i had to shorten the inner fenders by 12" to make them work with the lowering.
1957 Dodge truck, Snakeskin Green with a little stroker motor. 1964 Plymouth Savoy wagon ( my new project)
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: rattler]
#582613
01/22/10 10:00 AM
01/22/10 10:00 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 773 Crofton, Ky.
rattler
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I can only seem to post one pic at a time.I used stock dodge big-block motor mounts and oil pan, that way i only had to build out to them and can use off the shelf isolaters.Randy
Last edited by rattler; 01/22/10 10:07 AM.
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: rattler]
#582615
01/22/10 11:08 AM
01/22/10 11:08 AM
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KatFysh
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Nice tranny tunnel work. What year steering column and seats are they? I didn't even consider a console. Didn't think there would be room. Looks good though. When you post pics try [img] [/img] and your pic link to fill the space between the ] & [... Then when you want to add another pic use a space after the [/img] I usually hit enter for the next pic.. Is that understandable?? What/where are you going to to do for brake master cylinder? Looks like it may be tight with the bb. This is another reason I was thinking sb. I may go with pb and ps..
Last edited by KatFysh; 01/22/10 11:12 AM.
When you decide to quit, THAT is the moment when you would've succeeded..
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: rattler]
#582616
01/22/10 12:39 PM
01/22/10 12:39 PM
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rattler
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Tha column in the pic is the Dak, i changed to the jeep last week. I think the column came from a 92 cherokee( square body). I didn't want the boxey column. The seats came from a 98? grand cherokee. Junkyard finds, seats $54, column and leather wheel-$72, console-$30. I have since installed the master cylinder on the firewall and the pedal under the dash. I am not running power breakes because i am planning on a big cam, so - no vacumne.I also just finished rebuilding the driver door this week(lower 4" rusted bad).The dak had power rack and pinion, so that stays.
1957 Dodge truck, Snakeskin Green with a little stroker motor. 1964 Plymouth Savoy wagon ( my new project)
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: rattler]
#582617
01/22/10 01:37 PM
01/22/10 01:37 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,757 levittown pa
fstfish66
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love your 57 project,,best vintage dodge truck style IMO,,, ide like to see pics of the cherookee buckts please,,and a total width deminsion on the bottom part where you sit,,im looking for some thing for my 40 dodge,,perferably out of a mopar,,thats not so wide i cant get some sort of center console,, thanks ,,cant wait to see more on your truck
1966 barracuda prostreeter super charged 340(SOLD) 1940 dodge coupe 241 hemi street rod 2014 ram express hemi 4x4 dailey driver 2015 cherokee 2013 R/T classic
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: fstfish66]
#582618
01/22/10 01:56 PM
01/22/10 01:56 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
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rattler
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I"ll try to measure for you today. Randy
1957 Dodge truck, Snakeskin Green with a little stroker motor. 1964 Plymouth Savoy wagon ( my new project)
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: rattler]
#582619
01/22/10 03:35 PM
01/22/10 03:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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KatFysh
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My wife drives an '02 Grand Cheerokee. Thats why I was wondering what year. Her seats and steering is pretty comfortable. I could see those working in a '50's truck. Thanks for the tip.. I hear ya about the no vacuum. That is something that I'm seriously considering so that I can run the Dak master and booster. Once I get started on this, I see how things will fit. My Dak frame is a '94 so it too had a ps rack. I just need to get a new one. The manual that I installed is now sold. Just waiting on the payment.. What is that in the background of yer last pic? Here's mine..
When you decide to quit, THAT is the moment when you would've succeeded..
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: KatFysh]
#582622
01/23/10 09:00 AM
01/23/10 09:00 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 773 Crofton, Ky.
rattler
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super stock
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Hey, you yankees ain't all bad. I have a friend over in Delaware that has my old 71 Cuda vert.
1957 Dodge truck, Snakeskin Green with a little stroker motor. 1964 Plymouth Savoy wagon ( my new project)
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: rattler]
#582624
01/26/10 03:15 AM
01/26/10 03:15 AM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,757 levittown pa
fstfish66
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i like the fact the switches are built in to the seats,,they look blue in the pic,,ide never think cloth in a cheerokee,,,
1966 barracuda prostreeter super charged 340(SOLD) 1940 dodge coupe 241 hemi street rod 2014 ram express hemi 4x4 dailey driver 2015 cherokee 2013 R/T classic
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: rattler]
#582625
01/26/10 03:18 AM
01/26/10 03:18 AM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,757 levittown pa
fstfish66
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kol thanks 21 wide,would work and give me 6 or 7 inches for some sort of console,,is that including all the side plastic molding and switch area?? thanks again
1966 barracuda prostreeter super charged 340(SOLD) 1940 dodge coupe 241 hemi street rod 2014 ram express hemi 4x4 dailey driver 2015 cherokee 2013 R/T classic
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: poorboy]
#582626
01/26/10 03:20 AM
01/26/10 03:20 AM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,757 levittown pa
fstfish66
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nice looking whats powering it ?
1966 barracuda prostreeter super charged 340(SOLD) 1940 dodge coupe 241 hemi street rod 2014 ram express hemi 4x4 dailey driver 2015 cherokee 2013 R/T classic
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: fstfish66]
#582627
01/26/10 09:57 AM
01/26/10 09:57 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 773 Crofton, Ky.
rattler
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Those Grand Cherokee seats are a charcoal grey and the seat area is larger than the base area. I was able to find some narrower consoles at the junk yard. I just mounted the seats where i wanted them and measured how much room was left between them for console size.The jeep seats were really easy to mount because they have a flat mounting flang on the rear and a vertical on front that only required a piece of angle iron for a mount. One of the best things about those seats is with all the power options i didn't have to worry about getting the mounted angle, or front to rear mounting perfect.
1957 Dodge truck, Snakeskin Green with a little stroker motor. 1964 Plymouth Savoy wagon ( my new project)
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: rattler]
#582628
01/26/10 04:03 PM
01/26/10 04:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
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fstfish66
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nice to know,,,ill have to read back see what year they are out of and start looking for my self,,and the fact the head rest comes out is perfect thanks
1966 barracuda prostreeter super charged 340(SOLD) 1940 dodge coupe 241 hemi street rod 2014 ram express hemi 4x4 dailey driver 2015 cherokee 2013 R/T classic
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Re: '53 Dodge on Gen II Dak frame??
[Re: fstfish66]
#582629
01/26/10 09:52 PM
01/26/10 09:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,555 Freeport IL USA
poorboy
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Quote:
nice looking whats powering it ?
The 54 had a wore out 360 2bbl with a 727 and an 8 3/4 with 3:23 gears when I sold it. We put over 40,000 mile on it and the 360 was around 150,000 when it went in. Just replaced the timing chain, some freeze plugs, and tuned it up. Was planning on replacing the 360 with a fresh one when a 39 Plymouth business coupe found me. Now I don't have either one, just the big blue 4x4. Some day I'll build something else, just can't deside if it will be another truck, (39-47 look good these days) or another car (mid 30-early 50s). Gene
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