This seat belt warning light and bezel, seen in pic below - is either 1) commonly missing on most restorations or 2) it just wasn't installed into too many cars - maybe only E conv's were to come through with one or those cars ordered with loaded light packages, of either A01/A04. Some one here should be able to clear the facts as I cannot.

Gran Coupe/SE/leather optioned HTs with overhead console would not require/have one, there is already a warning light in the console, but the convs may have had one.

Can't find it mentioned in the '70 Plymouth FSM or anywhere on the wiring diagram - the only mention of a replacement bulb there for any seat belt indicator is for a four door model Mopar.

Car has SPD of 7/3/70. Anyone else here have one of these in their E Body or seen one in one before? It is fed by the tan accessory feed on dash harness. The dash frame has a hole where this or the 4 spd reverse bezel is mounted.

-------------------------------------------------
"Remember Obi-Wan...there is always a bigger fish." ~ Qui Gon Jin

Lemme go snap a photo, and then post some words.

Only on non SE/GC cars with deluxe seat belts.

Nicholas,

If you have just joined one month ago with little lurking beforehand, let me warn you that there are many knowledgeable people on this site, some of whom are married to their "facts". Sometimes individual's "facts" differ from those of others, and bickering ensues. As a matter of fact, just my observation of this might itself cause bickering. This behavior is not limited to online boards - I spent a fair amount of time two weekends ago listening to someone patiently explaining just how 'wrong" my seat belts were, because he'd never seen anything like them.

Let me divide my comments into personal experience / empirical observation, and hearsay that was represented to me as "fact" by knowledgeable persons.

Personal experience / empirical observations:

I have owned a 1970 Challenger R/T convertible (SPD 9/15/69) since 1979. At the time I purchased it, there was nothing to lead me to believe anyone had tampered with the seat belts. The fender tag was present, but the buildsheet was missing (or perhaps discarded on my watch in Tijuana at an upholstery shop). On the fender tag is the code C15 - Deluxe Restraint System. On the dash is a red light that turns on with the courtesy circuit, and stays lit for a variable amount of time (ranging from as little as 10 to as much as 30 seconds) after the courtesy circuit goes off. The length of delay seems to increase, the longer the courtesy lights were lit. My seat belts are push-button style, with a white band around the perimeter. Although they [the female portion] appear slightly larger than the 71-ish push button style, the MALE portion appears to be the same (and firmly/solidly mates with either style). Attached is a photo with the Deluxe next to a 71-ish sample. You will notice the difference in size, button shape, top embossing, and white perimeter banding.

I have personally seen many other E body convertibles (R/T and otherwise) without this C15 group. It is, in my experience on the planet, a rare item.

Hearsay:

The bezel and mounting stuff is the same as the reverse light, with the exception of the lens.

In rare situations, it can be found on 4-speed cars, in which case the factory punches another hole, and the two lights are side-by-side.

The seat belts can also be found on selected C-bodies (although I have never seen this, and might be willing to buy the whole dang car just to get the rear belts that my car now lacks because of what some foolish kid did back in the 80's [please don't compare this date with my date of acquisition]).

I hope this helps. (You got any belts like mine?)

Yeah the info you posted definitely helps, me, and anyone else here interested or for future reference.

It does have seat belts with a white perimeter.

With some searching you'll find those rear seat belts you're wanting, maybe even this year since the fever may be flowing within again.

I'd like to see a pic of the light you have and if mounted to dash if you can also post one.

beepbeep posted an excellent pic of the two lights together.

So - '70 hard top models with C15 option will also have this same light and bezel and style of seat belts. Cool...

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In addition to the very knowledgeable Beepbeep, one might expect Randy (1WildRT) to weigh in on this issue, bringing his not insignificant experience to the table. He is probably on a plane coming back from the land of banjos as I post this.

Nevertheless, not unlike the bat symbol shining on the clouds to summon the caped crusader and his boy-wonder, the mere scent of this kind of subject (or perhaps the use of his screen name in vain) will likely draw him to this very thread.

Or not.

Type of seatbelts did not matter on SE and GC or any Barracuda with overhead consoles.

Again the only time you will find it on a non SE or GC car is with deluxe seat belts.

Correct.

Those type of bezels also were used for tailgate ajar and NOX emissions.

nee nee, nee nee, nee nee, nee nee
nee nee, nee nee, nee nee, nee nee...


BATMAN!

Here's another picture of one with correct yellow wiring harness

That seat belt light was used on 1970 B body cars as well, when you had the C15 deluxe seat belt package. As previously mentioned, it gave you the 71 style seatbelts.
My 70 Charger R/T SE sublime dealer demo car had the deluxe seatbelt package with dash light.
March 18 SPD.

Greg

Wards Classic Car Radio Repair Specializing in restoration and sales of Mopar A B E body radios
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Here's some overlapping and semi-related info from a previous thread regarding dash lights: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...t=1#Post4266472

Cy

Your car has leather interior correct?

B Beep: There was a 70 Barracuda Gran Coupe convertible 383+4 at Spring Fling a few years back. Burnt Orange with burnt orange interior with the C15 option. It had burnt orange belts with the seat belt light. The C15 belts were available on A,B,C,E and Y body cars, but the belts themselves are not accuratly interchangable between the body types. They have different part numbers, belt lengths, etc.

Yes Joe it's leather.

with everyone here. Some statements may be slightly incomplete, but all are correct.

(except maybe what big money lewis said about 71 belts in 70 B bodies. He could be right, but I'm not knowlegable enough on B bodies to comment on that one. I know it doesn't apply to E bodies though.)

Tav

My '70 is just like the car BS27ROB has.

It does not have the C15 option on fender tag or BCS. It is coded for the L73 and has leather interior that was standard on conv's.

I'd like to know what he wanted to know...why no code C15?

Does have the '70 seat belts that were posted above with white perimeter.

What I don't understand is what got the light coded on my car. I don't have C15 as an option, the car has standard belts. Its a Cuda not Gran Coupe, so was it part of the leather seat option? I've never seen that stated anywhere, and I've been shown examples where that doesn't seem to be the case.

Cy

When we discussed it before, BS27R0Bs car was the only one anyone could find equipped like that and had the seat belt light. If I recall, we were shown other cars similarly equipped that did NOT come with the seat belt light. There seems to be nothing that indicates his car should have a seat belt light. Maybe it was a factory mistake, we may never know. If it's on the broadcast sheet, then keep it.

Ebodyseast, your car sounds like it has the entire C15 Deluxe seat belt package, not just the seat belt light. Another part of that package are some male buckle shaped brackets screwed to the front of the seats to clip the female buckles onto when not in use, to keep them from getting beat up. Do you have those brackets on your seats? If you've got the whole package, and it's not coded, then maybe it's a typo . More info needed.

Maybe now that we've got two cars coded L73 and NOT C15 we can compare them and learn something? Would the two of you post all your broadcast sheet data for us to compare?

Tav

My car was hardly an original owner survivor in 1993 when I took over ownership...car was 23 yeas old.

The conv top was replaced in 1985 and still looked brand new in 1993. The front and rear seats still looked and felt new too. I was given the reciept for the new top but not for new seats. After my pre-existing knowledge and that gained since, I could tell the white leather seat material had been reupholstered at some point.

Most E Body seats were torn to shreds by 1993 and it would be no wonder the leather seats in my car after 100K and 23 years were also shot and previously replaced. I never cared much and dreamed like others of new white leather from Legendary. Life is nothing without our dreams boys.

During my search I looked at what JC Whitney had and found what looked to be identical pair in the white 'vinyl' seat skins w/ little dots/holes they may still currently sell. The original leather was probably replaced with these, an excellent low cost alternative to original as they are very nice fit & quality.

I can imagine now, after Tav posting there to be a presence of brackets for the deluxe front seat belts and some idiot in the reupholstery shop, saying to himself while reskinning the seats back in the day "what the heck are these for?" and then throwing them away. So the long drawn out answer is no, the brackets were either MIA when I got her or were never there at all.

BCS info:
PRXW and C55 bucket seats/C16 console:
A01
LO5/11/15/25/31/65/73/74/76

Maybe the cars are optioned similarly in this way.
Hey BS27ROB...I showed you mine...!!!

E East: Do any of your belts have the white label with part number on them?? If they do, could you please post the seven digit number that you find on each tag for us. That will tell if they are original E Body C15 belts.

Tav: Gran Coupe convertibles have no provision for any of the overhead console stuff associated with a GC hardtop. Yes, they do have the seat belt light on the dash when so equipped with the 70 only C15 belts. I will look for the picture of the aformentioned Spring Fling car I referenced earlier in this post.

Here is a pic of the harness needed for the light.

My connector shows two light bulbs hooked in there. The second lamp wire is way longer than the seat belt lamp wire. Any clue where the other bulb goes to?

Also seen in pic is the connector for the turn signal switch bulb in column.

Title lamp.

Here goes m46rat - working on wiring problems and forgot to post part numbers.

The white banded front belts with push button, only one still has a label & simply reads 'Chrysler Corp 1970' - one of the others has the same label with no part number...just a date: 1970

The other 3 that do still have labels/numbers:
4749 2999587 1969-3
4749 2999587 1970-2
4770 2999631 1970-2

Seems weird that a 1970 has a belt that has a 'part number' reaching beyond its model year...is this a way the factory took out a patent or maybe the wrong year belt.

Where is the title lamp beepbeep? It's probably so simple...thanks for the answer!

The FSM mentions this is also a port for a Gran Coupe wiring if a title lamp is not pluggd in there, the other harnesses I have that had no seat belt light and no column witch light but had the title light were simply capped or plugged on the end.

It lights up the switch panel.

This must be the intended lamp housing, its the only one I have left with no home!

Nick: The 2999 631 part number is the same for all four rear seat belts(two short male belts and two long female(with clasp type buckle NOT push button) in a 70 NON C15 belted E Body car. The 2999 587 part number is for the two front "pull" type belts that are under the front carpet on the left side of the drivers seat and the right side of the passenger seat. They are exactly the same belts used for both C15 and non C15 equipped 70 E Bodies. The date code you mention 1970-2 is indicative of the second quarter of 1970(Spring) and is thus fine for 1970 cars. The correct C15 equipped rear seat belts are all numbered 3508 581 and the part number(as per the parts book) is 4786(they are 1970 only and E Body only, for both hard top and convertible). If your car is a real C15 equipped car, then someone has changed out the seat belts(at least the rear ones) on you. Are the numbers you listed the only ones you can find for the belts in your car? Let me know.

Some labels/tags are completely MIA.

There are only two total styled like the one in pic below, for the front seats I guess. The other two for rear seat are different and unlike any pictured. And reads 'Chrysler Corp 1970'.
Those were the only part numbers - I did supply all that I have. Thanks for explaining what the numbers mean m46.

Do the backs of the C15 buckles have American Safety or Pontonier stamped into the chrome back?

The back of the one pictured above and the others have Pontonier and 600-1.

I made a stupid mistake, I only have two white banded buckles, the other two are like one in pic below.

The one in pic below states 300-1 patent no. 3393433

The others state p-535.

One member said his rear buckles were missing, but identical & like in my case, only the front white banded buckles were installed.

I bought the car in 1994 when nobody cared about or hardly knew about these cars, I see no reason as the other member here why they were tampered with, and even found a factory safety hazard warning label that stated 'seat belts loose' still attached to seat belt bolt once rear seat was removed.

I don't mind taking time away tonight to help resolve issue for my education on E Body & any future reference.

If your car is a hardtop and was made in Detroit all the buckles will be Pontonier. If it was made in Los Angeles it will have the American Safety belts. Is your car a hardtop or convertible? Is the single belt that you have with the C15 type buckle(s) a double belt or a single belt? Can you post a pic. of what the end that bolts to the floor looks like?

Rear.
Here is the Pontonier deluxe:

Here is the Pontonier standard:

Here is the ends of both:


Does anyone have a good picture of the 71 style deluxe buckle? Oddly enough, I have a 71 Dodge 1000 truck here with what I think is those (71) buckles.

"Question: The back seat of a convertible provides a narrower area for passengers than that of a roofed car. Anyone know for certain the number of belts provided back there by the factory?"

I am not positive from remembering the cars (more time in the drivers seat ;-)) but the parts book lists two only, and the center or third belt only for A/B/C bodies, however, there are changes as to the body styles in the book (before or during print, not by a parts guy). In my mind that eludes to the possiblity of some early cars having them, or issues with the vert like you say. The problem I always have with the terms "always" or "never" is that with Chrysler, it was never that.

For 70 E Bodies there is one male and one female belt for the TWO passengers in the back seat, NO exceptions. You could also get the ultra rare rear shoulder belts for the two rear passengers, but only on a hardtop car, of course. No provision was ever made for a center person in the back seat.

my 4 speed T/A has the C15 option. pictures attached.

#2

#3

Lets not forget about the shoulder belts for front passengers in a conv E Body, only ever saw one car that had them...

Here is a IC bezel laying in the floor pans of a chopped '72 Challenger from this weekend at the JY in PA I love to visit, 'Fasten Seat Belts.'

Pic #2

Tav: Always happy to post what I know for you! Part number for those rear shoulder belts is: 4771 The seven digit number is: 2999 589 I am sure Dave at ECS would make them for you if you provide him with the information and date code you need. I believe he only makes labels for Detroit made cars though. The L.A. made cars use different tags and I don't think he is set up to make them, maybe he will chime in and comment.

Thanks Dwight!

Ebodyseast, this may have already been posted earlier, but if not, here's some info... That round seat belt light up by the instrument cluster in your pics if I recall correctly, is found on 72, 73, 74 E bodies, barracudas & challengers, and should be on all of them, standard & rallye dash, because the seat belt light became mandatory.

Tav

It was mentioned earlier Tav, and I remembered this weekend while at the JY, so when I saw it I thought for lack of any other pics, these two would suffice for any documentation....raunchy and delapidated as it is!

You are quite an authority on E Bodys your self and its great to have you as a new friend on the forum.

Tav

I was going to make a new post, but thought this was a good place for this. Going through the boxes of Pontonier belts I have here, I came across this (Pontonier stamped on metal) but it has no tag on it. Could this be the E body convertible shoulder belt!!??

I haven't seen a set in person, but I don't think the E convertible shoulder belts had retractors. It would just be a really long belt. Maybe someone else will chime in?

Tav

I am not sure, the "move for exit" sticker seemed really odd though...

Are they from out of a Mopar getitgone or are you clueless what Make and Model its from and do you only have the one or both? Either way, an exceptional find. I can vaguely recall the only conv I've seen with shoulder belts was only for driver & their front passenger and the front bucket seats had a bracket at top on side for the belt to slide through like in most modern conv's with shoulder belts. Is there a provision for that?
Somebody definitely has to get in on this and enlighten us and with more pics too!

@ ebodyseast, This stuff came in a bulk parts purchase I made a long time ago. Every belt in the box is E body, only one of these. The guy I got it from was a wholesale parts guy for Chrysler, and had a slug of E bodies, no brand X ever as far as I know. I did get some other E vert stuff from him (now gone). The only other used stuff I got from him that was not E was 71 Charger. I am pretty sure M46rat knows the guy I got it from, and would probably agree that he would not have had it if it was not mopar.

I do not know what the provision for a bracket would be, it does have an adjustment slider. My 70 service manual is out on loan, so I cannot look at that even.

"front bucket seats had a bracket at top on side for the belt to slide through like in most modern conv's with shoulder belts. Is there a provision for that?"

Maybe I just can't find it, but I see no such part listed in the book..?

Does anyone have pix, or know if this could be it?

Tony D at Tonys parts has that seat belt warning lamp lens and bezel available as a repop. Same as the reverse lamp kit only with the seat belt light installed into it.