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Re: welding race cars
[Re: bonefish]
#547938
12/07/09 10:16 AM
12/07/09 10:16 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I use Lincoln welders, I have a 220 version mig but the day I bought it I bought a heavier gun and cable for it... the one that comes on it is pretty wimpy. I also have their tig unit. I would suggest a brand name unit so you can get parts for it easy 
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Re: welding race cars
[Re: bonefish]
#547940
12/07/09 10:37 AM
12/07/09 10:37 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
i was lookin at the lincolns and millers ,but really dont know witch modle would suite my needs,i have a little lincoln mig pac 10,it works great for thin brackets and such but what specs or modle #should i be looking for to meet my needs?
I have a 170T but its a few years old... I would look
at 170 to 195 range.... that'll do most anything
for a hobbyist... make sure you get the bottle
attachment... dont waste your time with core wire
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Re: welding race cars
[Re: justinp61]
#547943
12/07/09 11:03 AM
12/07/09 11:03 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Buy the biggest you can afford. I have a Miller 210 mig and a Miller Syncrowave 250DX stick/tig. At some point I will buy a Miller 252 mig though.
I would like to buy a bigger tig... something in
the 250-300 range... when I'm welding on intakes
I have to pre-heat alot of them
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Re: welding race cars
[Re: joshking440]
#547945
12/07/09 11:22 AM
12/07/09 11:22 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
If you were to learn one type of welding and had not much previous experience, I would definetly buy a tig. Much more versatile, you cant weld chrome-moly with a mig, or most other metals other than just good old mild steel. I am also of the opinion that to learn to tig is much easier, but that is jsut my opinion
Mig welding is much easier(IMO), I do all of it but
if you can move you hand and get the sound of bacon
frying you are mig welding... it'll weld moly, mild, and SS
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Re: welding race cars
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#547946
12/07/09 11:49 AM
12/07/09 11:49 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
justinp61
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
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Quote:
Quote:
If you were to learn one type of welding and had not much previous experience, I would definetly buy a tig. Much more versatile, you cant weld chrome-moly with a mig, or most other metals other than just good old mild steel. I am also of the opinion that to learn to tig is much easier, but that is jsut my opinion
Mig welding is much easier(IMO), I do all of it but
if you can move you hand and get the sound of bacon
frying you are mig welding... it'll weld moly, mild, and SS
 Don't forget aluminum.
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Re: welding race cars
[Re: bonefish]
#547948
12/07/09 12:33 PM
12/07/09 12:33 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Unless you do it for a living or do it alot, M.I.G. is the way to go. Forgiving, easy to learn, good for out-of-position welding. Go with a gas system verses flux core. I bought a used HTP 140 a few years back. Runs off of 110, has pause and weld time controls ( stitch welding ) and can easily weld up to 1/4". Makes an amateur ( that would be me ) look good.
Fastest 300
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Re: welding race cars
[Re: justinp61]
#547949
12/07/09 12:33 PM
12/07/09 12:33 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If you were to learn one type of welding and had not much previous experience, I would definetly buy a tig. Much more versatile, you cant weld chrome-moly with a mig, or most other metals other than just good old mild steel. I am also of the opinion that to learn to tig is much easier, but that is jsut my opinion
Mig welding is much easier(IMO), I do all of it but
if you can move you hand and get the sound of bacon
frying you are mig welding... it'll weld moly, mild, and SS
Don't forget aluminum.
Yeah that also but you need a separate liner or
another cable... I was just referring to simple stuff
but the mig is a very versatile machine
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Re: welding race cars
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#547950
12/07/09 12:57 PM
12/07/09 12:57 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If you were to learn one type of welding and had not much previous experience, I would definetly buy a tig. Much more versatile, you cant weld chrome-moly with a mig, or most other metals other than just good old mild steel. I am also of the opinion that to learn to tig is much easier, but that is jsut my opinion
Mig welding is much easier(IMO), I do all of it but
if you can move you hand and get the sound of bacon
frying you are mig welding... it'll weld moly, mild, and SS
Don't forget aluminum.
Yeah that also but you need a separate liner or
another cable... I was just referring to simple stuff
but the mig is a very versatile machine
Yes, it is a little more of a hassle switching between steel and aluminum. If you do a lot of aluminum work too, your best bet is to buy a complete seperate cable / liner and gun all set up for the aluminum wire size you normally use. Don't scimp on the helmet ether. Auto-darkening for sure and get one with a big lense ( especially if you ware glasses )that has adjustable darkening, sensitivity and delay features. Mine is a "Kobalt". Probably one of the least expensive helmets that still has all the above mentioned features.
Fastest 300
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Re: welding race cars
[Re: Crizila]
#547951
12/07/09 01:02 PM
12/07/09 01:02 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,590
Indy
joshking440
Lunch is on me!
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Lunch is on me!
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,590
Indy
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If you were to learn one type of welding and had not much previous experience, I would definetly buy a tig. Much more versatile, you cant weld chrome-moly with a mig, or most other metals other than just good old mild steel. I am also of the opinion that to learn to tig is much easier, but that is jsut my opinion
Mig welding is much easier(IMO), I do all of it but
if you can move you hand and get the sound of bacon
frying you are mig welding... it'll weld moly, mild, and SS
Don't forget aluminum.
Yeah that also but you need a separate liner or
another cable... I was just referring to simple stuff
but the mig is a very versatile machine
Yes, it is a little more of a hassle switching between steel and aluminum. If you do a lot of aluminum work too, your best bet is to buy a complete seperate cable / liner and gun all set up for the aluminum wire size you normally use. Don't scimp on the helmet ether. Auto-darkening for sure and get one with a big lense ( especially if you ware glasses )that has adjustable darkening, sensitivity and delay features. Mine is a "Kobalt". Probably one of the least expensive helmets that still has all the above mentioned features.
Now i am pretty sure that to weul chrome moly and have it certify, it must be tigged, and if you ever want to weld stainless or aluminum and have it look really good you need to tig it. but just my opinion
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Re: welding race cars
[Re: joshking440]
#547952
12/07/09 01:15 PM
12/07/09 01:15 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If you were to learn one type of welding and had not much previous experience, I would definetly buy a tig. Much more versatile, you cant weld chrome-moly with a mig, or most other metals other than just good old mild steel. I am also of the opinion that to learn to tig is much easier, but that is jsut my opinion
Mig welding is much easier(IMO), I do all of it but
if you can move you hand and get the sound of bacon
frying you are mig welding... it'll weld moly, mild, and SS
Don't forget aluminum.
Yeah that also but you need a separate liner or
another cable... I was just referring to simple stuff
but the mig is a very versatile machine
Yes, it is a little more of a hassle switching between steel and aluminum. If you do a lot of aluminum work too, your best bet is to buy a complete seperate cable / liner and gun all set up for the aluminum wire size you normally use. Don't scimp on the helmet ether. Auto-darkening for sure and get one with a big lense ( especially if you ware glasses )that has adjustable darkening, sensitivity and delay features. Mine is a "Kobalt". Probably one of the least expensive helmets that still has all the above mentioned features.
Now i am pretty sure that to weul chrome moly and have it certify, it must be tigged, and if you ever want to weld stainless or aluminum and have it look really good you need to tig it. but just my opinion
Don't know about the certification thing, but no two ways that T.I.G. is the way to go - in the hands of a professional. I am no where near an expert when it comes to welding ( or metalergy ), and I would not attempt to weld up a $2K set of heads, etc, but I would have no qualms about welding up suspension stuff - from a strength standpoint.
Fastest 300
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Re: welding race cars
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#547954
12/07/09 04:55 PM
12/07/09 04:55 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
justinp61
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If you were to learn one type of welding and had not much previous experience, I would definetly buy a tig. Much more versatile, you cant weld chrome-moly with a mig, or most other metals other than just good old mild steel. I am also of the opinion that to learn to tig is much easier, but that is jsut my opinion
Mig welding is much easier(IMO), I do all of it but
if you can move you hand and get the sound of bacon
frying you are mig welding... it'll weld moly, mild, and SS
Don't forget aluminum.
Yeah that also but you need a separate liner or
another cable... I was just referring to simple stuff
but the mig is a very versatile machine
I have a spool gun and my Miller has the "gun on demand" feature. So which ever gun I pick up it's always hot.
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Re: welding race cars
[Re: Sixpak]
#547956
12/07/09 06:40 PM
12/07/09 06:40 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Maybe one of the pro-welders out there can answer this: I always thought the reason that chrome moly could not be migged because mig uses a 'mild steel' rod and/or w/copper coating and that the mixing/welding together of mild steel or other metals not similar to chrome moly causes weld embrittlement. So why not MIG with chrome moly wire instead?
Their main concern is that you can over heat the
tubing with a mig, the tig concentrates the heat more
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Re: welding race cars
[Re: gregsdart]
#547959
12/07/09 09:03 PM
12/07/09 09:03 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
I am fabbing up some upper control arms out of moly tube. Would it be safe to mig weld the tube ends and ball joint part on with mild steel wire?
Sure, you can use a ER70s-6 wire for that... be sure
to drill 2 holes in the tube (one on each side) so
when you insert the threaded insert you can do a puddle
weld to it(hope you see what I'm saying)
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Re: welding race cars
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#547963
12/07/09 11:11 PM
12/07/09 11:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 456
corpus christi tex
Cheatham
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 456
corpus christi tex
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Quote:
Only down side is my bottle rent is more than I'd like.
What do you give for a bottle and what size...whats
the price for argon
the ones i priced was a 4 foot tall bottle i dont know how its classified but its about 4ft tall and to purchase was going to be 180.00. I was lucky and a friend had one sitting around and let me have it refills are about 24.00.
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Re: welding race cars
[Re: moparlulu]
#547966
12/07/09 11:43 PM
12/07/09 11:43 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Mr P, I rent 4 bottles 1 of each of these sizes K, Q, S, WQ rent is $36 a month Plus I own 3 s's and a q. For the big bottles of 100% argon it cost $78 to fill. For our "Norgas" its 75%-23% and it has a touch of oxygen and helium runs $63 for the big bottle. Oxygen in a q runs about $45 and the acetylene is about $38 to fill.
I bought all of my bottles... well almost all, I
got 1 330 cuft bottle from work when we changed gas
companies... anyways I gave $90 for my 120 cuft bottles
4 are my 75-25 argon/co2 and 2 are argon, my 330
is also straight argon... cost is about $18 to fill
my 120 bottles and $45 for the 330(might be a little
more now... I havent filled them for almost 8 months)
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Re: welding race cars
[Re: Dave Watt]
#547967
12/08/09 01:14 AM
12/08/09 01:14 AM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,360
Mobile Alabama
SB412DUSTER
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,360
Mobile Alabama
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Quote:
TIG welding can be extremely difficult to do if you are laying on your back under a car, you would need a thumb control because you can't be pressing the pedal while laying down.
Thats what the side of your leg is for 
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Re: welding race cars
[Re: SB412DUSTER]
#547968
12/08/09 01:15 AM
12/08/09 01:15 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
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Quote:
Quote:
TIG welding can be extremely difficult to do if you are laying on your back under a car, you would need a thumb control because you can't be pressing the pedal while laying down.
Thats what the side of your leg is for
duct tape it to your foot.
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Re: welding race cars
[Re: SB412DUSTER]
#547969
12/08/09 09:12 AM
12/08/09 09:12 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 764
NW Pa.
KD800X
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 764
NW Pa.
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Quote:
Quote:
TIG welding can be extremely difficult to do if you are laying on your back under a car, you would need a thumb control because you can't be pressing the pedal while laying down.
Thats what the side of your leg is for
Been there!
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Re: welding race cars
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#547970
12/08/09 09:37 AM
12/08/09 09:37 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
justinp61
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
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Quote:
Quote:
Mr P, I rent 4 bottles 1 of each of these sizes K, Q, S, WQ rent is $36 a month Plus I own 3 s's and a q. For the big bottles of 100% argon it cost $78 to fill. For our "Norgas" its 75%-23% and it has a touch of oxygen and helium runs $63 for the big bottle. Oxygen in a q runs about $45 and the acetylene is about $38 to fill.
I bought all of my bottles... well almost all, I
got 1 330 cuft bottle from work when we changed gas
companies... anyways I gave $90 for my 120 cuft bottles
4 are my 75-25 argon/co2 and 2 are argon, my 330
is also straight argon... cost is about $18 to fill
my 120 bottles and $45 for the 330(might be a little
more now... I havent filled them for almost 8 months)
You guys are buying you're gas cheap  , the last time I filled my 80 bottle with 75/25 it was $42  . When I bought my 210 I also bought the bottle, it cost the same to buy it as it would to pay two five year leases.
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Re: welding race cars
[Re: justinp61]
#547971
12/08/09 11:22 AM
12/08/09 11:22 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 388
Michigan
SD800
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 388
Michigan
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When I took my Challeger to have it certified the first question the guy asked was what did you weld it with a 110 volt or 220 volt mig welder? We used a 220 volt and I asked why he asked, he said if we had used a 110 volt he would not certify it, got my sticker 25.4 certified!!!
You'll have plenty of time to sleep when your dead, let's go
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Re: welding race cars
[Re: SD800]
#547972
12/08/09 11:50 AM
12/08/09 11:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,686
Phoenix, AZ
Comp_Chassis
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,686
Phoenix, AZ
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If you are planning on doing a lot of fabrication I would certainly suggest going with a larger 220 volt machine. Sometimes the little 110 machines can provide the penetration on thinner items, but you will always be running the machine at its maximum and it will burn up quickly.
We repaired a car years ago that was built with a 110 welder. The welds all looked beautiful, except that the first time they let go of the trans brake the rear end spun backwards out of the car. The roll cage was also installed with the same welder. We cut one of the door bars by the floor and just popped the other weld right off the main hoop by pulling on it.
Tig machines will weld anything you will come across, but it is slow and labor intensive compared to mig welding. Not to mention, sometimes its hard enough to get a mig gun into some places on a race car, now think about getting the tig torch, your other hand and filler rod in there, your head in a position so you can see the puddle and then throw also trying to operate the foot pedal all at the same time.
As for shielding gas. Obviously with a tig you are pretty much stuck with argon. With the mig there are various mixes you can use. I have tried several of the different mixes over the years and I have always gone back to using just straight CO2. Last time I filled a large bottle it was like $25, lasts about 3-4 times longer than mix gas and Ive always been happier with the welds.
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Re: welding race cars
[Re: Comp_Chassis]
#547973
12/08/09 12:23 PM
12/08/09 12:23 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
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Just go striaght to the TIG. Learn to weld with this maybe even take a night coarse at the local Tech college if need be.
I also suggest owning a Mig for little easy jobs like a lawn mower deck etc.
Get at least a 140 amp Mig
And that new Miller Diversion looks to be a nice little welder.
[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
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Re: welding race cars
[Re: SD800]
#547974
12/08/09 01:53 PM
12/08/09 01:53 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,590
Indy
joshking440
Lunch is on me!
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Lunch is on me!
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,590
Indy
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Quote:
When I took my Challeger to have it certified the first question the guy asked was what did you weld it with a 110 volt or 220 volt mig welder? We used a 220 volt and I asked why he asked, he said if we had used a 110 volt he would not certify it, got my sticker 25.4 certified!!!
I dont know who certified your car, but I know Tom Block in Michigan and he would not certify a chrome-moly anything that was not tig welded
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Re: welding race cars
[Re: joshking440]
#547975
12/08/09 02:23 PM
12/08/09 02:23 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
When I took my Challeger to have it certified the first question the guy asked was what did you weld it with a 110 volt or 220 volt mig welder? We used a 220 volt and I asked why he asked, he said if we had used a 110 volt he would not certify it, got my sticker 25.4 certified!!!
I dont know who certified your car, but I know Tom Block in Michigan and he would not certify a chrome-moly anything that was not tig welded
No one should if it was moly and migged
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Re: welding race cars
[Re: SD800]
#547978
12/08/09 10:31 PM
12/08/09 10:31 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,590
Indy
joshking440
Lunch is on me!
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Lunch is on me!
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,590
Indy
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
When I took my Challeger to have it certified the first question the guy asked was what did you weld it with a 110 volt or 220 volt mig welder? We used a 220 volt and I asked why he asked, he said if we had used a 110 volt he would not certify it, got my sticker 25.4 certified!!!
I dont know who certified your car, but I know Tom Block in Michigan and he would not certify a chrome-moly anything that was not tig welded
No one should if it was moly and migged
The chassis is mild steel, that's why it was mig welded.
 its all coming together now
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I think for the hobbyist the 211 is perfect for the occasional project. 
