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Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? [Re: 1970RT] #555528
12/16/09 09:24 PM
12/16/09 09:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit Offline
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Evil Spirit  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
Applied CORRECTLY, powder coat is extremely durable. Unfortunately, a lot of it gets a bad reputation because of the people trying to do it at home in their Easy Bake oven. Just like with paint, proper prep is critical. Every thing that I have sent for coating I dressed the sharp edges of brackets, chamfered bolt holes, and if possible SAND blasted (not bead blasted - too smooth) for good adhesion. (which is also needed for a proper coat of paint!) I have parts that are over 15 yrs old and with a quick wipe down look new. I also had the bottom of the box let loose on a freshly coated batch of pulleys, bkts, etc. hit the concrete floor - and NOT ONE CHIP. It's just like with paint - there are HVLP jobs and then there are rattle can jobs.


Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? [Re: DCI] #555529
12/16/09 09:39 PM
12/16/09 09:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,587
missouri, USA
moparmojo Offline
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Posts: 2,587
missouri, USA
Well sounds like you may have some professional experience with this. I think the poster wants to know if the extra money is worth it to have parts powder coated. I know a couple guys quoted some prices, but around here powder coating is fairly expensive. I think a couple guys were wanting like $175-$250 to powder coat a single K frame. And on top of that they seemed to indicate getting other colors or finishes were extra costs and would be a time delay concern because they only ran color batches at a time. So even though the poster may not be doing the work himself if he went the powder coat route, there may be a long delay in getting it all done. So for the money is it really worth it. A guy at home to could a fairly nice job with quality paint and probably get a good hard finish in the color he wants.

Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? [Re: Evil Spirit] #555530
12/16/09 10:34 PM
12/16/09 10:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 916
Arizona
Chucklehead Offline
super stock
Chucklehead  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 916
Arizona
Quote:

Applied CORRECTLY, powder coat is extremely durable. Unfortunately, a lot of it gets a bad reputation because of the people trying to do it at home in their Easy Bake oven. Just like with paint, proper prep is critical. Every thing that I have sent for coating I dressed the sharp edges of brackets, chamfered bolt holes, and if possible SAND blasted (not bead blasted - too smooth) for good adhesion. (which is also needed for a proper coat of paint!) I have parts that are over 15 yrs old and with a quick wipe down look new. I also had the bottom of the box let loose on a freshly coated batch of pulleys, bkts, etc. hit the concrete floor - and NOT ONE CHIP. It's just like with paint - there are HVLP jobs and then there are rattle can jobs.




It can be prep and applied correctly at home. I have done it and it is like paint, if the prep work is not right the results are poor quality. The powder cures by heat, it does not care if it is an old oven in your garage or infrared heater or some high $$$ commercial oven. I have used both infrared (for large parts) and an oven with great results at home.
The finishes hold up fine.
Prep work is the key.


Still Broke
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? [Re: Chucklehead] #555531
12/17/09 01:30 AM
12/17/09 01:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit Offline
master
Evil Spirit  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
Quote:

Quote:

Applied CORRECTLY, powder coat is extremely durable. Unfortunately, a lot of it gets a bad reputation because of the people trying to do it at home in their Easy Bake oven. Just like with paint, proper prep is critical. Every thing that I have sent for coating I dressed the sharp edges of brackets, chamfered bolt holes, and if possible SAND blasted (not bead blasted - too smooth) for good adhesion. (which is also needed for a proper coat of paint!) I have parts that are over 15 yrs old and with a quick wipe down look new. I also had the bottom of the box let loose on a freshly coated batch of pulleys, bkts, etc. hit the concrete floor - and NOT ONE CHIP. It's just like with paint - there are HVLP jobs and then there are rattle can jobs.




It can be prep and applied correctly at home. I have done it and it is like paint, if the prep work is not right the results are poor quality. The powder cures by heat, it does not care if it is an old oven in your garage or infrared heater or some high $$$ commercial oven. I have used both infrared (for large parts) and an oven with great results at home.
The finishes hold up fine.
Prep work is the key.




Exactly - proper prep is a must. I didn't mean that it CAN'T be done correctly at home - it's just that a lot of the ovens used aren't properly pre-heated, or can't recover fast enough to keep the temp hot enough. So then the part doesn't get enough "total heat" and isn't fully cured. It takes a separate thermometer; not the oven control; to monitor the temp to help make sure the oven stays hot enough, long enough, for the cycle.

On a related note - if a local pizza shop owner knew what his pizza oven was being used for after hours...


Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #555532
12/18/09 04:44 PM
12/18/09 04:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 872
Charlotte NC
D
DCI Offline
super stock
DCI  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 872
Charlotte NC
Quote:

Quote:


Not true. I can restore any powder just like you can any paint.




Yeah you can, but can the average guy touch up a powder coat in his home garage?



Yes he can. I am average guy in my garage doing it. If you can buff, wax and touch up your car you can do the same thing to powder. Any car guy can do it....

Aluminum test panel - prepped and bent back and forth until the Al breaks...the powder is still attached to the aluminum even in the middle of the break spot.



Steel panel hit with a hammer on the edge hard enough to seperate the metal...powder is still attached and not flaking.


same steel panel hit to dent it at least 1/8" and the powder has not let go even in the bottom of the dent.


When done right it is extremely durable!


"Turbo will be easiest, and at the HP level will also be easiest on parts. Spend the money to do it right, and you can build a 500 HP street motor that will live a long and happy life, and probably with a very basic short block." Those words must have left a bad taste in his mouth!
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? [Re: DCI] #555533
12/18/09 06:00 PM
12/18/09 06:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,874
Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
Stanton  Offline
Don't question me!
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,874
Ontario, Canada
Quote:

I can restore any powder just like you can any paint




Talk is cheap! So much for the damage, let's see the repairs !!!

Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? [Re: 1970RT] #555534
12/19/09 11:34 AM
12/19/09 11:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,572
Jacksonville Florida
elitecustombody Offline
pro stock
elitecustombody  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,572
Jacksonville Florida
I paint for a living and still choose properly done powdercoating over paint, it's way more durable,as the post above proves it well.

in most cases it's actually cheaper to powdercoat than paint,I mean custom paint, not rattle-can paint

Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? [Re: elitecustombody] #555535
12/19/09 12:15 PM
12/19/09 12:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 18,575
Dreaming of the 808
AZ_A12_BEE Offline
I Live Here
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Posts: 18,575
Dreaming of the 808
Quote:

I paint for a living and still choose properly done powdercoating over paint, it's way more durable,as the post above proves it well.

in most cases it's actually cheaper to powdercoat than paint,I mean custom paint, not rattle-can paint






69.5 A12 Bee, first purchased in 1976, car 169 on registry 69 Coronet R/T 440/4 spd 69 Coronet 500 Conv H code 383 4bbl/auto 37 Plymouth PU Find your spot on earth and ride it.
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? [Re: AZ_A12_BEE] #555536
12/19/09 01:00 PM
12/19/09 01:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,782
USA
J
JoesMopar Offline
master
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J

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,782
USA
Geez, I just use Rustoleum's "Hammered" Paint in their various colors to do different suspension parts and it looks and works great I think. Alot cheaper too since I don't have the money for a full blown trailer queen resto. And if it starts chipping or anything, just clean it and re-spray, can't even tell.

Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? [Re: Stanton] #555537
12/19/09 03:30 PM
12/19/09 03:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
DoctorDiff Offline
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Polson, MT
For fabricated parts, powder-coating is cheaper, easier, and more rust resistant than most paint.

I touch up semi-gloss powder-coat on a fairly regular basis. I feather edge with a DA sander and spot with semi-gloss paint.

Just like paint, surface preparation is the key to good adhesion.

Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? [Re: 1970RT] #555538
12/19/09 05:31 PM
12/19/09 05:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
I think the one comment made and overlooked is about coating failure on the hard/sharp edge of 1/8" items. Almost all coatings will fail under those conditions. Paint, plating does not build on a sharp corner well. Deburring/fine grinding the edges helps a lot. Sandblasting helps a little bit. Once a base metal is open to moisture, every coating will begin to fail except maybe galvanizing. I like the deburring, then plating, then powder coating plan, but a 2 part urethane with a good primer is pretty durable.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? [Re: jcc] #555539
12/19/09 06:17 PM
12/19/09 06:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,212
Minnesota
peabodyracing Offline
top fuel
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Posts: 2,212
Minnesota
Lots of good discussion here, but there are 3 or 4 basic issues that need to be understood. The edge failure mentioned early in the posting is typically due to one of two reasons: if the parts were stamped, the sharp edge remains and unless it's been blasted or otherwise leveled out, will only maintain a very light coating of powder. When the powder gets beyond the 'gel' state curing the cure cycle it starts to flow in order to create the desired finish and gloss. Flow agents are varied depending on how smooth/shiney the final product is designed to be. When the powder flows, it tends to leave the sharp edge and because you're left with such a thin coating, many times no coating there, you get an early rust failure.

The second reason is due to what's calle laser edge. If the laser shielding gas used to cut out parts is set up 'on the cheap' a carbon build up is left along the cut surface. The powder sticks to this laser edge just fine, but any impact causes the laser edge to break free from the parent metal. The result looks like a paint failure, but it's not.

Prep is vital. A good shop with use a multi stage pretreatment system even after sand blasting. The addition of an iron phosphate conversion coating adds to rust resistance and helps paint adhesion.
They used to use zinc phosphate which worked great but the EPA didn't like the heavy metals. Some locales have outlawed iron phosphates too because of sewage treatment plant concerns.

Chemical reistance can be greatly improved by using an epoxy powder coating. Other chemistries are optimized for UV resistance, ease of application, improved edge coverage, etc. Like everything in life, there are tradeoffs.

The cure cycle is very important. As mentioned elsewhere in this post the ramp up time and dwell time is important to create the desired end result. It also helps to have some air movement in the cure oven to remove any organics given off during the cure cycle.

You can touch up scratches and other damage in finished powder, but it isn't as straightforward as liquid on liquid because the touch up paint won't soak in to the powder. You need to rough up the surface some, usually with a scotbrite pad and may want to try using an adhesion promoter as well. The tough part is blending in the edges of the sprayed area.

We have a 50,000 sq foot powder coating facility but also cater to walk in business. Spend a fair amount of time with customers to make sure they know what their options and trade offs are. Even with that there's always one who apparently lost their common sense; like the Harley guy for whom we painted all his engine covers in a gray wrinkle and came back mad because they discolored when he sprayed oven cleaner on a hot engine.


Lead, follow or get the hell out of the way
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? [Re: peabodyracing] #555540
12/20/09 12:21 AM
12/20/09 12:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9
SW Missouri
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MoparLore Offline
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SW Missouri
I have powder coated my suspension parts in my garage with very good luck. I work in a tool and die shop, so I have access to a bead blaster and plenty of cleaning solvents. I'm not a pro, but trial and error have made me realize that prep is the key to it all. I had to rework some parts because I simply touched them with my bare hand after prepping them. Definitely must wear gloves and be careful of any type of contaminant. My car is driven regularly and I have not had any problems with any part that was powder coated. This includes almost everything from the K-frame to the rear end. I also used it to my steering column and some of the engine components.

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