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QUEST FOR TENS #427342
08/03/09 01:49 PM
08/03/09 01:49 PM
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Scamp408 Offline OP
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I made a post on sunday and I guess I should have been more clear my bad.
my junk right now is running in the low 11s and I think Iam at the max et with my eddie heads.I have a set of Indy cnc 230 heads and the matching hardware to go with it at my disposal.Should I put the heads on and run it,they should get me into the 10s or should I just save them for a new short block.The motor in the car now is a good motor with about 50 runs and internal balance.It has probe pistons a mopar cast crank and eagle I beam rods.Do you guys think the rods and the crank will hold or am I playing with fire?No power adders put on later just all motor.I am only looking for 3-5 tenths or am I dreaming that with just a head swap.
Thanks in advance and pinch me If I am dreaming.

Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: Scamp408] #427343
08/03/09 01:57 PM
08/03/09 01:57 PM
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junction city oregon
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I think your engine should handle 11.0's no problem. I think with the other heads, your cast crank, may or may not handle it too well. If it were me, I would save those heads for another build, or put them on. I just wouldn't run it that way for too long.

Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: viperblue72] #427344
08/03/09 02:07 PM
08/03/09 02:07 PM
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Mansfield, Tx
Jacob Pitt Offline
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What cam are you running?


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Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: Scamp408] #427345
08/03/09 02:11 PM
08/03/09 02:11 PM
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To keep us from searching through your posts, can you give
us a run-down on engine, converter, gear and vehicle?

10s are pretty easy with 4"+ crank SB.

Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: S/ST 3040] #427346
08/03/09 02:57 PM
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eddie heads victor340 intake,557lift solid cam,410 gears lupo trans and convert,825carb,tti headers,28in tire,car weight 3150 with me.best 1.51 60ft 7.026 1/8 9.25 1000ft 11.17 1/4 117.55mph.

Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: Scamp408] #427347
08/03/09 03:05 PM
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Without know any more specs for the cam and converter, it's a
little on the weak side for a 408. (about 395 HP)

It might be in there already with some sharp tuning but, the
heads, more than likely, have the HP corked up.

Good tire/gear selection.

What are the rest of your cam specs and CR?

Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: S/ST 3040] #427348
08/03/09 05:50 PM
08/03/09 05:50 PM
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INTAKE: Duration: 304º Lift: .545
EXHAUST: Duration: 310º Lift: .558
lupo 9.5 4200 stall convert
The motor was orig built for the 12s so I know the cam is weak.I talked to lupo about going to an 8in he said I may p/u a 10th but he thought is wasnt worth it.

Last edited by scamp408; 08/03/09 05:52 PM.
Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: Scamp408] #427349
08/03/09 06:03 PM
08/03/09 06:03 PM
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El Dorado Ca
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Better cam will get you there


1965 Plymouth Barracuda 273 M/SA
1970 Plymouth Duster 360/904 10.60s with J heads
Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: Scamp408] #427350
08/03/09 08:21 PM
08/03/09 08:21 PM
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oklahoma
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I have heard the Eagle i beam rods have a bad reputation. I think i would save those heads for another motor.

Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: forphorty] #427351
08/03/09 10:43 PM
08/03/09 10:43 PM
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Victoria, Australia
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is that a 825 demon or holly take 2 jet sizes out and see if mph picks up and if it does you are tad rich and if it slows try 2 other way , when that is sorted try increaseing timmimg by 2 degrees


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Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: Ian] #427352
08/03/09 10:55 PM
08/03/09 10:55 PM
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south central pa
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I would change the cam loosen the conv. to 5,400 and put 4.30 or 4.56 in it.


3120lb, small block, 10.5" tire, NA, through exhaust, full int, WITH 83/4 REAR, 9.0 at 150mph
Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: bdaz smblk] #427353
08/03/09 11:33 PM
08/03/09 11:33 PM
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Since it's 11.4:1 CR. I'd use a cam like 262º/266º @ .050,
108º LSA, installed +4º .590"+ lift.

Open up the heads/valve job

A little more stall wouldn't hurt but, not necessary.

I'd keep the 28"tire/4.10 gear......especially w/TTI (1 5/8"?)

With bigger headers, open exhaust probably 10.70-10.80


Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: S/ST 3040] #427354
08/04/09 05:19 AM
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Its a 11.4 motor.The carb is already jetted up 2 steps.With a lm o2 a/f in the 12 range could be a little rich.I tried the timing all over and likes it around 32 total.I realy dont want to put money in the eddie heads thats why I have the Indy ones.
I was going to just put the head on but I have been reading all the stories about eagle rods snapping.

Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: Scamp408] #427355
08/04/09 06:03 AM
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the indy heads will make way more power than the cast crank and eagle I beams can handle.

Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: Quicktree] #427356
08/04/09 06:52 AM
08/04/09 06:52 AM
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Mansfield, Tx
Jacob Pitt Offline
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I also don't think putting the Indy heads on with that cam, headers, carb, stall and compression would do just a whole lot for you in terms of e.t.


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Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: Jacob Pitt] #427357
08/04/09 08:23 AM
08/04/09 08:23 AM
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I have the tti 1-7/8 headers for the Indys and a bigger carb that need to be redone.At that lift the Indy heads flow alot more than the eddies thats why I thought I would make more power with just a head swap.I may be at the limits of the cast crank and rods.

Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: Scamp408] #427358
08/04/09 08:38 AM
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Jacob might be messing with you, since he runs the 360-2 heads.

Make no mistake, the INDYs are a HUGE improvement over Edelbrocks.

I'll edit my cam specs for 11.4:1

Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: Scamp408] #427359
08/04/09 08:49 AM
08/04/09 08:49 AM
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IMHO you have a couple issues, smallish carb and small headers and the 60' seems a little slow. At you're weight it should be in the 6s in the 1/8 now. My old hydraulic cammed, pump gas 340 went mid 7.20s with a best 1.533 60', it normally went 1.55-1.57. 69 Dart, 3300#, 9.5" 4400 converter with 4.30 gears. If you're chassis was sorted out you'd be there now .

Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: justinp61] #427360
08/04/09 08:55 AM
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Quote:

IMHO you have a couple issues, smallish carb and small headers and the 60' seems a little slow. At you're weight it should be in the 6s in the 1/8 now. My old hydraulic cammed, pump gas 340 went mid 7.20s with a best 1.533 60', it normally went 1.55-1.57. 69 Dart, 3300#, 9.5" 4400 converter with 4.30 gears. If you're chassis was sorted out you'd be there now .




He'd have to be a real chassis whiz to hit 10s @ 117.

Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: S/ST 3040] #427361
08/04/09 10:23 AM
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The cam was picked for a 12 sec ride but I have been tweeking this and now its in the low 11s.
I have the 002/003 springs with comp 3 ways and the .810 torsion bars with Qa1 drag shocks.I can get a bigger carb if needed.

Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: S/ST 3040] #427362
08/04/09 10:29 AM
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Quote:

Jacob might be messing with you, since he runs the 360-2 heads.

Make no mistake, the INDYs are a HUGE improvement over Edelbrocks.

I'll edit my cam specs for 11.4:1




Oh I agree they are far above what the Eddie heads are, and now knowing you have more carb and bigger headers than I thought I do think it would make 10's. But it would just be high tens and on those rods.


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Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: Scamp408] #427363
08/04/09 10:34 AM
08/04/09 10:34 AM
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You didn't give all your cam specs. What's the duration @ .050",
Lobe separation and where is it installed?

Unless you have fuel delivery problems or really low float settings,
my guess is, a combination of cylinder head and small exhaust
is currently keeping you from running 10s.

11.17 is pretty quick for 117.55 MPH especially, since you have
mediocre 60 fts.

There is something definitely choking off the power on the top.

Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: S/ST 3040] #427364
08/04/09 11:06 AM
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Sorry
I have the reg tti for the eddies and the 1-7/8 for indys
INTAKE

Opens: 21.0 BTDC
Closes: 49.0 ABDC


EXHAUST

Opens: 59.0 BBDC
Closes: 15.0 ATDC


LOBE SEPERATION

108º


Duration at .050"

Intake: 250
Exhaust: 254


LOBE LIFT

Intake: .363
Exhaust: .372

Last edited by scamp408; 08/04/09 11:07 AM.
Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: S/ST 3040] #427365
08/04/09 11:13 AM
08/04/09 11:13 AM
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I think, as others have mentioned, a cam swap might be in order, among other things. Everything has to be right and matched to get them to run how they are capable of.

My old 416 combo was a 260/266 flat tappet, 560/580 lift that i ran 1.6 rockers on(made it 598/623)it was on a 108, in at 104. Weiand excellerator, mildly ported eddies(maxed at 274 at 600 lift) TTI 1 5/8 step to 1 3/4 headers

8 inch convertor that flashed about 4900-5000, 28 inch tire with 4.30 gears(they were too steep, would have liked 4.10 like you have better)had a 1025 race demon, that was a great carb for that combo, this all was in a 3400+ pound car with full interor and bench seat, column shift at 11.8 compression.

car went 10.74 at 123.70, through the mufflers so at 3150 pounds, it should be extremely easy to get in the 10's with a combo similar to the above, even if the heads are just mildly cleaned up.


The above all said, there is no way i would lean on the combo you have with those eagle I beam rods amd that cast crank for any extended period of time and not expect you arent going to drive over the bottom end at some point in the very near future.


So, i would step up the cam to something with 600 corrected lift and 260 ish on the intake, consider going to a 950 ish carb and perhaps more convertor, after you fortify the bottom end to handle the expected power you are going to have on tap.....

I took that bottom end on my 416 above( h beams and cast crank and threw w5's on it) and changed nothing except headers and intake and went 10.30's with that swap,and proceeded to drive over the crank and ruin the shortblock, so your indy's should net you a similar gain if you have everything corect with the eddies you are currenty using and make that swap.

Strokers like cam and carb, you are lacking on both currently, as well as having a solid shortblock foundation to build from.I might leave it as is until you get a good shortblock under it.

Good luck


69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8

Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: B3422W5] #427366
08/04/09 11:59 AM
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I was afraid I was going to hear that about the rods/crank.I guess I will leave the Indy heads for a diff motor and leave this motor alone.I could try the bigger carb and see if I pick up on top.I dont want to scatter this thing on the track.

Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: Scamp408] #427367
08/04/09 01:04 PM
08/04/09 01:04 PM
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First off your mph seems a bit low for 11-teens secondly, I know a gentleman running low 9`s w/a cast cank and I`m sure he`s not the only one. Why not do the heads AND cam at the same time then you are there for sure.....I picked up 5/tenths by going to a roller and e-heads.


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: Thumperdart] #427368
08/04/09 01:12 PM
08/04/09 01:12 PM
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The eddie heads ar stock ootb just a mild clean up on the ports by me.I think crank should be good but the rods I am afraid of.

Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: Thumperdart] #427369
08/04/09 01:15 PM
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Quote:

First off your mph seems a bit low for 11-teens secondly, I know a gentleman running low 9`s w/a cast cank and I`m sure he`s not the only one. Why not do the heads AND cam at the same time then you are there for sure.....I picked up 5/tenths by going to a roller and e-heads.






I know several guys running mopar cast cranks going 10's who have broke them, I had it happen to me personally, and know several guys i have raced with that had the same thing happen. And in all cases it was with better rods than the original poster has(which may well be an even weaker link than the crank is.

Yes, MAYBE somebody somewhere has gotten by like that, but my personal experience and that of others i personally know is that the advice i gave him is very sound.

And putting INDY heads on that shortblock would be an out and out no-no.

Last edited by B3422W5; 08/04/09 01:17 PM.
Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: B3422W5] #427370
08/04/09 01:23 PM
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I hear ya but it`s kinda like the old saying "your 8 3/4 will never live at your power level"....guess I like livin on the edge; and so does my 8 3/4.


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: B3422W5] #427371
08/04/09 01:25 PM
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So I gues what you guys are saying is that the motor could make more power but I should keep it where it is now so it can live.Knowing my luck the first pass with the new heads would not be good.I might try the bigger carb just for giggles.
I have a new X block any ideas for a new motor?

Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: Scamp408] #427372
08/04/09 01:27 PM
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Do you have any plans to do anything with your current engine?

Eagle SIR

5396869-DSCN2094.JPG (58 downloads)
Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: Scamp408] #427373
08/04/09 01:28 PM
08/04/09 01:28 PM
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Quote:

So I gues what you guys are saying is that the motor could make more power but I should keep it where it is now so it can live.Knowing my luck the first pass with the new heads would not be good.I might try the bigger carb just for giggles.
I have a new X block any ideas for a new motor?




that X block and those indy's could support a lot of power


69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8

Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: B3422W5] #427374
08/04/09 01:30 PM
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I might change the carb for fun but then just run it while I come up with the $$$$ for a new short block.I do drive this sucker on the street.
Whats with the pic?

Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: S/ST 3040] #427375
08/04/09 01:32 PM
08/04/09 01:32 PM
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Scat Pro I-beams

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Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: Scamp408] #427376
08/04/09 01:38 PM
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Quote:

Whats with the pic?




You guys are a little antsy.........Pictures were supposed to be
consecutive to show how close the weights are to the much
better 4340 Scat 7/16" bolts.

Dial-up.

Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: S/ST 3040] #427377
08/04/09 01:40 PM
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SIR” I-Beam Connecting Rods

Eagle “SIR” connecting rods are forged from 5140 steel and utilize ARP 3/8” capscrew-style bolts with alignment sleeves for easier assembly. Packaged in weight-matched sets (+/- 2g). Sizing is performed by in-house CNC equipment. “SIR” rods are the perfect choice for engines UP TO 500 HP.


69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8

Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: B3422W5] #427378
08/04/09 01:57 PM
08/04/09 01:57 PM
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Quote:



SIR” I-Beam Connecting Rods

Eagle “SIR” connecting rods are forged from 5140 steel and utilize ARP 3/8” capscrew-style bolts with alignment sleeves for easier assembly. Packaged in weight-matched sets (+/- 2g). Sizing is performed by in-house CNC equipment. “SIR” rods are the perfect choice for engines UP TO 500 HP.






I ran a set for 125 passes and was glad they made it through the season.
It's not worth the risk for me to test their longevity.

I was glad to sell them for $50

5396920-DSCN1708.JPG (15 downloads)
Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: S/ST 3040] #427379
08/04/09 02:06 PM
08/04/09 02:06 PM
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Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
justinp61 Offline
I Live Here
justinp61  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
Mine made fine for five years with no issues, they're still in the 340. Ross flat tops, turned it 6200-6500 over 300 passes. I'm just lucky I guess . The new 408 has Comp Star H-beams in it though.

Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: justinp61] #427380
08/04/09 02:18 PM
08/04/09 02:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,528
Mansfield, Tx
Jacob Pitt Offline
master
Jacob Pitt  Offline
master

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,528
Mansfield, Tx
I have some SIR rods in the motor I built for my Mom's Duster. This was before I heard all the horror stories. That motor doesn't make all that much power since I was told by her that she didn't want it to be to fast that she had to wear a fire jacket or put a roll bar in the car. Was shooting for 7.70's in the 1/8th and wound up with a [Email]7.39@91[/Email] so far in great air. She only turns it to 5500rpm and motor has been together for two seasons now. I wish I had put the Scat's in it, shoot I wish I had known about the Scat's beforehand.

Last edited by ChallyL427; 08/04/09 06:42 PM.

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Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: justinp61] #427381
08/04/09 02:20 PM
08/04/09 02:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
S
S/ST 3040 Offline
master
S/ST 3040  Offline
master
S

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
Mine obviously lived for the time I used them. I guess it's possible the broken
SIRs I've seen were just bad heat lot flukes but, I took them out at the end of
the year.........after seeing several posts on the subject.

I ran Ross 99626 domes (567 grams) 7400 RPM every shift and the occasional
8000 limiter burnout.........so they can't be complete junk. Just didn't care to
test what others had already found out.

Personally, I'd never use them again.......even in somebody else's engine.

5396966-DSCN1590.JPG (15 downloads)
Re: QUEST FOR TENS [Re: S/ST 3040] #427382
08/04/09 07:47 PM
08/04/09 07:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,709
NJ central
S
Scamp408 Offline OP
master
Scamp408  Offline OP
master
S

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,709
NJ central
I rather not chance it .If the motor is still running I can get some $$ for parts .This is the new block.

5397555-xmotor006.jpg (64 downloads)
Last edited by scamp408; 08/04/09 07:51 PM.
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