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fresh engine started! some questions now #423297
07/29/09 08:34 PM
07/29/09 08:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 372
Ohio
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jensenguy Offline OP
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jensenguy  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 372
Ohio
Just a little while ago I finally got my 440 running. It took me quite a few tries to get it to fire and stay running. Yesterday I tried it but ended up having some ignition issues. Got that fixed and today i had to turn the distributor a couple degrees to get it to go.

But once I got it I brought it up to 2 grand and kept it around there for a while. It really did sound great! But, unfortunately I ended up boiling over the cooling system (just water) to the point that i had to shut down. The engine didnt overheat, but I must of have had a lot of air trapped in the engine. That was after between 5 and 10 minutes of running.

The main thing Im worried about is the cam, I hear about so many problems people have with not breaking them in correctly. One, did all of my excess cranking hurt anything? And two, I know you are supposed to hold a 2000 rpm for 20 minutes, is what i did good enough, or can I just continue that when I next start it? Also when you wipe a lobe, does that usually occur shortly after startup if its going to happen or is it a down the road kind of thing?

thanks for reading and for any help!

Re: fresh engine started! some questions now [Re: jensenguy] #423298
07/29/09 08:42 PM
07/29/09 08:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,831
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Online boogie
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Kirkland, Washington
Wiping a lobe can happen anytime but first fire is more common due to the foot of the lifter not yet developing just a SLIGHT ammout of wear that effectively increases its contact patch (and therefore reducing its pressure per small fraction of inch) with the lobe.

You had assembly lube on the lobes right? That should protect them during the initial cranking.
You are using a camshaft breakin additive of some sort? You have a plan to ensure adequate zinc/phosphorous in the oil right?

Next time you fire, again bring it up to 2000 (vary the RPM some) for a while longer.

Fan on radiator is always smart during this procedure--overheating is not uncommon.

Re: fresh engine started! some questions now [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #423299
07/29/09 08:54 PM
07/29/09 08:54 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 679
N.E Indiana
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repad Offline
super street
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N.E Indiana
What i like to do, is place a tub/bucket under the radiator patcock, place a waterhose in the top of the radiator, fill the radiator with water and open the petcock so the water drains into the bucket at a slow pace. Then, adjust the water going in to equal the amount coming out. Start youre engine and run until breakin. I've done this many times, works great.

Re: fresh engine started! some questions now [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #423300
07/29/09 08:54 PM
07/29/09 08:54 PM

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I don't believe in putting a new cam in a new street engine. Usually you've got a perfectly good "stocker" or alternative grind of some sort, so build the new engine with THAT cam. Get the engine together, sort out all the leaks, junk, stuff that "doesn't" the ignition, and get the rings broken in and running good.

THEN tear 'er down and slip the new wobble stick in there, and now you've got confindence in everything else, you can just fire' er up, quickly set the timing and let er run

Re: fresh engine started! some questions now [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #423301
07/29/09 08:55 PM
07/29/09 08:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 372
Ohio
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jensenguy Offline OP
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Posts: 372
Ohio
Quote:

Wiping a lobe can happen anytime but first fire is more common due to the foot of the lifter not yet developing just a SLIGHT ammout of wear that effectively increases its contact patch (and therefore reducing its pressure per small fraction of inch) with the lobe.

You had assembly lube on the lobes right? That should protect them during the initial cranking.
You are using a camshaft breakin additive of some sort? You have a plan to ensure adequate zinc/phosphorous in the oil right?

Next time you fire, again bring it up to 2000 (vary the RPM some) for a while longer.

Fan on radiator is always smart during this procedure--overheating is not uncommon.




OK That makes sense about the lobes. I did have assembly lube on the cam, and Im using EOS along with the oil. Plus I primed the engine before attempting to start it the first time.

I do have electric cooling fans wired to a toggle switch, but I didnt have them on until close to the end of the run. I am going to pressure check my rad. cap too, its pretty ancient looking.

thanks!

Re: fresh engine started! some questions now [Re: jensenguy] #423302
07/29/09 09:00 PM
07/29/09 09:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 85
Iowa
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Rodder Offline
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Iowa
Hi, For a better answer can you give us some more detail. Getting it warm probably didn't do any thing to the cam. The next start up like that try putting a box fan on a stool in front of your car to blow air across the radiator. It will sure help. I have had many engines that did not just snap running and that did not affect the cam. What will is what we need info on, like what oil are you using. What cam lube did you use, and how long did the new engine set before starting. Did you use any additive? One thing to check is take the valve covers off and crank it and watch to see if each lifter is turning in its bore. That takes more cams out than non additive oil. Also how high the lift is and spring pressure have a lot to do with it. My experience loosing one cam lobe was it took about a month of drag racing to clean it off. I never did find the reason. I think it was a non turning lifter actually, as the bottom of the lifter was cupped out. Another good practice is to fill the filter clear full of oil and screw it on. Then put a oil gauge in the rear cam port and turn the oil pump with a drill or ratchet wrench until you have oil pressure before starting it. You can make a driver out of an allen wrench and a rod. If you are really anal then turn the motor a quarter of a revolution and pump more oil until you get clear around. That way you know that all oil galleys got filled with oil. Then you know you have oil to every thing before starting. Good luck, I'll bet you are ok.

Re: fresh engine started! some questions now #423303
07/29/09 09:05 PM
07/29/09 09:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,831
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Online boogie
Too Many Posts
Pacnorthcuda  Online Boogie
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,831
Kirkland, Washington
Quote:

I don't believe in putting a new cam in a new street engine. Usually you've got a perfectly good "stocker" or alternative grind of some sort, so build the new engine with THAT cam. Get the engine together, sort out all the leaks, junk, stuff that "doesn't" the ignition, and get the rings broken in and running good.

THEN tear 'er down and slip the new wobble stick in there, and now you've got confindence in everything else, you can just fire' er up, quickly set the timing and let er run




Lot of Work! I agree that 'knowing' an engine will fire and not have major issues is a big benifit while attempting to break in a new cam, but as a compromise to that method, why not just install weak (stock) valve springs for the first few starts? Much gentler on the cam and if there are other issues the cam should be fine. Then simply install the performance springs when ready.

Re: fresh engine started! some questions now [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #423304
07/29/09 09:53 PM
07/29/09 09:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,446
It's a dry heat
gtx6970 Offline
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It's a dry heat
I just did this exact same thing with a 340

New engle cam and lifters.lubed up with the red lube - heads at 130 lbs closed seat valve pressure , lubed the crap out of while spining it over by hand slowly , cranked it with the starter to ensure it built oil pressure on it's own(and it did) filled the carb bowls with fuel, made sure dist was in time, light it up and immediately took it to 2000 rpm. let it set there and run for 1.5 hours - no issues so far

Re: fresh engine started! some questions now [Re: gtx6970] #423305
07/30/09 11:48 AM
07/30/09 11:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
HemiRick Offline
master
HemiRick  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
You did fine. Yes run it at 2000 when you start it again. You wont know if it's all going ok till you run it some more....The 1st sign of problems is a valve that starts ticking.....Listen for this closely....Hopefully you'll never heard it. The extended cranking did not help things but theirs nothing you can do, sometime new engines just dont wanna start.


Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451






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