Will an alterktion kit make a muscle car handle???
#432429
08/09/09 01:19 PM
08/09/09 01:19 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670 Lima, Peru
domingo
OP
EL Master
|
OP
EL Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670
Lima, Peru
|
Hi!
I have been looking and the Alterktion front end kit and also they new rear suspension kit with triangulated 4 bars and coil overs.
I want o build a modern day musclecar with a viper drivetrain.
I was wondering if the front and rear Alterktion suspension and steering will make an old musclecar like an an E body or 68-69 Charger handle real good like a newer car.
Or will handling be just marginally improved over stock?
I would plan on doing some majour unibody stffening, maybe even a full cage, and the front and rear alterktion kit plus some real good brakes and 17" o 18" wheels with some serious tires.
I dont want to spend a ton on suspoension mods, a 500 hp modern drivertain, a 6 speed....and end up having thrown a lot of money on a car that looks cool but handles like a bulldozer.
If that will be the case, Id rather just keep it old school, which is cool as well.....and just get a newer car like a 2010 Camaro, Newer Challenger, or a vette.
I wonder how an old E body with all the tricks would stand against a 2009 Challenger.
Opinions????
Last edited by domingo; 08/09/09 01:22 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Will an alterktion kit make a muscle car handle???
[Re: OzHemi]
#432431
08/09/09 01:30 PM
08/09/09 01:30 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670 Lima, Peru
domingo
OP
EL Master
|
OP
EL Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670
Lima, Peru
|
Oh yes, you showed me that b4-
Well, first of all, wrecked newer vehicles dont grow on trees down here, and when they get wrecked they usually get built back up. It'd actually be more expensive for me that getting an alterk and a viper drivetrian.
Also, I want to have the viper drivetrian. I dont want to use a new hemi or any of that. And also, I want a manual transmission.
Also having to deal with different wheelbases, track width, etc. I think its a lot more complicated to drop an e bopdy onto a newer frame.
|
|
|
Re: Will an alterktion kit make a muscle car handle???
[Re: domingo]
#432432
08/09/09 01:35 PM
08/09/09 01:35 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346 Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi
Penguin-hating Ginger
|
Penguin-hating Ginger
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
|
I hear you...was just a thought. Sometimes you get lucky on stuff at least (in my case, the width between the sills is the same between the late and early.) the wheelbase is easy to match by just adding some material in. At least with a factory setup you know everything will be matched to each other component and tested,etc. Just make up new mounts for the V-10 to the subframe.
|
|
|
Re: Will an alterktion kit make a muscle car handle???
[Re: domingo]
#432433
08/09/09 01:41 PM
08/09/09 01:41 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468 So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
|
Quote:
Hi!
I have been looking and the Alterktion front end kit and also they new rear suspension kit with triangulated 4 bars and coil overs.
I want o build a modern day musclecar with a viper drivetrain.
I was wondering if the front and rear Alterktion suspension and steering will make an old musclecar like an an E body or 68-69 Charger handle real good like a newer car.
Or will handling be just marginally improved over stock?
I would plan on doing some majour unibody stffening, maybe even a full cage, and the front and rear alterktion kit plus some real good brakes and 17" o 18" wheels with some serious tires.
I dont want to spend a ton on suspoension mods, a 500 hp modern drivertain, a 6 speed....and end up having thrown a lot of money on a car that looks cool but handles like a bulldozer.
If that will be the case, Id rather just keep it old school, which is cool as well.....and just get a newer car like a 2010 Camaro, Newer Challenger, or a vette.
I wonder how an old E body with all the tricks would stand against a 2009 Challenger.
Opinions????
Quote:
I want o build a modern day musclecar with a viper drivetrain.
For chassis fitment for a Viper V10 motor with headers, exhausts, oil pan... Something like an alterkion is really the way to go. Probably the only way to go really, beyond the handling aspect of it.
But sure it will handle great with choosing the good shocks, 6 piston caliper option, and some stiff springs.
I don't think the rear link is as big a benefit for your particular situation as the front. But finding the right leaf springs can be expensive. A link rear can be adjusted easier, if you know what you what and why you are adjusting it. Also springs can be swapped easier and cheaper, same for front too. The link rear probably fits your "build" and "theme" also.
Will it handles as good as a stock SRT-8 Challenger? If you can get it to weigh 500 lbs less and get as wide or wider rubber on it, it may be able to generate as good skid pad numbers. It most likey will not be as "refined".
It will not ride as quiet or smooth as the SRT-8. The Challenger as an independent rear that help ride a lot. And it does'nt have a B piller to support the window, nor as tight of body structure, nor an interior made of trash can material .
If you really want to most modern best of all worlds deal IHMO you need to look into a XV level 2 full bore deal.
|
|
|
Re: Will an alterktion kit make a muscle car handle???
[Re: autoxcuda]
#432435
08/09/09 01:46 PM
08/09/09 01:46 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670 Lima, Peru
domingo
OP
EL Master
|
OP
EL Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670
Lima, Peru
|
Quote:
Quote:
Hi!
I have been looking and the Alterktion front end kit and also they new rear suspension kit with triangulated 4 bars and coil overs.
I want o build a modern day musclecar with a viper drivetrain.
I was wondering if the front and rear Alterktion suspension and steering will make an old musclecar like an an E body or 68-69 Charger handle real good like a newer car.
Or will handling be just marginally improved over stock?
I would plan on doing some majour unibody stffening, maybe even a full cage, and the front and rear alterktion kit plus some real good brakes and 17" o 18" wheels with some serious tires.
I dont want to spend a ton on suspoension mods, a 500 hp modern drivertain, a 6 speed....and end up having thrown a lot of money on a car that looks cool but handles like a bulldozer.
If that will be the case, Id rather just keep it old school, which is cool as well.....and just get a newer car like a 2010 Camaro, Newer Challenger, or a vette.
I wonder how an old E body with all the tricks would stand against a 2009 Challenger.
Opinions????
Quote:
I want o build a modern day musclecar with a viper drivetrain.
For chassis fitment for a Viper V10 motor with headers, exhausts, oil pan... Something like an alterkion is really the way to go. Probably the only way to go really, beyond the handling aspect of it.
But sure it will handle great with choosing the good shocks, 6 piston caliper option, and some stiff springs.
I don't think the rear link is as big a benefit for your particular situation as the front. But finding the right leaf springs can be expensive. A link rear can be adjusted easier, if you know what you what and why you are adjusting it. Also springs can be swapped easier and cheaper, same for front too. The link rear probably fits your "build" and "theme" also.
Will it handles as good as a stock SRT-8 Challenger? If you can get it to weigh 500 lbs less and get as wide or wider rubber on it, it may be able to generate as good skid pad numbers. It most likey will not be as "refined".
It will not ride as quiet or smooth as the SRT-8. The Challenger as an independent rear that help ride a lot. And it does'nt have a B piller to support the window, nor as tight of body structure, nor an interior made of trash can material .
If you really want to most modern best of all worlds deal IHMO you need to look into a XV level 2 full bore deal.
Im pretty sure I could make it a lot ligter than a new Challenger. Also, fitting big wheels and tires would not be a problem. I am not afraid to fab and modify at all.
I woudl most certainly get rid of the body flex via mist probably a full cage.
Why XV over Alterk? I know this has been beat to death, but really, I have never heard any solid facts.
|
|
|
Re: Will an alterktion kit make a muscle car handle???
[Re: OzHemi]
#432437
08/09/09 02:18 PM
08/09/09 02:18 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759 So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
|
Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
|
XV uses more modern suspension components as well as copying more modern chassis geometry, i.e. corvette. In this case you are paying for a lot of research and development, not that the others are not, just with the XV it is a step beyond and you are paying for it. Alterktion was never initially made to make a car handle better, it was to made for more room for drag racing setups, XV was made to handle from the beginning.
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
|
|
|
Re: Will an alterktion kit make a muscle car handle???
[Re: domingo]
#432438
08/09/09 02:34 PM
08/09/09 02:34 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468 So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
|
Quote:
Im pretty sure I could make it a lot ligter than a new Challenger. Also, fitting big wheels and tires would not be a problem. I am not afraid to fab and modify at all.
I woudl most certainly get rid of the body flex via mist probably a full cage.
Why XV over Alterk? I know this has been beat to death, but really, I have never heard any solid facts.
Well, you said,
Quote:
I wonder how an old E body with all the tricks would stand against a 2009 Challenger.
If you are trying to get that last little bit of refinement, ride, and performance to match or exceed a new Challenger SRT-8... the XV stuff has the all the trick goods. Stuff like aluminum spindles, aluminum upper control arms, aluminum engine cradle, alumiunum lower control arms...
That's going to lower your unsprung weight and total weight.
It's not like the Alterkion stuff is bad for handling. It's really quite good for what it is and costs. But if you want the triple throw down, super trick, exotic stuff I think that's XV. It's a little bit of an apples to oranges comparison.
Even with a cage the XV radiator support, strut/cowl brace, and inner fender support are going to help. The inner fender support deal should be tied into your cage and the other end of that plate.
Regardless of the suspension, I thought getting the V10 to fit between the E-body firewall and radiator support is a task in itself.
|
|
|
Re: Will an alterktion kit make a muscle car handle???
[Re: Jim_Lusk]
#432440
08/09/09 02:58 PM
08/09/09 02:58 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,712 Sacramento, Ca
Darius
master
|
master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,712
Sacramento, Ca
|
I don't know about the handling......yet! I have installed an AlterKtion and the 4 link from Bill at RMS. I have also installes the entire body stiffening kit from XV, all in a 70 GTX. I have also installed the 5.7 and the w5a580 transmission from a wrecked o7 Charger in this car. I still have some bodywork, paint,interior stuff to do . By my calculations I think this car will weigh somewhere around 3800 lbs when it is all done. You can see progress pics on Moparts member project and Survivors forum "70GTX-5.7 Hemi Build" thread or even better pics at www.forbbodiesonly.com 1966-1970 Mopars forum "b body stiffening" thread. This does not answer your question about handling but it may give you something to think about as far as effort is concerned. Good luck on the project whichever way you decide to go!
Driving modern convenience in classic beauty
|
|
|
Re: Will an alterktion kit make a muscle car handle???
[Re: Jim_Lusk]
#432441
08/09/09 03:18 PM
08/09/09 03:18 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759 So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
|
Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
|
I not too thrilled about the use of pinto/mustang 2 spindles on the alterktion kit as those cars never were designed to handle.
On the plus side just about everything in the aftermarket in the past was design to fit them as well as use the rack and pinion off of one.
Just about anything is an improvement over what was done back then though, as our cars were designed with bias ply tires in mind.
Last edited by HealthServices; 08/09/09 03:40 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Will an alterktion kit make a muscle car handle???
[Re: HealthServices]
#432442
08/09/09 03:42 PM
08/09/09 03:42 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468 So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
|
Quote:
I not too thrilled about the use of pinto/mustang 2 spindles on the alterktion kit as those cars never were designed to handle.
On the plus side just about everything in the aftermarket in the past was design to fit them as well as use the rack and pinion off of one.
It's just the spindle not the whole car. You just design around it.
They raced Pintos in like IMSA in the 70's againg Datsun 510's, Gremlins, Alfa's?.
|
|
|
Re: Will an alterktion kit make a muscle car handle???
[Re: autoxcuda]
#432443
08/09/09 04:18 PM
08/09/09 04:18 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,072 Niles , Ohio
therocks
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
|
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,072
Niles , Ohio
|
Instead of asking people that might know.Call Bill at RMS and ask him.He is a great guy and will tell you what it will and wont do.He designed and built it so I guess he knows better than anyone.Rockyf
Chrysler Firepower
|
|
|
Re: Will an alterktion kit make a muscle car handle???
[Re: abodyjoe]
#432446
08/09/09 05:04 PM
08/09/09 05:04 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,037 Texas, Dallas
G_T
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,037
Texas, Dallas
|
Call Bill and talk to him. I'm using his Alterkation, Street Lynx, a Viper engine with 6 spd, 14" Wilwoods with 6/4 piston calipers. etc. etc. Visit v10mopar.com and my thread at charger.com: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=30342.220
1970 Charger - V10, 6spd, Alterkation, Street Lynx 4 Link, Moser Dana 60, Wilwood 14" disks, Forgeline 18" Wheels (Rear:335's), ISIS Multiplexing Wiring http://www.v10mopar.com
2012 Charger SRT8
|
|
|
Re: Will an alterktion kit make a muscle car handle???
[Re: Jim_Lusk]
#432447
08/09/09 05:16 PM
08/09/09 05:16 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,337 the house on the left.
cogen80
master
|
master
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,337
the house on the left.
|
Quote:
Actually the Alterktion was made to improve handling AND header clearance.
where did you get that from? it was built to handle and with the weight savings and header clearance along with how well it works, its found its way to the drag strip.
Quote:
I not too thrilled about the use of pinto/mustang 2 spindles on the alterktion kit as those cars never were designed to handle.
whats so bad about the spindles? they aren't actually off a ford product. plus they are modified. bill thought about using mopar spindles but there were no real brake options out there at the time for a mopar spindle. and if there was it was very expensive. with the stang spindles it opens the doors to a ton of aftermarket brake options and the front end geometry is correct.
|
|
|
|
|