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Challenger Stereo Crossover Question #436799
08/13/09 03:06 PM 08/13/09 03:06 PM
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Rhode Island
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I am redoing the dash in my '70 Challenger with AM/8-Track. The car has the stereo wiring harness but no fader or crossover. I purchased the crossover box, but I can't find where it mounts in the car. I know it goes behind the glove box, but I can't find any existing screw holes in the dash frame or firewall area on the car where its supposed to go.

Where is the correct location for the box? Is the crossover box only for rear speaker cars, or for all AM/8-track cars?

The car is a 3-speaker dash car and still has the original speakers in place. There are rear speakers, but they are aftermarket so I can't confirm they are original. No broadcast sheet to confirm rear speaker or not, fender tag is R22, AM/8-Track.

Thanks, Joe
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: 71 Six Pack] #436800
08/13/09 03:29 PM 08/13/09 03:29 PM
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Pinelands , NJ
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mine screwed on the side of the glove box. screws went inside the glove box, through the cardboard and into the cross over box. oh, on the side facing the driver side not the passenger door side.
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: joelson6] #436801
08/13/09 03:45 PM 08/13/09 03:45 PM
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DOH!!

I can see the two holes on the Driver side of the glove box, the crossover holes lign up perfect. Thanks,

Joe
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: 71 Six Pack] #436802
08/13/09 04:24 PM 08/13/09 04:24 PM
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Richmond, VA
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Could someone possibly post a pic of the holes in the glovebox as I have to mount mine on an NOS box & not sure of the location. Thanks.

Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: rayztoy] #436803
08/13/09 04:53 PM 08/13/09 04:53 PM
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I attached a pic of my glovebox with the two holes on the Passenger side.

Joe

5415504-gbox.jpg (683 downloads)
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: rayztoy] #436804
08/13/09 04:54 PM 08/13/09 04:54 PM
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Another pic with the crossover box in place.

Joe

5415507-xover.jpg (791 downloads)
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: 71 Six Pack] #436805
08/13/09 08:54 PM 08/13/09 08:54 PM
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Great pics of the glove box holes!! Thanks!

Any chance we could get some measurements while you've got it out?

The crossover box is required with all 3 speaker dashes. The same crossover box is used on cars with two rear speakers.

On your stereo two rear speakers were an extra option. I'm not sure if it would be coded on the fender tag. If I remember right, the 1970 rear speaker code is R31. AM radios with that code got one rear speaker, and stereo radios got two rear speakers. In 71 the code for two rear speakers was changed to R32.

If you have rear speakers the fader switch is different depending on if you have a standard dash or a rally dash. Standard dash speaker fader was up by the gauges. Rallye dash speaker fader was down by the heater controls. AM radio cars use a fader with one pot for a single rear speaker. Stereo radio cars use a fader with two pots for two rear speakers.

Tav
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436806
08/14/09 05:09 PM 08/14/09 05:09 PM
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The measurements are as follows:

Bottom hole is 2 and 3/8" from back of glove box and 2" from top of glove box. Top hole is 5 and 3/8" from back of glove box and 1" from top of glove box.

I did not know that about the fader knobs. I am currently looking for the Standard dash fader now, it's the only piece I'm missing to get the radio working. I have standard dash knob and bezel, but the switch has the wires cut. Will a rallye fader switch work if I change the knob and bezel over to correct standard dash knob and bezel?

Joe

5417692-xovermeasure.jpg (411 downloads)
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: 71 Six Pack] #436807
08/15/09 01:26 PM 08/15/09 01:26 PM
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You GUYS are Great!!!!! Joe, Tav, Thank you!

Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: 71 Six Pack] #436808
08/15/09 07:21 PM 08/15/09 07:21 PM
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Quote:


I have standard dash knob and bezel, but the switch has the wires cut. Will a rallye fader switch work if I change the knob and bezel over to correct standard dash knob and bezel?




I think it would, but I've never tried. The person to ask would be bigmoneylewis. He's a member here on moparts and is the mopar radio guru.

Thanks for the measurements!

Tav
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436809
08/15/09 07:30 PM 08/15/09 07:30 PM
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Here's the standard dash speaker fader. This is a 74 challenger, but should be the same for all years 70-74.

I'm looking for measurements for this too if you've got them.

Tav
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436810
08/15/09 07:34 PM 08/15/09 07:34 PM
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Here's a standard dash fader installed in the rallye location.

Tav
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436811
08/15/09 07:35 PM 08/15/09 07:35 PM
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Rallye dash fader front...

Tav

5419732-1.JPG (473 downloads)
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436812
08/15/09 07:36 PM 08/15/09 07:36 PM
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Rallye dash fader rear...

Tav

5419734-2.JPG (403 downloads)
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436813
08/15/09 07:37 PM 08/15/09 07:37 PM
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Rallye dash fader exploded view...

Tav

5419735-3.JPG (467 downloads)
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436814
08/15/09 07:38 PM 08/15/09 07:38 PM
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Rallye dash fader exploded view 2...

Tav

5419736-4.JPG (571 downloads)
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436815
08/15/09 07:42 PM 08/15/09 07:42 PM
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Here's a B body fader for 2 rear speakers. It has a shorter shaft than the E body units.

Tav
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436816
08/15/09 07:44 PM 08/15/09 07:44 PM
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Rallye fader installed.

Tav
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436817
08/15/09 07:46 PM 08/15/09 07:46 PM
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Single rear speaker fader for standard dash. (R11 radio)

Tav
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436818
08/15/09 09:18 PM 08/15/09 09:18 PM
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This turned out to be a really good thread.

I saw it for a while but never looked at it until now.

The speaker fader knob broke on dad's Challenger years ago. He bought an NOS knob kit somewhere but never installed it. I just happened to find it yesterday and took a look at the contense. It came with more components than I thought the car needed. I now see...by reading this thread...that the kit contains both the rallye dash and standard dash pieces.

Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436819
08/15/09 11:11 PM 08/15/09 11:11 PM
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Rhode Island
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Quote:

Here's the standard dash speaker fader. This is a 74 challenger, but should be the same for all years 70-74.

I'm looking for measurements for this too if you've got them.

Tav



If no one posts measurements today I will post them Sunday. I have two Standard dash bezels with the fader hole on them, one is the rare '70 only model than I am using for my car.

Joe
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: 71 Six Pack] #436820
08/15/09 11:21 PM 08/15/09 11:21 PM
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That would be great to have measurements for both if they're not the same.

Thanks!
Tav
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: burdar] #436821
08/15/09 11:25 PM 08/15/09 11:25 PM
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Quote:

the kit contains both the rallye dash and standard dash pieces.



So what pieces are different? Is it just as simple as swapping the knob & bezel?

Tav
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436822
08/16/09 08:01 AM 08/16/09 08:01 AM
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And don't forget...The rallye dash fader knob and bezel are being reproduced.... Wilson productions A good quality repop assembly...

Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: screamindriver] #436823
08/16/09 08:55 AM 08/16/09 08:55 AM
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Here is a picture of what came in the kit. Do the standard and Rallye dashes take a different knob? The picture posted earlier showed that the knobs were the same, but the kit I have shows a different knob. It is just to the left of the standard dash speaker bezel. I also don't know what the srews and nuts are for. Maybe it will be self explanitory when I get into the dash.

5420371-v1x004.jpg (353 downloads)
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: burdar] #436824
08/16/09 10:14 AM 08/16/09 10:14 AM
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I'd guess that the kit is universal for a lot of different mopars. I'm sure the knob on the left is correct for rallye dashes. I haven't seen many standard dash knobs, but it looks like they also use the one on the left in your pic. I'm not sure what mopar the knob on the right is for.

Of the standard dash knobs I posted above, clearly the standard knob in the rallye location has been fiddled with, but the 74 Challenger was bought new by a father and inherited by his son. The son repainted the exterior only in the original color, other than that and maintenance items, it is untouched. I couldn't say for certain though that the knob didn't break and get replaced like yours as one of the maintenance items. Do you still have a piece of your original broken standard dash knob? Which style is it?

Tav
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436825
08/16/09 10:24 AM 08/16/09 10:24 AM
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It's the one on the left.
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436826
08/16/09 05:00 PM 08/16/09 05:00 PM
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I measured my '70 standard dash fader location and a '71-4 standard dash fader location and both are the same. I also have a clock hole in both a '70 and '71-4 standard bezel and both measurements are the same. The photo is kind of confusing but I put all the measurements on there.

Joe

5421262-fadermeasure.JPG (281 downloads)
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436827
08/16/09 05:06 PM 08/16/09 05:06 PM
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Regarding the standard dash fader knob. The standard dash bezel I bought at Carlisle this year had a single pot fader switch already on it. The knob looks to be the same as the Rallye knob. Based on the info supplied by poster Burdar on his replacement kit I purchased a Rallye fader switch and am going to try and swap over the standard dash knob and bezel. The ones I have on the bezel I bought are not in great shape so I will look into getting better ones though.

Joe

5421270-faderknob.JPG (267 downloads)
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: 71 Six Pack] #436828
08/16/09 09:15 PM 08/16/09 09:15 PM
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What did a car with 3 speaker dash and no rears come with?
I have one of those boxes and can find it kinda easy if need be

[img]https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee87/fast340six/sig%20pics/2840886-340SIX-1.jpg[/img]
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73 Dart Sport 340/ 70 challenger vert. That may still get built, If I live long enough
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: 340SIX] #436829
08/16/09 11:29 PM 08/16/09 11:29 PM
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Quote:

What did a car with 3 speaker dash and no rears come with?




All AM FM and AM 8-track stereo E body cars used
a crossover box , and it's the same box weather you had 3 or 5 speakers ,if that's what you are asking. The big difference is the wiring harness , where a 5 speaker car will have a plug for the rear speaker harness as well as a plug for the fader . Those plugs are not found on a 3 speaker harness.
The crossover box takes the left / right stereo channels and creates the 3rd ,center channel . The crossover also sends the lower bass sound to the center dash speaker, and the higher sounds to the outboard dash speakers.

Also , 1 last tidbit , if you are looking for a 3 speaker stereo underdash harness , and all you find is a 5 speaker, You can still use it for your 3 speaker application, however, you MUST have a fader plugged in for it to work, You can even use a C body fader (and harness for that matter) Just fade it all the way to the front speakers and leave the fader out of sight behind the dash .
If you don't plug in a fader, you will get no sound at all out of your radio .


Greg

Wards Classic Car Radio Repair Specializing in restoration and sales of Mopar A B E body radios
We can restore YOUR radio usually in less than 14 days
Visit our NEW website..
http://www.wardsclassiccarradiorepair.com
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Last edited by BigMoneyLewis; 08/16/09 11:37 PM.
gregward@mchsi.com phone 256-852-0955
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: BigMoneyLewis] #436830
08/17/09 12:58 AM 08/17/09 12:58 AM
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Thanks for the info Greg. That confirms my car was a 5-speaker car. The radio harness has the plug for the crossover, one for the fader switch, as well as the one for that goes to the rear speakers. Once I get the fader switch in I plan on connecting it up and testing it. If it doesn't work, I'll send it your way.

Joe
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: 71 Six Pack] #436831
08/18/09 12:19 AM 08/18/09 12:19 AM
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Thank you very much for the measurements!!

Here's the rallye fader measurements to complete the set.

Tav
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: 71 Six Pack] #436832
08/18/09 12:24 AM 08/18/09 12:24 AM
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3 speaker vs. 5 speaker wiring diagrams

Tav
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: 71 Six Pack] #436833
08/18/09 12:27 AM 08/18/09 12:27 AM
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crossover & 5 speaker harness

Not sure if this harness would be different depending on fader location.

Tav
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436834
08/18/09 12:35 AM 08/18/09 12:35 AM
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front speaker harness

Tav
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436835
08/18/09 12:37 AM 08/18/09 12:37 AM
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rear speaker harness

clips to the bracing behind the rear seat.

Tav
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436836
08/18/09 09:38 AM 08/18/09 09:38 AM
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passenger dash speaker wiring

Tav

5424732-stereowiring2.jpg (365 downloads)
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436837
08/18/09 09:40 AM 08/18/09 09:40 AM
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crossover wiring

Tav

5424736-stereowiring.jpg (323 downloads)
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: 71 Six Pack] #436838
08/18/09 09:52 AM 08/18/09 09:52 AM
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Quote:

I am redoing the dash in my '70 Challenger with AM/8-Track.



Hopefully you've already got these pieces?
all 3 unique 70 challenger dash speaker grills

the ribbed radio surround plate to match your standard cluster bezel.

the 70 challenger dash trim with 8 track notch. That will be the toughest find I think.


If you end up needing a package tray with speaker slots, Dave Walden at ECS has the most correct ones, textured with the right # of slots. The REM ones everyone else sells are smooth and use a GM slot style. (few people would ever notice the difference, so it's up to you)

Tav
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436839
08/18/09 10:34 AM 08/18/09 10:34 AM
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Quote:

Hopefully you've already got these pieces?
all 3 unique 70 challenger dash speaker grills

the ribbed radio surround plate to match your standard cluster bezel.

the 70 challenger dash trim with 8 track notch. That will be the toughest find I think.



I have almost all the pieces. I am just waiting on a rallye fader switch I purchased to come in the mail. The AM/8-Track bezel was pricey to say the least. The rear package tray in the car is original and in good shape. I am missing the correct rear defogger set up with the rear speakers though. When I bought the car the rear defogger was mounted on the support beam behind the rear seat.

The hardest thing to find is the correct labeling for the switch panel. This car has a 2-spd Wiper, and therefore a footpump washer. Finding the correct label for standard dash was difficult because I also need the rear defogger on it. I was able to use the one from my '71 Cuda for now which is also a 2spd Wiper with rear defog car. The repop labels I have seen pics of always have he Wipe/Wash when the rear defogger is there instead of just Wiper.

Joe
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: 71 Six Pack] #436840
08/18/09 01:33 PM 08/18/09 01:33 PM
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Sounds like you have a really nice car with lots of options!

The housings for rear speaker with rear defog are available reproduction from Mike at BE&A restoration parts. I haven't seen the reproduction piece in person because I have an original, but usually his stuff is top notch.

The clips that hold the wiring to the bracing behind the seat can be tough to find also. If you can't find them, you might try using dome light wiring clips that clip on the sail panel behind the headliner, or trim down some cuda roadlamp wiring clips which are also available from Mike at BE&A.

Tav
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436841
08/18/09 01:37 PM 08/18/09 01:37 PM
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Oh, I almost forgot, you mentioned putting the optional clock in your 70 Challenger standard cluster.

This is the correct 70 Challenger standard cluster only clock. (either style would fit & function, only lettering/needles are different.)

Tav
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436842
08/18/09 01:39 PM 08/18/09 01:39 PM
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for comparison, here is the 71-74 Challenger & 70-74 Barracuda standard cluster clock.

I've heard the clock set knob itself and tube nut are the same as used on a rallye dash and are also available reproduction from Mike at BE&A if you need them.

Tav
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436843
08/19/09 09:09 PM 08/19/09 09:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 100
Rhode Island
71 Six Pack Offline OP
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I'm pretty sure the clock I have is a '71 style. I don't know if the car came with one from the factory or not as there was a Rallye dash in the car when I bought it. There is no indication for tach on the fender tag so I figured the car came with a standard cluster. I never liked the blank plate on the standard dash where the clock should be so I pulled the clock from my Cuda's standard cluster as I plan on putting the Rallye cluster in the Cuda (too much Black otherwise, needs some woodgrain to dress it up).

As far as options go it is definitely an odd ball car. EB7 with the V1G top. 383 2bbl motor. Power Windows, AC, Molding Group, and AM/8-Track for the main options. I don't remember seeing the Rear Defogger on the Fender Tag, but the car had it when I bought it so I'm keeping it. The car is an LA plant car and also has California emissions.

Joe
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: 71 Six Pack] #436844
08/19/09 11:48 PM 08/19/09 11:48 PM
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Florida
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cataclysm80 Offline
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Sounds like my kind of car.

I agree, it probably came with a standard dash.

Rear defog didn't require any sheetmetal changes, so it probably wouldn't be coded on the fender tag. No way to know for sure without the broadcast sheet.

I'm curious about your molding group...A63 right? What other M codes appear on the fender tag?

Tav
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436845
08/20/09 05:36 AM 08/20/09 05:36 AM
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Rhode Island
71 Six Pack Offline OP
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There is no A63, only the M21 Drip Rail Moldings code on the tag. The car has the stainless trim around the grill opening on the front valence, as well as the back of the hood and fenders, and top of the doors (belt molding).

Joe

5429055-DSC01820.jpg (202 downloads)
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: 71 Six Pack] #436846
08/20/09 09:22 AM 08/20/09 09:22 AM
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cataclysm80 Offline
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That's interesting. Since those molding require alterations to the sheetmetal of the car (holes in doors & quarters), they should be on the fender tag. An SE car would have M31 on the tag, and a non-SE with that trim would have both A63 & M31 I think. I'd have to suspect they're not factory on your car, but since you've got them, might as well enjoy them. I know I would.

Does your car have the astrotone tailpanel molding (like the SE's) that also came with the A63 molding package? Does your car have rear seat ash trays?

Tav
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436847
08/20/09 04:42 PM 08/20/09 04:42 PM
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Car was repainted so I don't know about the astrotone. No rear seat ashtrays.

Joe
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: 71 Six Pack] #436848
08/20/09 05:14 PM 08/20/09 05:14 PM
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cataclysm80 Offline
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The astrotone tail panel molding is a very large aluminum trim piece that covers all of the tail panel above the tail lights and both ends of the tail panel trim on the quarters are grafted into it. It requires extra holes all along the top edge of the tail lights for clips to hold it in place. Doesn't sound like you have it on your car. If your car ever had it, and doesn't now, then the sheetmetal holes for the trim clips would have had to be filled to keep the trunk from leaking.

Tav

5430038-tailpanel1.jpg (175 downloads)
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: cataclysm80] #436849
09/07/12 03:12 PM 09/07/12 03:12 PM
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Wisconsin
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I know it is an old thread but very informative and worth bringing back.

Does anyone know what the difference it between the fader that has the 6 prong plug on the back, vrs the fade that has wires attached to it?

1971 Hemi Cuda 2005 SRT-10 Regular Cab Flame Red. 12.771 @ 109.67<---TIME SLIP--Video
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: Mopar_Mudder] #436850
09/07/12 03:23 PM 09/07/12 03:23 PM
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Alabama
BigMoneyLewis Offline
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Quote:

I know it is an old thread but very informative and worth bringing back.

Does anyone know what the difference it between the fader that has the 6 prong plug on the back, vrs the fade that has wires attached to it?



The fader with dual pots , 6 wires ,is for stereo radios.
Fader with 3 wires, single pot, is for a mono radio.

Greg

gregward@mchsi.com phone 256-852-0955
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: BigMoneyLewis] #436851
09/07/12 03:32 PM 09/07/12 03:32 PM
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Wisconsin
Mopar_Mudder Offline
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So any chance you can tell me which one this is?

1971 Hemi Cuda 2005 SRT-10 Regular Cab Flame Red. 12.771 @ 109.67<---TIME SLIP--Video
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: Mopar_Mudder] #436852
09/07/12 05:55 PM 09/07/12 05:55 PM
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Alabama
BigMoneyLewis Offline
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That's a mono fader .Notice It only has 3 wires going into it. It is used on AM cars with a single front and single rear speaker.
On the 1970 E body ,a stereo fader would be used with a 5 speaker system , 3 in the dash and 2 in the rear. It would require a diffrent harness as well which would include a crossover box.
Greg

gregward@mchsi.com phone 256-852-0955
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: BigMoneyLewis] #436853
09/07/12 06:41 PM 09/07/12 06:41 PM
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Wisconsin
Mopar_Mudder Offline
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Quote:

That's a mono fader .Notice It only has 3 wires going into it. It is used on AM cars with a single front and single rear speaker.
On the 1970 E body ,a stereo fader would be used with a 5 speaker system , 3 in the dash and 2 in the rear. It would require a diffrent harness as well which would include a crossover box.
Greg



Thanks for the help, won't be buying that one then

1971 Hemi Cuda 2005 SRT-10 Regular Cab Flame Red. 12.771 @ 109.67<---TIME SLIP--Video
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: Mopar_Mudder] #436854
05/30/14 03:06 PM 05/30/14 03:06 PM
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Parsippany, New Jersey
340challconvert Offline
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Great old post on the wiring of challenger cuda stereos including the use of the crossover box.
thank you
340challconvert

1970 A-66 340 Challenger convertible
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question [Re: 340challconvert] #2773088
05/10/20 09:04 AM 05/10/20 09:04 AM
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North Dakota
6PakBee Offline
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I know this is an old, old post but does anyone have a wiring schematic of the crossover box internals? I haven't been able to find a complete box and am probably going to try to make one. Thanks.

Edit: Just bought one off Ebay, I'll find out what's in it!

Last edited by 6PakBee; 05/11/20 02:31 PM.
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