Does anyone have any experience with the ICCA manuals from MMC Detroit? Are they a good guide for restoration? Or are there others that would be reccomended?

Thanks

Yes they are an excellent source of information. They are the best available restoration aids on the market. Contact Dave Wise @ ICCA and get your hands on one!

I have both the fastener guide and the judging guide. I've used the fastener guide 10x more than the judging guide. Could be that my project isn't far along enough, but figured I would throw that out there.

.....sorry, not impressed. Too veg and have found may discrepancies.

Just my

The fasteners guides I use on a regular basis. the restoration guide , not so much.

IMO , they are/would be great resource IF other sources were not avail. OR to a novice.
I have one and haven't opened it more than 5 or 6 times.

I mean no dis-respect, I know the the author and felt this was a huge undertaking on his part. But the information is constantly changing and added to the fact it's easier to get and cheaper on the net. NOT that the info found on the net is always right,,,,,,, but at least one has access to a larger info pool to pull from

Dave W,
Your point is very well made. The ICCA B and E Reference Manual and the B and E Body Guide to Fastener Manual are intended to be “reference” guides. These manuals have been in print for over 7 years and we have "always been open" to suggestions of how to make the information as accurate as possible and better understood by users of all knowledge levels within the hobby.

These reference manuals have been assembled by individually within the Mopar collector car hobby that continuously strive to provide the best and most accurate information available relating the judging, restoration and preservation of Mopar’s every day. Everyone involved in the compiling of this information realize that there are variations in assembly process, manufacturing process,vendors, materials and parts used at different plants at various points with a given production year. That is why the information in the manual will always be dynamic and we will never give up striving to assembly the best and most accurate information available. Revisions and additions will be implemented as information is objectively obtained and presented to the ICCA.

Please feel free to contact me at dave@mmcdetroit.com with your suggestions of if you are are interested in sharing information that you have discovered and want to contribute this information into the manuals for the advancement of the Mopar hobby and/or are interested in being part of the ICCA.

ICCA/ MMC Detroit Guiding Statements:
Mission Statement:
To continuously strive to enhance and advance the Mopar Automobile collector hobby.
Our Quality Policy:
To provide products and services that meet or exceed your expectations at a fair price.
Our Goal:
To be a trusted resource for reliable information, products, and services.
Our Objective:
To share the information and knowledge acquired over the past 50+ years with our customers

Hey Master Dave! Good to hear from you. I personally want to thank you for your efforts with everything you have provided to this hobby. You were probably the first friend to reach out to ECS/me years ago and offer a helping hand when we first started. My previous comments include anyone who has tried to research and document information for this hobby. The other venues have the exact same problems that Chrysler folks think are non existent to them. I work with Ford and GM everyday and can assure you that the grass is not always greener. Personally, I am guilty of the "knee jerk" reaction I mentioned in my earlier post. Every project has allowed me to realize what is NOT known in the restoration World. I have come to the conclusion that if you restored a thousand cars, you would STILL be faced with a quagmire of questions and uncertainties. All one can do is move forward and do the best they can to provide the facts as they are uncovered.

History never changes....only our perception and understanding of it!

Hi Dave W.

It's great to see you back here again!

Tav

Thanks all! I understand how things work in manufacturing and know that there can be variances. With that in mind let me ask the questions a little differently. With the info in these books what percentage of the questions in this forum could be answered? I understand that the books are model specific and one book wouldn't answer questions for all models. I am just trying to get a feel for what I would be getting for my money. Their webpage has a few sample pages but they aren't that helpful.

It just depends on what type of question is being asked.

The ICCA books don't have info on how to adjust parts like the factory service manual does.

They also don't have info on how to decode you tag/broadcast sheet like Galens white books.

They do have a few assembly diagrams for reference, but not as detailed as a full set of engineering diagrams.

Mainly, the ICCA books deal with verifying your car parts are correct, which can also provide you with info on what to look for if you're missing something. Usually the info is correct, but if you think it might not be/doesn't match what you have, you might want to double check with a known original car, or ask here on moparts.

Personally, I'd like to see more coding info in the ICCA restoration/judging manual. (The passenger mirror & screws on a car might appear correct, but if the car isn't supposed to have a passenger mirror in the first place, shouldn't some points be deducted?)

The sample pages on the website are a bit out of date. I had issues with that before. They are a good example of the format used in the manuals, but the information on the sample pages (especially the E body gauges) had some errors that have been corrected.

Tav

The best tools in restoring any car is your own two eyes and experience. You gain experience by doing, not reading a book that tells you how to do things. I can see how a manual might open a few doors and shine some light on things. BUT the problem is when things are in BLACK and WHITE they become LAW and some of the people that write the book thinks that there above the law.

People try to hide facts and findings because there not sure how things happened back in the day.....sometimes there are no answers. Why are some fender tags bent with one painted screw and others are not?? Why are some fender tags painted and others are not?? These are simple questions but there are no definite answers. What does the ICCA book say on the topic of bent and painted fender tags?

Thanks for the feedback. It sounds like we are on the right track with the information that is in and on the web site, fasteners manuals and reference manuals. We are always trying to improve. Please tell me specifically what you would like to see by make, model, year, assembly period and plant and we will do our best to provide more information moving forward.

Recently worked with Roger Wilson who operates the 1970 GTX Registry and through his efforts we significantly updated all related information relating to the GTX trim and some points relating to the 1970 Road Runner in all manuals. Roger took the time to provide me with marked up pages and suggestions that were immediately into the applicable manual.

TAV thanks for commenting on the observations of the E body IP. We all owe that upgrade to Mike Mancini who provided us with marked up pages, photographs and suggestions that were implemented.

I’m currently working with Jim Ridge of Dixie Restorations to ensure that the information on the starters and alternators information is as accurate as possible.

We are working with Byron Fettig now of the Dakota Connection in the development of the 1968-70 Dodge Charger, Coronet R/T and Super Bee manual.

I have a list of over 40 contributors from all over the world that we have acknowledged in the front of the manual, that have taken the time to provide us with information because they believe in what we are trying to do to improve the Mopar Collector Car hobby. Because of these individuals the ICCA is able to continue to compile and assembly the best source for reference information to assist moving the hobby forward in the world.

Please feel free to contact me at dave@mmcdetroit.com with your suggestions of if you are interested in sharing information that you have discovered and want to contribute this information into the manuals for the advancement of the Mopar hobby and/or are interested in being part of the ICCA.

Dave, you must realize that any answers you provide will put you on the wrong side of the equation in one way or another. People admit that there are countless alternatives to a scenario yet they demand additional information towards a definitive conclusion. Your information manuals are based primarily on the engineered drawings and the assembly instructions that were provided by the Chrysler Corporation. For our hobby, this is a win-win situation. If a person does not have a survivor type vehicle to reference, then their only alternative is to rely on the information of how it was INTENDED to be done. If a person is lucky enough to have an unmolested vehicle, the original characteristics should still be evident and your publications will add insight as to why things were performed in a certain fashion. People shouldn't blame the "Speed Limit" because some find a way to exceed or violate it's intended instruction. The factory had a definite engineered way of doing things. The employees who carried out the "Plan" put their individual touch on the final results. It is certainly easier to work with and understand the facts than to try and force a square peg in a round hole.
Thank you once again for the thousands of hours you have dedicated and sacrificed in order to help simplify everyone's restoration efforts!

Dave,

I just received my ICCA Judging Manual and it is a great reference source.

I can only make one suggestion as an enhansment and that is that it would be helpful if the photo's were in color. Unfortunately, that would probably more than double the cost. Just a thought.