Moparts
Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint?
Posted By: 1970RT
Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/16/09 07:05 PM
I have a k-frame and some other suspension components that I need to refinish. My question is, is powdercoating worth the extra expense over some type of paint? I want a good finish that will resist oil and grease but I don't really want to spend extra money for powdercoating if there is a paint that is as durable.
Posted By: Neil
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/16/09 07:13 PM
I had mine done. If you add up the price of a good quality paint, all the materials that go with it, and having to pay someone to blast and paint it for you if you can't do it at home then the price of painting doesn't look so affordable.
Posted By: Silver70
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/16/09 07:15 PM
I used a paint similar to por 15 and used a foam brush and reduced the paint some so it would lay nice and smooth. It's really strong and durable and looks almost just as good... and alot cheaper!
Posted By: donbarnes
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/16/09 08:49 PM
I think powdercoating is overhyped. I see it fail all the time, especially on brackets that have an edge on them, like ones made out of 1/8 inch steel. The coating fails right on the edge and starts rusting underneath. My Westin side rails on my Rubicon are doing it now, and already had to replace the KC light brackets for the same reason, only about a year old
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/16/09 08:55 PM
I also think it's overhyped. I see guys powder coating valve covers, fan blades and engien accessory brackets. Yeah it looks nice and is durable, but most of that stuff doesn't take any damage or contact once it's bolted in. Like your K frame. Do a decent job of cleaning it and painting it, what's going to happen? Unless you plan to take your car 4x4ing. It looks great, but whether it's worth the money is up to you.
Posted By: CYACOP
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/16/09 09:00 PM
I did my battery tray only, but the only reason was corrosion resistance, everything else has paint on it.
Posted By: mopars_1
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/16/09 09:02 PM
If i remember right, dayclona mentioned he used base/ clear coat paint on a lot of suspension parts and it seemed to work pretty good. not sure how the price between that and powercoating differs though.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/16/09 09:05 PM
Also one guy I know was getting something for his car powder coated, he said they charged him for the rack so he squeezed on as many odds and ends as he could. I would do the same in that situation.
Posted By: RokketRide
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/16/09 09:19 PM
Quote:
Also one guy I know was getting something for his car powder coated, he said they charged him for the rack so he squeezed on as many odds and ends as he could. I would do the same in that situation.
That's how I did it.
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/16/09 09:33 PM
Between how durable
properly prepped powdercoating is.. And what it costs when you get the right connection... I feel it's very worthwhile...
My cost for all this stuff was around $600.00 (I actually traded labor)
BTW if it peels around the edge that probably means they took the raw steel parts & powdercoated them without any prep... IE blast the steel to give it some mechanical adhesion..
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/16/09 09:34 PM
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Posted By: 1_WILD_RT
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/16/09 09:34 PM
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Posted By: 1_WILD_RT
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/16/09 09:35 PM
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Posted By: minivan
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/16/09 09:52 PM
I like powdercoating, but have had good luck with rust bullet type paints..
I buy the small HF sprayer and get a qt of paint and blast and clean the parts, sometimes ospho them... When the cheapy sprayer wears out I just throw it away and get another.....
PS. they never get cleaned very well either.. The Lacquer thinner costs more than the gun..
Posted By: yellow sixpack
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/16/09 10:34 PM
Worth the money!
Posted By: Stanton
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/16/09 10:55 PM
For years I've been having the kids' racing kart frames powder coated for 2 reasons:
1) it was easier than me blasting and painting them
2) one of the club members owned the company and did them for less than I could buy paint for
HOWEVER, the powder doesn't stand up to laquer thinner, brake cleaner, varsol or gas. While these chemicals won't strip it away, they will definately ruin finish.
There are paints out there that will easily stand up to these chemicals. If you paint the stuff yourself you can redo or touch up anything that gets buggered up in the future. This can't be said for powdercoat. If it dulls, chips, or whatever, you're screwed.
Yeah, all that stuff looks pretty sitting on a blanket, and it'll look real nice on a trailer queen, but let's see it on a driver after putting some wear and tear on it.
Posted By: generallee6901
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/16/09 11:10 PM
I had all the suspension pieces and engine pieces painted on my charger 6 years ago and still looks good.Is a lot easier to clean.But some chemicals will scratch it.Depending on the color it could be real noticable.While i do not drive my car very often it does get driven.I do not own a trailer and do take it on long drives and clean up is a lot easier.Defeinitly worth the cost if the person who does it does it right.I had my k-frame dipped before it was coated to get everything inside.
Posted By: prochargedhemi
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/16/09 11:17 PM
one thing to not overlook to is e-coating. that started out as a base for powdercoating and in my eyes is the BEST way to do it. you know it was thoroughly cleaned before paint (goes through a wash to remove any "light" oils) it gets submerged in a tank so it has paint EVERYWERE and the millage is perfect all the way across.
Posted By: DCI
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/17/09 12:15 AM
Quote:
HOWEVER, the powder doesn't stand up to laquer thinner, brake cleaner, varsol or gas. While these chemicals won't strip it away, they will definately ruin finish.
There are paints out there that will easily stand up to these chemicals. If you paint the stuff yourself you can redo or touch up anything that gets buggered up in the future. This can't be said for powdercoat. If it dulls, chips, or whatever, you're screwed.
Not true. I can restore any powder just like you can any paint. What do you do to restore faded paint? Do the same thing to powder. I can touch up customer chips no matter it if is smooth or textured powder. If you get a solvent on it just give a wax with anything you would use on you normal paint job...good as new. You can even wet sand and buff it like you would a high $$$ paint job.
I have parts on cars that have been driven regularly for years and it still looks brand new. I have lawn chairs that have sat outside year around for years and still look nice and glossy to this day. I can prep and coat a Q panel with powder and beat it to death with a sledgehammer and the panel dents but the powder never lets go.
If PREPPED and applied correctly powder is far tougher than any normal realistically priced paint out there.
Lot of bad coaters out there and when done wrong powder is weaker than paint.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/17/09 12:22 AM
Quote:
Not true. I can restore any powder just like you can any paint.
Yeah you can, but can the average guy touch up a powder coat in his home garage?
Posted By: Evil Spirit
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/17/09 01:24 AM
Applied CORRECTLY, powder coat is extremely durable. Unfortunately, a lot of it gets a bad reputation because of the people trying to do it at home in their Easy Bake oven. Just like with paint, proper prep is critical. Every thing that I have sent for coating I dressed the sharp edges of brackets, chamfered bolt holes, and if possible SAND blasted (not bead blasted - too smooth) for good adhesion. (which is also needed for a proper coat of paint!) I have parts that are over 15 yrs old and with a quick wipe down look new. I also had the bottom of the box let loose on a freshly coated batch of pulleys, bkts, etc. hit the concrete floor - and NOT ONE CHIP. It's just like with paint - there are HVLP jobs and then there are rattle can jobs.
Posted By: moparmojo
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/17/09 01:39 AM
Well sounds like you may have some professional experience with this. I think the poster wants to know if the extra money is worth it to have parts powder coated. I know a couple guys quoted some prices, but around here powder coating is fairly expensive. I think a couple guys were wanting like $175-$250 to powder coat a single K frame. And on top of that they seemed to indicate getting other colors or finishes were extra costs and would be a time delay concern because they only ran color batches at a time. So even though the poster may not be doing the work himself if he went the powder coat route, there may be a long delay in getting it all done. So for the money is it really worth it. A guy at home to could a fairly nice job with quality paint and probably get a good hard finish in the color he wants.
Posted By: Chucklehead
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/17/09 02:34 AM
Quote:
Applied CORRECTLY, powder coat is extremely durable. Unfortunately, a lot of it gets a bad reputation because of the people trying to do it at home in their Easy Bake oven. Just like with paint, proper prep is critical. Every thing that I have sent for coating I dressed the sharp edges of brackets, chamfered bolt holes, and if possible SAND blasted (not bead blasted - too smooth) for good adhesion. (which is also needed for a proper coat of paint!) I have parts that are over 15 yrs old and with a quick wipe down look new. I also had the bottom of the box let loose on a freshly coated batch of pulleys, bkts, etc. hit the concrete floor - and NOT ONE CHIP. It's just like with paint - there are HVLP jobs and then there are rattle can jobs.
It can be prep and applied correctly at home. I have done it and it is like paint, if the prep work is not right the results are poor quality. The powder cures by heat, it does not care if it is an old oven in your garage or infrared heater or some high $$$ commercial oven. I have used both infrared (for large parts) and an oven with great results at home.
The finishes hold up fine.
Prep work is the key.
Posted By: Evil Spirit
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/17/09 05:30 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Applied CORRECTLY, powder coat is extremely durable. Unfortunately, a lot of it gets a bad reputation because of the people trying to do it at home in their Easy Bake oven. Just like with paint, proper prep is critical. Every thing that I have sent for coating I dressed the sharp edges of brackets, chamfered bolt holes, and if possible SAND blasted (not bead blasted - too smooth) for good adhesion. (which is also needed for a proper coat of paint!) I have parts that are over 15 yrs old and with a quick wipe down look new. I also had the bottom of the box let loose on a freshly coated batch of pulleys, bkts, etc. hit the concrete floor - and NOT ONE CHIP. It's just like with paint - there are HVLP jobs and then there are rattle can jobs.
It can be prep and applied correctly at home. I have done it and it is like paint, if the prep work is not right the results are poor quality. The powder cures by heat, it does not care if it is an old oven in your garage or infrared heater or some high $$$ commercial oven. I have used both infrared (for large parts) and an oven with great results at home.
The finishes hold up fine.
Prep work is the key.
Exactly - proper prep is a must. I didn't mean that it CAN'T be done correctly at home - it's just that a lot of the ovens used aren't properly pre-heated, or can't recover fast enough to keep the temp hot enough. So then the part doesn't get enough "total heat" and isn't fully cured. It takes a separate thermometer; not the oven control; to monitor the temp to help make sure the oven stays hot enough, long enough, for the cycle.
On a related note - if a local pizza shop owner knew what his pizza oven was being used for after hours... 
Posted By: DCI
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/18/09 08:44 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Not true. I can restore any powder just like you can any paint.
Yeah you can, but can the average guy touch up a powder coat in his home garage?
Yes he can. I am average guy in my garage doing it. If you can buff, wax and touch up your car you can do the same thing to powder. Any car guy can do it....
Aluminum test panel - prepped and bent back and forth until the Al breaks...the powder is still attached to the aluminum even in the middle of the break spot.
Steel panel hit with a hammer on the edge hard enough to seperate the metal...powder is still attached and not flaking.
same steel panel hit to dent it at least 1/8" and the powder has not let go even in the bottom of the dent.
When done right it is extremely durable!
Posted By: Stanton
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/18/09 10:00 PM
Quote:
I can restore any powder just like you can any paint
Talk is cheap! So much for the damage, let's see the repairs !!!
Posted By: elitecustombody
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/19/09 03:34 PM
I paint for a living and still choose properly done powdercoating over paint, it's way more durable,as the post above proves it well.
in most cases it's actually cheaper to powdercoat than paint,I mean custom paint, not rattle-can paint
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/19/09 04:15 PM
Quote:
I paint for a living and still choose properly done powdercoating over paint, it's way more durable,as the post above proves it well.
in most cases it's actually cheaper to powdercoat than paint,I mean custom paint, not rattle-can paint
Posted By: JoesMopar
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/19/09 05:00 PM
Geez, I just use Rustoleum's "Hammered" Paint in their various colors to do different suspension parts and it looks and works great I think. Alot cheaper too since I don't have the money for a full blown trailer queen resto. And if it starts chipping or anything, just clean it and re-spray, can't even tell.
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/19/09 07:30 PM
For fabricated parts, powder-coating is cheaper, easier, and more rust resistant than most paint.
I touch up semi-gloss powder-coat on a fairly regular basis. I feather edge with a DA sander and spot with semi-gloss paint.
Just like paint, surface preparation is the key to good adhesion.
Posted By: jcc
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/19/09 09:31 PM
I think the one comment made and overlooked is about coating failure on the hard/sharp edge of 1/8" items. Almost all coatings will fail under those conditions. Paint, plating does not build on a sharp corner well. Deburring/fine grinding the edges helps a lot. Sandblasting helps a little bit. Once a base metal is open to moisture, every coating will begin to fail except maybe galvanizing. I like the deburring, then plating, then powder coating plan, but a 2 part urethane with a good primer is pretty durable.
Posted By: peabodyracing
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/19/09 10:17 PM
Lots of good discussion here, but there are 3 or 4 basic issues that need to be understood. The edge failure mentioned early in the posting is typically due to one of two reasons: if the parts were stamped, the sharp edge remains and unless it's been blasted or otherwise leveled out, will only maintain a very light coating of powder. When the powder gets beyond the 'gel' state curing the cure cycle it starts to flow in order to create the desired finish and gloss. Flow agents are varied depending on how smooth/shiney the final product is designed to be. When the powder flows, it tends to leave the sharp edge and because you're left with such a thin coating, many times no coating there, you get an early rust failure.
The second reason is due to what's calle laser edge. If the laser shielding gas used to cut out parts is set up 'on the cheap' a carbon build up is left along the cut surface. The powder sticks to this laser edge just fine, but any impact causes the laser edge to break free from the parent metal. The result looks like a paint failure, but it's not.
Prep is vital. A good shop with use a multi stage pretreatment system even after sand blasting. The addition of an iron phosphate conversion coating adds to rust resistance and helps paint adhesion.
They used to use zinc phosphate which worked great but the EPA didn't like the heavy metals. Some locales have outlawed iron phosphates too because of sewage treatment plant concerns.
Chemical reistance can be greatly improved by using an epoxy powder coating. Other chemistries are optimized for UV resistance, ease of application, improved edge coverage, etc. Like everything in life, there are tradeoffs.
The cure cycle is very important. As mentioned elsewhere in this post the ramp up time and dwell time is important to create the desired end result. It also helps to have some air movement in the cure oven to remove any organics given off during the cure cycle.
You can touch up scratches and other damage in finished powder, but it isn't as straightforward as liquid on liquid because the touch up paint won't soak in to the powder. You need to rough up the surface some, usually with a scotbrite pad and may want to try using an adhesion promoter as well. The tough part is blending in the edges of the sprayed area.
We have a 50,000 sq foot powder coating facility but also cater to walk in business. Spend a fair amount of time with customers to make sure they know what their options and trade offs are. Even with that there's always one who apparently lost their common sense; like the Harley guy for whom we painted all his engine covers in a gray wrinkle and came back mad because they discolored when he sprayed oven cleaner on a hot engine.
Posted By: MoparLore
Re: Powdercoating: Is it worth the cost over paint? - 12/20/09 04:21 AM
I have powder coated my suspension parts in my garage with very good luck. I work in a tool and die shop, so I have access to a bead blaster and plenty of cleaning solvents. I'm not a pro, but trial and error have made me realize that prep is the key to it all. I had to rework some parts because I simply touched them with my bare hand after prepping them. Definitely must wear gloves and be careful of any type of contaminant. My car is driven regularly and I have not had any problems with any part that was powder coated. This includes almost everything from the K-frame to the rear end. I also used it to my steering column and some of the engine components.