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Dave,I responded to all your PMs.Your discription of the rod condition,having been cycled with 30W oil then molylube creating the need for reconditioning.I didn't respond to that because the engine I recieved had been assembled twice before,and the rods sized before I got it,this may or may not have been the reason for the sizing.If this be the case then that more dollars that has to be spent.

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Bob,
I appreciate the responses. What wasn't clear to me from the get go, and maybe others, is that the kit HAD BEEN ASSEMBLED before. Once, twice, whatever, to me doesnt matter. It means your inspection results and findings are not "out of the box" as I ASSuMEd...lol. I'm not faulting you at all. It just clicked in my own head when your findings didn't jive with mine. I've only looked at 5 sets over as many years so by others' definitions I'm just a hack with no valid input . IMO, Curt's findings in the rods' case are representative of what one might find had one of the first two shops caught and fixed them. It's good that you checked an posted. I believe the manufacturer assumes they are fine as boxed. I assume they are needing some lovin'.

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Does anyone know if the broken Cast Eagle crank on unlawfuls was billed as ready to run?

Just an opinion but what would really be beneficial is if 3 or so kits were bought (440source, mancinii, K1) and then compared equally step by step.

Don't be mad at Brandon or Jeff there just bringing there prof. opponion. BG builds bracket motors and Jeff builds ss/ah motors. Input from both is appreciated.

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James,I'am not mad at anyone,Brandon nor Jeff,but if they want to contribute do so in an uncondenscending way.I have a good command of the English language and can interpert verbal usage quite well.I respect anyone opinion wether I agree or not.That they piled on at an oppertunistic moment to try and discredit me through their condenscending verbage,caused me to react.That Brandon sells thousnds of these kits is great,dosen't mean there are not issues and he could defend and explain each as he had the oppertunity to do so.That Jeff decided to take his shot and Brandon decided to capitalize on it and they both thought I would crawl under my woobbie blanket was an error in judgement.Seems they both have a stake here.Also you mentioned that I build "bracket" motors and Jeff builds "SS/AH" motors,just how many SS/AH motors does Jeff build,how many are competitive,who are his customers?What do Barton and Jackson(CW) engines build?BGR(if you have ever heard of us) builds competitive,reliable,dependable engines for racers,by racers and we will let our racers speak for us,there is not enough space to even start to list them,just look around.As Judge Judy says"don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining" and when some wants to pee on me "out comes my umbrella"

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Do you plan to run that bearing clearance found .002-.0025? Or a switch out to a HXN type bearing going to be in order to get you more in the .003-.0035 range? [/



Bob,we like.002,.0025 range for this type of build,and never have bearing issues.We use synthetic oils.We have noticed at tighter clearences we have less pressure drop at the big end and shut down.When we run the .003+ we see the drop and use an accumulator.

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Not sure I follow......

Of all the rotating assemblies mentioned above, you have the added expense of re-sizing the rods?

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Repeating what has been said a millionXs over.Never assume anything is race ready to use out of the box,be it cylinder heads,cranks,rods, pistons or whatever.Got a set of pistons,premium matched set to the gram,rings included.Rings didnt fit the ringlands.Also got a top of line billit set of rods once,all rods had 1/2 -12 point capscrews one was 7/16 head.

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Not sure I follow......

Of all the rotating assemblies mentioned above, you have the added expense of re-sizing the rods?

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Repeating what has been said a millionXs over.Never assume anything is race ready to use out of the box,be it cylinder heads,cranks,rods, pistons or whatever.Got a set of pistons,premium matched set to the gram,rings included.Rings didnt fit the ringlands.Also got a top of line billit set of rods once,all rods had 1/2 -12 point capscrews one was 7/16 head.

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That's true Bob but what is being asked here is isn't this rod critique invalid because someone already corrected them? If these were out of the box then I can see it being a valid exam , but all you are really doing is checking someone elses work and not the as delivered from the source product.

Also, a .005 difference in length, that's acceptable ???

I'm just asking ...

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Good point John,and valid questions.We can only deal with the kit we aquired after the owner gave up on it.We got a great deal and are trying our best to make it work and will use this build for one of our racers as a test bed for Brandons kits. Regardless of the issues we intend to do our best and test the duralibility and realiability of the kit and at no risk or cost to anyone,with no personal agenda.No one is a loser here,we can just continue on our merry way as we have done for over 40 years and forget we ever heard of "The Source".As for Curt's measurements,he measured the top and bottom bores devided them in half and measured the bottom of the pin bore to the top of the crank pin bore on the rod and did the math.He took all the varaiences and adveraged them at .005.Admittely there is a more accurate way to measure this with a fixture that I have for measuring rods that he can't find Saturday I will measure them myself on my large stand micrometer and a marble stand.I will record those dimension for everyone.Curt is a first year mechanical engineering student and trying to do his best at BGR,we are very proud and confident he will a viable member of BGR.

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Just wondering was the center to center .005 or.0005. Thanks for all the info.

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I'd like that answer as well but FWIW if the resizing that was done was to the big end & not just honing the pin fit on the small end than the measurments could have been effected...

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you beat me to it, I asked the question earlier .005" or .0005"
If the shop that previously resized the rods did a um.........lackluster job of keeping everything equal with the amount of material removed in the rod and cap grinder this will effect the C to C lengths.

Being as these rods did not come straight from 440 Source I think you have to put into question the C to C lengths AND the size of the big end as they could have been Dead On Size to begin with.

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Gentelman, I do not see any more good coming from build post 1 so I locked it. All the players gave their and members have to decide on what is right for them. I say continue with the build and post what is found, (Others may as well) but please leave personal opinions about the products out, just the facts found, I think this is the way BG intended the build to be.

Ted

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Ted don't rule from the bench if the threads break no rules I suggest letting them run their course. just my opinion for whats it's worth.

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It appears you have different rods in your kit compared to the ones in mine (bought in 2007). I have 6.535", 2.200/0.990, I-beam, with ARP 8740 bolts.

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It appears you have different rods in your kit compared to the ones in mine (bought in 2007). I have 6.535", 2.200/0.990, I-beam, with ARP 8740 bolts.

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There have been a few posts of "differences" in their kits. Now feedback from the source on things like that, changes, improvements, etc in the kit over the years shared in a professional manner would have been a plus to the thread.

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It appears you have different rods in your kit compared to the ones in mine (bought in 2007). I have 6.535", 2.200/0.990, I-beam, with ARP 8740 bolts.

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There have been a few posts of "differences" in their kits. Now feedback from the source on things like that, changes, improvements, etc in the kit over the years shared in a professional manner would have been a plus to the thread.

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Brandon has a golden oppertunity to help us understand the issues,concerns and facts of what we see.Explaniations to the whys,whens and the wheres of things to be concerned or not.He can bring "General Custer" as his "expert"

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The obvious flaw in this whole experiment is that you started with a kit that has known problems.

It would have been far more objective to have purchased a new kit anonymously and evaluated it.

You could have entitled this thread "How we inspect and correct manufacturing issues in stroker assembly kits" without naming the manufacturer.

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Maybe the title should be, "2nd or 3rd hand 440 Source kit update"...which would make it meaningless...which it seems to be at this point.

BTW, I bought one of their Hemi cranks when they were having a closeout and my builder (that builds Outlaw Pro Mod motors) said it looked very good!!

Dave

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The obvious flaw in this whole experiment is that you started with a kit that has known problems.

It would have been far more objective to have purchased a new kit anonymously and evaluated it.

You could have entitled this thread "How we inspect and correct manufacturing issues in stroker assembly kits" without naming the manufacturer.

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There were no secrets from the first post and all known information was passed on.The question we all were looking for after all the years of people bashing Source kits,was are they a viable alternative to budget engine builders and is there truely a cost saving or are the just as or nearly as costly as higher priced kits.When all the bashing was going on (over a year ago) I posted that I didn't think there would be any saving if a lot of time and money spent correcting the budget kit.We corrected two kits for two of Brandons customers and things went well.We aquired a kit that frustrated the customer and was presented with and oppertunity to evaluate it here on Moparts at no cost or risk to anyone,in retrospect,I wish I didn't try and be so helpfull to both Brandon and Moparts,but heh thats just my nature,sorry thing got a little testie.

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Nothing is "always" right and mistakes are made, however, it has been my experience, that the "better" parts are much more often "right" than the cheap parts.

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But isn't it a gamble either way? If murphy's law strikes, you're going to pay for the "better(which actually means more expensive)" parts and they could need as much work as the cheap stuff. Or you could buy a cheaper kit and end up with one that needs little to nothing. You can either buy a $1.5k kit and plan to potentially spend x amount of $ fixing the issues or buy a $3k kit and pray nothing needs fixing. It is a gamble either way because like you say, nothing is 'always' right. You do take your chances, which ever way you go.

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