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Re: UPDATED 540 Indy bullet now on the Dyno, UPDATED !
[Re: arc]
#507956
03/26/10 10:33 PM
03/26/10 10:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
cudabin
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
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No doubt a vacuum pump would pick it up a notch, but I will see what the evac and smaller nozzles do first, then we may try a pump... Wild Bill, I am amazed how much higher in rpm you found peak HP. Mine peaked at 6,800 and yours went to 7,400? Also i have more cam and bigger 345cc heads. I guess the extra cubes pull the power peak down a lot in my case? I can hardly wait for the next pull  Cheers, Arnie
67 Cuda 8.48@ 158.7 mph 1.18 60' 2,600 DA(so far...)
70 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 4-speed. 13.2 @ 104 Stock exhaust/Street tires.
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Re: UPDATED 540 Indy bullet now on the Dyno, UPDATED !
[Re: 440Jim]
#507959
03/27/10 01:30 PM
03/27/10 01:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
cudabin
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
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Hey hardcore B, The lifters are Brian's from IMM special roller lifters with offsets on the intake, and oiling to the bearings. Lifter bores were bronze bushed with oiling holes to push rod oil. Comp 3/8" .080 wall push rods. Jesel pro rockers and K-motion K1000H springs. I need to check the installed height and pressures and will post later. Jim, they bypassed their normal gas fuel system to measure bsfc, and used a FAST sensor. The A/F was 5.5 - 5.8 throughout the pull (Alcohol scale) Water temp started at 156 at 5,000 rpm and was up to 161 at 7,100 rpm. Oil temp was not shown on the sheet i got. I will ask them to fill all of that onto the sheet for the next pull. since they were using 37 nozzles with a 96 pill, i am very interested to see what the header evac and better fuel atomization with the 36 nozzles will do!  Cheers, Arnie
67 Cuda 8.48@ 158.7 mph 1.18 60' 2,600 DA(so far...)
70 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 4-speed. 13.2 @ 104 Stock exhaust/Street tires.
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Re: UPDATED 540 Indy bullet now on the Dyno, UPDATED !
[Re: cudabin]
#507960
03/27/10 01:47 PM
03/27/10 01:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
RemCharger
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
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Hey Arnie, Great #'s! All I can say about vac pumps is, other guys with similar builds are all using them. There will be a nice match-up concerning cudas out there,,,  Make sure you trust "the guy" doing the tuning...He knows his stuff! And when he's done, hopefully he'll have time to freshen up some Charger junk...  Which brings me to another question... Do you still have a regular transport running from here to there?   I need to get those heads down there, which I should have done off the bat..   [edit]Oops.. didn't realize you're not in Regina.. 
Last edited by RemCharger; 03/27/10 03:18 PM.
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Re: UPDATED 540 Indy bullet now on the Dyno, UPDATED !
[Re: cudabin]
#507961
03/27/10 01:53 PM
03/27/10 01:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,384
Upstate NY
Bigcube
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,384
Upstate NY
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Quote:
No doubt a vacuum pump would pick it up a notch, but I will see what the evac and smaller nozzles do first, then we may try a pump...
Wild Bill, I am amazed how much higher in rpm you found peak HP. Mine peaked at 6,800 and yours went to 7,400? Also i have more cam and bigger 345cc heads. I guess the extra cubes pull the power peak down a lot in my case?
I can hardly wait for the next pull
Cheers,
Arnie
Not sure why yours peaked lower then mine. I run a 4.5" stroke, little less head flow but about the same CC. Mine seemed to have 2 peak numbers. One at 6800 (851.6) and the other at 7200(852.6). Cam in mine is 753I/.730E, 281I/288E, 112 lobe sep.
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Re: UPDATED 540 Indy bullet now on the Dyno, UPDATED !
[Re: cudabin]
#507962
03/27/10 01:56 PM
03/27/10 01:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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"Jesel pro rockers and K-motion K1000H springs."
I broke a lot of stuff running those K1000H springs. Jesel rocker bearings (knocked the needle cages out)broken springs, roller lifters. Went to comp 947 springs and promtly picked up .11 in the 1/8th, absolutely no other changes.
I was never quite sure if it was the springs or the cam I had till I talked to the folks at Manton pushrods. Terry (owner) put me in touch with his dad, who is a spring engineer. He had nothing good to say about those springs.
He stated the cycle rate on the Comp 947s was such that the bad spots are 4,000 and 8,000 rpm. I never run long at either spot, so they work for me.
There are other springs out there with much better dynamics, which might even fit your retainers. I bet you two boxes of K1000h springs you will pick up at least 20 hp!
If I win, you can keep em. Buy me a Coke when we meet!
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: UPDATED 540 Indy bullet now on the Dyno, UPDATED !
[Re: gregsdart]
#507963
03/27/10 04:34 PM
03/27/10 04:34 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
MRMOPAR622
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
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I have a 4.50 bore 4.15 stroke with twin Terminators,572-13 heads. With a Cam Motion 283/292-799/752. With 38 nozzels and a #89 pill in the return it heated up like it was on gas. Put 39 nozzels and a #80 pill in the return run much better. In a few weeks may start with what I had last year and try some 40 nozzels.
Don't be afraid to riched it up some.
What timing are you running on yours? I run 35 on mine,plan on moving the timing some to see if it will pick up(on the track). Not sure if I should retard or advance first. Now would be a good time to try some timing changes with it on the Dyno.
Last edited by MRMOPAR570; 03/27/10 04:35 PM.
"To Be The Man'You Have Got To Beat The Man"
"T/D and Pro-Bracket Racer"
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Re: UPDATED 540 Indy bullet now on the Dyno, UPDATED !
[Re: MRMOPAR622]
#507964
03/27/10 05:12 PM
03/27/10 05:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
cudabin
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
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Hey Greg, I will ask the engine builder about those K1000H springs. I had some comp springs in the 470 and was breaking them due to some wierd harmonics...
MRMopar570, As for nozzle size, we are going to try it with the 37's still in it and using the header evac which should pull 5 - 6" vacuum. If blowby is reduced, we may be able to reduce the pill size and keep the 37's ??
But so far it seems like it does not want more fuel. Timing is at 34 degrees. We can play with that once the blowby is reduced.
Arnie
67 Cuda 8.48@ 158.7 mph 1.18 60' 2,600 DA(so far...)
70 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 4-speed. 13.2 @ 104 Stock exhaust/Street tires.
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Re: UPDATED 540 Indy bullet now on the Dyno, UPDATED !
[Re: cudabin]
#507965
03/27/10 06:56 PM
03/27/10 06:56 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
MRMOPAR622
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
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cudabin, on another post a week or two ago someone raised thier timing up to 40 degrees and pick up power. Back in the 80's we used to run 38-42 degrees. The only reason I changed back was that I was told to run 35 degrees. I guess the 38-42 is old school,but if it works. The good thing for you is the dyno will tell you if it works.
Greg, I wish I had seen this post about 3 weeks ago. I have just brought another set of K1000H valve springs to replace my old set of K1000H springs.
"To Be The Man'You Have Got To Beat The Man"
"T/D and Pro-Bracket Racer"
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Re: UPDATED 540 Indy bullet now on the Dyno, UPDATED !
[Re: MRMOPAR622]
#507966
03/28/10 09:03 AM
03/28/10 09:03 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
MRMOPAR622
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
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cudabin, While your engine is on the dyno it might would be helpful if you could get about 5 gals. of VP M5 to try. I have been told you can use the same nozzels and go down 4 sizes on the pill in the return(richer)and pick up about .15 in the 1/8 mile by a man who is really sharp on running Terminators on alcohol.
"To Be The Man'You Have Got To Beat The Man"
"T/D and Pro-Bracket Racer"
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Re: UPDATED 540 Indy bullet now on the Dyno, UPDATED !
[Re: MRMOPAR622]
#507967
03/28/10 10:46 AM
03/28/10 10:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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"Greg, I wish I had seen this post about 3 weeks ago. I have just brought another set of K1000H valve springs to replace my old set of K1000H springs. "
Feeling bad about having two boxes of those, I asked if there was a use for them in another setup. I was told no. The design has flaws. Sorry for the downer, but after my experience, I understand how powerful advertising has been on me. See something enough, and a guy will believe it is OK.
I wound up chasing my tail through two sets of springs, a bunch of very expensive jesel rockers to replace broken parts, and two sets of rollerlifters. I was fanatical about checking lash. All this in less than 100 passes.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: UPDATED 540 Indy bullet now on the Dyno, UPDATED !
[Re: cudabin]
#507968
03/28/10 11:05 AM
03/28/10 11:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928
NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 16,928
NC
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Quote:
Jim, they bypassed their normal gas fuel system to measure bsfc, and used a FAST sensor. The A/F was 5.5 - 5.8 throughout the pull (Alcohol scale)
With the stoichiometric ratio for Methanol at 6.4, that is a ratio (Lambda) of .859-.906
I think methanol might like richer than that. But I am no expert on that. The few months I ran methanol, I was in the range of Lambda .83-.84, ie only slightly richer than your numbers.
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Re: UPDATE #2 540 Indy bullet back on the Dyno !
[Re: 440Jim]
#507969
04/21/10 06:40 PM
04/21/10 06:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
cudabin
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
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We changed cams adding some exhaust duration up to 294 from 288. Also added a vacuum pump with a small crank pulley which built 5 inches vac, With the smaller 36 nozzles and an 86 pill at 36 degrees timing it made 895HP at 6,900 rpm. The vacuum pump and cam change added 35HP I can't wait to get an ET slip to back up these numbers  In reality though we don't get to race at sea level, so the HP will be down a bit at 4,000 feet DA. Wonder how much that will hurt Cheers, Arnie
67 Cuda 8.48@ 158.7 mph 1.18 60' 2,600 DA(so far...)
70 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 4-speed. 13.2 @ 104 Stock exhaust/Street tires.
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Re: UPDATE #2 540 Indy bullet back on the Dyno !
[Re: B1HEAD_USER]
#507972
04/22/10 01:16 AM
04/22/10 01:16 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
cudabin
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
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The cam did not reduce blowby much, but did contribute to the HP hanging on longer after the peak, and the peak moved up from 6,800 to 6,900 rpm. That will help a lot! Without the Vac pump, we reduced blowby somewhat with the smaller nozzles, but HP went down as well from 859 down to 810Hp. For what ever reason, this motor seems to need the Vac pump to seal the rings. I guess Alum block is part of the problem?  Hey Greg, Thanks for the prediction. The car should weigh 2,700 - 2,750#'s so an 8.90 will be the goal!!! I appreciated all your advice and help, and tried to follow your direction Cheers, Arnie
67 Cuda 8.48@ 158.7 mph 1.18 60' 2,600 DA(so far...)
70 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 4-speed. 13.2 @ 104 Stock exhaust/Street tires.
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Re: UPDATE #2 540 Indy bullet back on the Dyno !
[Re: cudabin]
#507973
04/22/10 11:15 AM
04/22/10 11:15 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
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Watch the plug gap on that engine...You cant run a .045-.050 gap on Alky. I had changed plugs one week and the next outing I had lost .05 and several MPH in near identical conditions. I had changed only a few things, and spark plugs was one of them.. After beating my head silly, I pulled the plugs and gapped them to .030-.035..The car picked up the next pass and bested my best pass.  If its tuned correctly the engine should gain about 8-10 deg from launch to the stripe. If it doesnt gain any temp, its too fat, back it off one pill size, or 4 numbers. retest. You gotta look fast on the other end, a few moments afer you let off the fuel the engine will cool down pretty fast.  I never dyno'd the wedge, but looking at my notes the last few races it had 36 nozzle and a 90 bypass pill. Use the smaller nozzle and tune with the pills first, then fine tune with the nozzles. Sounds like your close. Hope this helps
[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
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Re: UPDATE #2 540 Indy bullet back on the Dyno !
[Re: Bob_Coomer]
#507974
04/22/10 11:23 AM
04/22/10 11:23 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
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Also the tune on the barrel valve arm makes a huge diff. I tried this and that...I ended up setting my barrel valve with a leak down tester and feeler gauge. I cant recall what numbers I finally arrived at but about 24% leak down at idle and about .018-.020 or so throttle blade clearance.. for a base lengthen the arm until you have a hesitation when you snap the throttle open. now shorten/fatten the rod until the hesitation goes away. Give it two more flats on the rod. Remember also if you adjust the idle screw it changes everything.
[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
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Re: UPDATE #2 540 Indy bullet back on the Dyno !
[Re: cudabin]
#507975
04/22/10 11:59 AM
04/22/10 11:59 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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Quote:
The cam did not reduce blowby much, but did contribute to the HP hanging on longer after the peak, and the peak moved up from 6,800 to 6,900 rpm. That will help a lot!
Without the Vac pump, we reduced blowby somewhat with the smaller nozzles, but HP went down as well from 859 down to 810Hp.
For what ever reason, this motor seems to need the Vac pump to seal the rings. I guess Alum block is part of the problem?
Hey Greg,
Thanks for the prediction. The car should weigh 2,700 - 2,750#'s so an 8.90 will be the goal!!!
I appreciated all your advice and help, and tried to follow your direction
Cheers,
Arnie
You will never get the rings to seal on an aluminum block as well as on an iron one-especially if the block is not filled.
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