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Re: 440 Source kit update part 1
[Re: B G Racing]
#569619
01/05/10 10:32 PM
01/05/10 10:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928
NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928
NC
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Quote:
Flange face and radius,rough and unequal.
What is interesting, is that BG's crank flange has a scallop cut which appears about where the drill bit to cut the journal lightening hole would be; mine doesn't have that scallop cut. And that cut might allow that hole to be drilled straight? 
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Re: 440 Source kit update part 1
[Re: 440Jim]
#569620
01/05/10 10:36 PM
01/05/10 10:36 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
@#$%&*!
New user name, Same old jerk!
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New user name, Same old jerk!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
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Quote:
I think this needs more scrutiny before coming to a conclusion.
I am looking at my 440Source 4.250" crank (RB) and both the 5-6 and 7-8 rod journals have the lightening hole at an angle.
Very interesting, it seems it was intentional. You can put me in the group who didin't ASSUME it was defective without a clue what was going on.
Quote:
i had some reputable people look at my 3.75 stroke 440 source crank and it passed tech. 
For what it's worth, I had my 440 Source 400/500 kit shipped to a very picky machinist. He scoffed at the fact that I paid extra for a balance and I had to hear about the other 'balanced' kits he'd worked on that were terrible. I told him to check everything out and rebalance if necessary. When I picked it up he didn't have one complaint and I paid a very small fee for them to check the balance. He did substitute the Clevite rod bearings for ACL versions though.
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Re: 440 Source kit update part 1
[Re: moparniac]
#569621
01/05/10 10:36 PM
01/05/10 10:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Ive seen factory cranks that werent drilled all the way through or perfectly centered. What was left though was paper thin pretty much. I just ripped it out and finished it with a dremmel. As I didnt want that stuff ripping itself of and Finding its way to the oil system, as Bob eluded to. Now on the steep angle/ dont recall  Dont know if that would be a problem or not. Of the Two 440 Source kits I had one was Bad and one wazs Good just kidding  thats for 540 mike
Last edited by Sport440; 01/05/10 11:00 PM.
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Re: 440 Source kit update part 1
[Re: 440Jim]
#569624
01/06/10 09:39 AM
01/06/10 09:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,020
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,020
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
What is interesting, is that BG's crank flange has a scallop cut which appears about where the drill bit to cut the journal lightening hole would be; mine doesn't have that scallop cut. And that cut might allow that hole to be drilled straight?
Look at the placement of that hole, it's not even in the center of the rod throw looking at this picture .
Very informative thread BG ...
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Re: 440 Source kit update part 1
[Re: 440Jim]
#569625
01/06/10 10:34 AM
01/06/10 10:34 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
Quote:
Flange face and radius,rough and unequal.
What is interesting, is that BG's crank flange has a scallop cut which appears about where the drill bit to cut the journal lightening hole would be; mine doesn't have that scallop cut. And that cut might allow that hole to be drilled straight?
I'am in agreement that the journal hole may have been angle cut because of counter weight clearence issues,but fact that it was not finished(regardless) of where it exited there will be a true unbalance in the middle of the crank unless the material left was compensated in balance at the crank counter weights.The question is how much weight was left?If removed this would be a moot point. the crank balance would never show this unbalance area as it is balanced to the front and back axis.I will go out on a limb to say that this was not done,if it was its an expensive process and would be reflected in the crank cost. 
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Re: 440 Source kit update part 1
[Re: B G Racing]
#569626
01/06/10 10:40 AM
01/06/10 10:40 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 872
Charlotte NC
DCI
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 872
Charlotte NC
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Anybody got a 440source crank bought in the last year to compare pictures with???? It would be interesting to see if the new stuff is still being done the same way.
"Turbo will be easiest, and at the HP level will also be easiest on parts. Spend the money to do it right, and you can build a 500 HP street motor that will live a long and happy life, and probably with a very basic short block."
Those words must have left a bad taste in his mouth!
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Re: 440 Source kit update part 1
[Re: JohnRR]
#569627
01/06/10 10:48 AM
01/06/10 10:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928
NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928
NC
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Quote:
Look at the placement of that hole, it's not even in the center of the rod throw looking at this picture .
Very informative thread BG ...
I don't know for sure, but remember there are oil holes going from the rod journal surface to the main bearings. So, placement of the lightening hole may not be able to be "centered". Depends on lightening hole dia and location of the oil holes.
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Re: 440 Source kit update part 1
[Re: 440Jim]
#569628
01/06/10 10:51 AM
01/06/10 10:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928
NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928
NC
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Quote:
I am looking at my 440Source 4.250" crank (RB) and ...
It appears the 5-6 journal is drilled larger (0.79" dia) and not as deep as the others which are all the way through and about 0.71" dia. The larger bit/tooling for the 5-6 requires it to be at a slightly larger angle than 7-8 and the amount of metal removed may be the same.
BG, what are the dia of the lightening holes on your low deck (B) crank for comparison?
I am wondering if the B and RB are drilled differently, or it could be a production change (different years, mine is 2007).
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Re: 440 Source kit update part 1
[Re: 440Jim]
#569629
01/06/10 10:52 AM
01/06/10 10:52 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
Quote:
Look at the placement of that hole, it's not even in the center of the rod throw looking at this picture .
Very informative thread BG ...
I don't know for sure, but remember there are oil holes going from the rod journal surface to the main bearings. So, placement of the lightening hole may not be able to be "centered". Depends on lightening hole dia and location of the oil holes.
Good point Jim,I'am going to look at the oil hole passages tonight.
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Re: 440 Source kit update part 1
[Re: B G Racing]
#569630
01/06/10 12:40 PM
01/06/10 12:40 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 413
Norway (old world)
Oyvind Mopar
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 413
Norway (old world)
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For me it looks as the factory knows a lot about how to do a crank correctly, and many people here have learnt a lot about it on this thread. Most other aftermarket cranks I have worked with are made the same way. Probably they are from the same factory? Thanks!
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Re: 440 Source kit update part 1
[Re: B G Racing]
#569631
01/06/10 12:45 PM
01/06/10 12:45 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Not that this "means" anything, but I just went out in the shop and looked at various cranks I have for some BBM and BBC engine projects I am working on. The cranks range from a Bryant Billet, a Lunati Pro-Series, an Eagle and 3 Callies. NOT ONE, has a lightening hole in a rod journal drilled at an angle, nor do the dozen or so factory cranks I have sitting around. IMHO, I would NOT run that crank in an engine with decent power. You have effectively weakened the throw into the cheek and that would be a likely place for a break. This is where cast cranks always break and while this is not a cast crank, the crank is most certainly weakened that area. As to whether this is corrected on later cranks....who knows, crap shoot at best. Again, based on what has been seen, YOU MUST CHECK these parts, old or new.
Monte
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Re: 440 Source kit update part 1
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#569634
01/06/10 03:24 PM
01/06/10 03:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928
NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928
NC
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Quote:
NOT ONE, has a lightening hole in a rod journal drilled at an angle, nor do the dozen or so factory cranks I have sitting around.
I don't know if BG's crank is defective or a strange design, but FWIW.
I just looked at one of my old factory 440 steel cranks. The two middle rod journals did not have any lightening hole at all. And the front and rear journal holes were not drilled all the way through, not even close. I recall seeing some that had 3 journals drilled, 2, etc. Lots of different designs.
The angle is odd. IMO a very small angle is nothing, but a large angle into the wrong part of the journal is another story. I can't tell from where I sit...
I think I am ready to move past the crank and hear about the rest of the parts BG has.
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Re: 440 Source kit update part 1
[Re: Stanton]
#569635
01/06/10 03:28 PM
01/06/10 03:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928
NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928
NC
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Quote:
4) front and rear throws are drilled right through with 5/8" bit. Drilled straight.
5) middle two throws are partially drilled - about 1-1/2" deep, 5/8" bit, AT AN ANGLE.
Interesting that the lightening holes in your 440Source crank are a different diameter than mine. Lots of different designs... (4.250 vs 4.375?) It will be interesting to hear what BG's 4.250 hole diameters are.
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Re: 440 Source kit update part 1
[Re: 440Jim]
#569636
01/06/10 03:51 PM
01/06/10 03:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 288
Birmingham, England
Mick70RR
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 288
Birmingham, England
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I've just had a look through some pictures I took of my engine while I was building it and all four rod journals are drilled all the way through. It's a 440 Source 4.25" crank and I bought it in August 2007.
1970 Road Runner
505 cid
MCH CNC ported Stealth heads
MP 528 camshaft
4 speed
GV overdrive
11.98 @ 117 on street treads
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