Moparts
Challenger Stereo Crossover Question
Posted By: 71 Six Pack
Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/13/09 07:06 PM
I am redoing the dash in my '70 Challenger with AM/8-Track. The car has the stereo wiring harness but no fader or crossover. I purchased the crossover box, but I can't find where it mounts in the car. I know it goes behind the glove box, but I can't find any existing screw holes in the dash frame or firewall area on the car where its supposed to go.
Where is the correct location for the box? Is the crossover box only for rear speaker cars, or for all AM/8-track cars?
The car is a 3-speaker dash car and still has the original speakers in place. There are rear speakers, but they are aftermarket so I can't confirm they are original. No broadcast sheet to confirm rear speaker or not, fender tag is R22, AM/8-Track.
Thanks, Joe
Posted By: joelson6
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/13/09 07:29 PM
mine screwed on the side of the glove box. screws went inside the glove box, through the cardboard and into the cross over box. oh, on the side facing the driver side not the passenger door side.
Posted By: 71 Six Pack
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/13/09 07:45 PM
DOH!!
I can see the two holes on the Driver side of the glove box, the crossover holes lign up perfect. Thanks,
Joe
Posted By: rayztoy
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/13/09 08:24 PM
Could someone possibly post a pic of the holes in the glovebox as I have to mount mine on an NOS box & not sure of the location. Thanks.
Posted By: 71 Six Pack
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/13/09 08:53 PM
I attached a pic of my glovebox with the two holes on the Passenger side.
Joe
Posted By: 71 Six Pack
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/13/09 08:54 PM
Another pic with the crossover box in place.
Joe
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/14/09 12:54 AM
Great pics of the glove box holes!! Thanks!
Any chance we could get some measurements while you've got it out?
The crossover box is required with all 3 speaker dashes. The same crossover box is used on cars with two rear speakers.
On your stereo two rear speakers were an extra option. I'm not sure if it would be coded on the fender tag. If I remember right, the 1970 rear speaker code is R31. AM radios with that code got one rear speaker, and stereo radios got two rear speakers. In 71 the code for two rear speakers was changed to R32.
If you have rear speakers the fader switch is different depending on if you have a standard dash or a rally dash. Standard dash speaker fader was up by the gauges. Rallye dash speaker fader was down by the heater controls. AM radio cars use a fader with one pot for a single rear speaker. Stereo radio cars use a fader with two pots for two rear speakers.
Tav
Posted By: 71 Six Pack
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/14/09 09:09 PM
The measurements are as follows:
Bottom hole is 2 and 3/8" from back of glove box and 2" from top of glove box. Top hole is 5 and 3/8" from back of glove box and 1" from top of glove box.
I did not know that about the fader knobs. I am currently looking for the Standard dash fader now, it's the only piece I'm missing to get the radio working. I have standard dash knob and bezel, but the switch has the wires cut. Will a rallye fader switch work if I change the knob and bezel over to correct standard dash knob and bezel?
Joe
Posted By: rayztoy
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/15/09 05:26 PM
You GUYS are Great!!!!! Joe, Tav, Thank you!
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/15/09 11:21 PM
Quote:
I have standard dash knob and bezel, but the switch has the wires cut. Will a rallye fader switch work if I change the knob and bezel over to correct standard dash knob and bezel?
I think it would, but I've never tried. The person to ask would be bigmoneylewis. He's a member here on moparts and is the mopar radio guru.
Thanks for the measurements!
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/15/09 11:30 PM
Here's the standard dash speaker fader. This is a 74 challenger, but should be the same for all years 70-74.
I'm looking for measurements for this too if you've got them.
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/15/09 11:34 PM
Here's a standard dash fader installed in the rallye location.
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/15/09 11:35 PM
Rallye dash fader front...
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/15/09 11:36 PM
Rallye dash fader rear...
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/15/09 11:37 PM
Rallye dash fader exploded view...
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/15/09 11:38 PM
Rallye dash fader exploded view 2...
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/15/09 11:42 PM
Here's a B body fader for 2 rear speakers. It has a shorter shaft than the E body units.
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/15/09 11:44 PM
Rallye fader installed.
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/15/09 11:46 PM
Single rear speaker fader for standard dash. (R11 radio)
Tav
Posted By: burdar
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/16/09 01:18 AM
This turned out to be a really good thread.
I saw it for a while but never looked at it until now.
The speaker fader knob broke on dad's Challenger years ago. He bought an NOS knob kit somewhere but never installed it. I just happened to find it yesterday and took a look at the contense. It came with more components than I thought the car needed. I now see...by reading this thread...that the kit contains both the rallye dash and standard dash pieces.
Posted By: 71 Six Pack
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/16/09 03:11 AM
Quote:
Here's the standard dash speaker fader. This is a 74 challenger, but should be the same for all years 70-74.
I'm looking for measurements for this too if you've got them.
Tav
If no one posts measurements today I will post them Sunday. I have two Standard dash bezels with the fader hole on them, one is the rare '70 only model than I am using for my car.
Joe
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/16/09 03:21 AM
That would be great to have measurements for both if they're not the same.
Thanks!
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/16/09 03:25 AM
Quote:
the kit contains both the rallye dash and standard dash pieces.
So what pieces are different? Is it just as simple as swapping the knob & bezel?
Tav
Posted By: screamindriver
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/16/09 12:01 PM
And don't forget...The rallye dash fader knob and bezel are being reproduced....
Wilson productions A good quality repop assembly...
Posted By: burdar
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/16/09 12:55 PM
Here is a picture of what came in the kit. Do the standard and Rallye dashes take a different knob? The picture posted earlier showed that the knobs were the same, but the kit I have shows a different knob. It is just to the left of the standard dash speaker bezel. I also don't know what the srews and nuts are for. Maybe it will be self explanitory when I get into the dash.
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/16/09 02:14 PM
I'd guess that the kit is universal for a lot of different mopars. I'm sure the knob on the left is correct for rallye dashes. I haven't seen many standard dash knobs, but it looks like they also use the one on the left in your pic. I'm not sure what mopar the knob on the right is for.
Of the standard dash knobs I posted above, clearly the standard knob in the rallye location has been fiddled with, but the 74 Challenger was bought new by a father and inherited by his son. The son repainted the exterior only in the original color, other than that and maintenance items, it is untouched. I couldn't say for certain though that the knob didn't break and get replaced like yours as one of the maintenance items. Do you still have a piece of your original broken standard dash knob? Which style is it?
Tav
Posted By: burdar
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/16/09 02:24 PM
It's the one on the left.
Posted By: 71 Six Pack
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/16/09 09:00 PM
I measured my '70 standard dash fader location and a '71-4 standard dash fader location and both are the same. I also have a clock hole in both a '70 and '71-4 standard bezel and both measurements are the same. The photo is kind of confusing but I put all the measurements on there.
Joe
Posted By: 71 Six Pack
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/16/09 09:06 PM
Regarding the standard dash fader knob. The standard dash bezel I bought at Carlisle this year had a single pot fader switch already on it. The knob looks to be the same as the Rallye knob. Based on the info supplied by poster Burdar on his replacement kit I purchased a Rallye fader switch and am going to try and swap over the standard dash knob and bezel. The ones I have on the bezel I bought are not in great shape so I will look into getting better ones though.
Joe
Posted By: 340SIX
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/17/09 01:15 AM
What did a car with 3 speaker dash and no rears come with?
I have one of those boxes and can find it kinda easy if need be
Posted By: BigMoneyLewis
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/17/09 03:29 AM
Quote:
What did a car with 3 speaker dash and no rears come with?
All AM FM and AM 8-track stereo E body cars used
a crossover box , and it's the same box weather you had 3 or 5 speakers ,if that's what you are asking. The big difference is the wiring harness , where a 5 speaker car will have a plug for the rear speaker harness as well as a plug for the fader . Those plugs are not found on a 3 speaker harness.
The crossover box takes the left / right stereo channels and creates the 3rd ,center channel . The crossover also sends the lower bass sound to the center dash speaker, and the higher sounds to the outboard dash speakers.
Also , 1 last tidbit , if you are looking for a 3 speaker stereo underdash harness , and all you find is a 5 speaker, You can still use it for your 3 speaker application, however, you MUST have a fader plugged in for it to work, You can even use a C body fader (and harness for that matter) Just fade it all the way to the front speakers and leave the fader out of sight behind the dash .
If you don't plug in a fader, you will get no sound at all out of your radio .
Greg
Wards Classic Car Radio Repair Specializing in restoration and sales of Mopar A B E body radios
We can restore YOUR radio usually in less than 14 days
Visit our NEW website..
http://www.wardsclassiccarradiorepair.com
gregward@mchsi.com
phone 256-852-0955
Posted By: 71 Six Pack
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/17/09 04:58 AM
Thanks for the info Greg. That confirms my car was a 5-speaker car. The radio harness has the plug for the crossover, one for the fader switch, as well as the one for that goes to the rear speakers. Once I get the fader switch in I plan on connecting it up and testing it. If it doesn't work, I'll send it your way.
Joe
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/18/09 04:19 AM
Thank you very much for the measurements!!
Here's the rallye fader measurements to complete the set.
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/18/09 04:24 AM
3 speaker vs. 5 speaker wiring diagrams
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/18/09 04:27 AM
crossover & 5 speaker harness
Not sure if this harness would be different depending on fader location.
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/18/09 04:35 AM
front speaker harness
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/18/09 04:37 AM
rear speaker harness
clips to the bracing behind the rear seat.
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/18/09 01:38 PM
passenger dash speaker wiring
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/18/09 01:40 PM
crossover wiring
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/18/09 01:52 PM
Quote:
I am redoing the dash in my '70 Challenger with AM/8-Track.
Hopefully you've already got these pieces?
all 3 unique 70 challenger dash speaker grills
the ribbed radio surround plate to match your standard cluster bezel.
the 70 challenger dash trim with 8 track notch. That will be the toughest find I think.
If you end up needing a package tray with speaker slots, Dave Walden at ECS has the most correct ones, textured with the right # of slots. The REM ones everyone else sells are smooth and use a GM slot style. (few people would ever notice the difference, so it's up to you)
Tav
Posted By: 71 Six Pack
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/18/09 02:34 PM
Quote:
Hopefully you've already got these pieces?
all 3 unique 70 challenger dash speaker grills
the ribbed radio surround plate to match your standard cluster bezel.
the 70 challenger dash trim with 8 track notch. That will be the toughest find I think.
I have almost all the pieces. I am just waiting on a rallye fader switch I purchased to come in the mail. The AM/8-Track bezel was pricey to say the least. The rear package tray in the car is original and in good shape. I am missing the correct rear defogger set up with the rear speakers though. When I bought the car the rear defogger was mounted on the support beam behind the rear seat.
The hardest thing to find is the correct labeling for the switch panel. This car has a 2-spd Wiper, and therefore a footpump washer. Finding the correct label for standard dash was difficult because I also need the rear defogger on it. I was able to use the one from my '71 Cuda for now which is also a 2spd Wiper with rear defog car. The repop labels I have seen pics of always have he Wipe/Wash when the rear defogger is there instead of just Wiper.
Joe
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/18/09 05:33 PM
Sounds like you have a really nice car with lots of options!
The housings for rear speaker with rear defog are available reproduction from Mike at BE&A restoration parts. I haven't seen the reproduction piece in person because I have an original, but usually his stuff is top notch.
The clips that hold the wiring to the bracing behind the seat can be tough to find also. If you can't find them, you might try using dome light wiring clips that clip on the sail panel behind the headliner, or trim down some cuda roadlamp wiring clips which are also available from Mike at BE&A.
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/18/09 05:37 PM
Oh, I almost forgot, you mentioned putting the optional clock in your 70 Challenger standard cluster.
This is the correct 70 Challenger standard cluster only clock. (either style would fit & function, only lettering/needles are different.)
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/18/09 05:39 PM
for comparison, here is the 71-74 Challenger & 70-74 Barracuda standard cluster clock.
I've heard the clock set knob itself and tube nut are the same as used on a rallye dash and are also available reproduction from Mike at BE&A if you need them.
Tav
Posted By: 71 Six Pack
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/20/09 01:09 AM
I'm pretty sure the clock I have is a '71 style. I don't know if the car came with one from the factory or not as there was a Rallye dash in the car when I bought it. There is no indication for tach on the fender tag so I figured the car came with a standard cluster. I never liked the blank plate on the standard dash where the clock should be so I pulled the clock from my Cuda's standard cluster as I plan on putting the Rallye cluster in the Cuda (too much Black otherwise, needs some woodgrain to dress it up).
As far as options go it is definitely an odd ball car. EB7 with the V1G top. 383 2bbl motor. Power Windows, AC, Molding Group, and AM/8-Track for the main options. I don't remember seeing the Rear Defogger on the Fender Tag, but the car had it when I bought it so I'm keeping it. The car is an LA plant car and also has California emissions.
Joe
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/20/09 03:48 AM
Sounds like my kind of car.
I agree, it probably came with a standard dash.
Rear defog didn't require any sheetmetal changes, so it probably wouldn't be coded on the fender tag. No way to know for sure without the broadcast sheet.
I'm curious about your molding group...A63 right? What other M codes appear on the fender tag?
Tav
Posted By: 71 Six Pack
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/20/09 09:36 AM
There is no A63, only the M21 Drip Rail Moldings code on the tag. The car has the stainless trim around the grill opening on the front valence, as well as the back of the hood and fenders, and top of the doors (belt molding).
Joe
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/20/09 01:22 PM
That's interesting. Since those molding require alterations to the sheetmetal of the car (holes in doors & quarters), they should be on the fender tag. An SE car would have M31 on the tag, and a non-SE with that trim would have both A63 & M31 I think. I'd have to suspect they're not factory on your car, but since you've got them, might as well enjoy them. I know I would.
Does your car have the astrotone tailpanel molding (like the SE's) that also came with the A63 molding package? Does your car have rear seat ash trays?
Tav
Posted By: 71 Six Pack
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/20/09 08:42 PM
Car was repainted so I don't know about the astrotone. No rear seat ashtrays.
Joe
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 08/20/09 09:14 PM
The astrotone tail panel molding is a very large aluminum trim piece that covers all of the tail panel above the tail lights and both ends of the tail panel trim on the quarters are grafted into it. It requires extra holes all along the top edge of the tail lights for clips to hold it in place. Doesn't sound like you have it on your car. If your car ever had it, and doesn't now, then the sheetmetal holes for the trim clips would have had to be filled to keep the trunk from leaking.
Tav
Posted By: Mopar_Mudder
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 09/07/12 07:12 PM
I know it is an old thread but very informative and worth bringing back.
Does anyone know what the difference it between the fader that has the 6 prong plug on the back, vrs the fade that has wires attached to it?
Posted By: BigMoneyLewis
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 09/07/12 07:23 PM
Quote:
I know it is an old thread but very informative and worth bringing back.
Does anyone know what the difference it between the fader that has the 6 prong plug on the back, vrs the fade that has wires attached to it?
The fader with dual pots , 6 wires ,is for stereo radios.
Fader with 3 wires, single pot, is for a mono radio.
Greg
Posted By: Mopar_Mudder
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 09/07/12 07:32 PM
So any chance you can tell me which one this is?
Posted By: BigMoneyLewis
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 09/07/12 09:55 PM
That's a mono fader .Notice It only has 3 wires going into it. It is used on AM cars with a single front and single rear speaker.
On the 1970 E body ,a stereo fader would be used with a 5 speaker system , 3 in the dash and 2 in the rear. It would require a diffrent harness as well which would include a crossover box.
Greg
Posted By: Mopar_Mudder
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 09/07/12 10:41 PM
Quote:
That's a mono fader .Notice It only has 3 wires going into it. It is used on AM cars with a single front and single rear speaker.
On the 1970 E body ,a stereo fader would be used with a 5 speaker system , 3 in the dash and 2 in the rear. It would require a diffrent harness as well which would include a crossover box.
Greg
Thanks for the help, won't be buying that one then
Posted By: 340challconvert
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 05/30/14 07:06 PM
Great old post on the wiring of challenger cuda stereos including the use of the crossover box.
thank you
340challconvert
Posted By: 6PakBee
Re: Challenger Stereo Crossover Question - 05/10/20 01:04 PM
I know this is an old, old post but does anyone have a wiring schematic of the crossover box internals? I haven't been able to find a complete box and am probably going to try to make one. Thanks.
Edit: Just bought one off Ebay, I'll find out what's in it!