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Classic events 10 flat shootout thoughts
#380887
07/20/09 12:22 PM
07/20/09 12:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,711
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
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OP
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Firstly, i want to thank John Cope for sponsoring the event, as its a very fun class and i love the pro tree  Now , my HONEST concerns. Imo, the rules have been changed for the worst, and i say this with no ill feelings, as no matter how i do, i am always going to be back at work on Monday mornings to pay my bills and help support my racing hobby.I have won enough 10 flat events that i dont question my skills when the cars are forced to have the same rules applied to everybody in the class(box, weight, etc) My feeling is that the table is way skewed with there being delay boxes allowed, and not having weight rules. I went 040 when i went out Saturday, and frankly, i dont think too many people in a 3350 pound car without a box are going to be too much better than that. I could care less if a car can run 7.50's in the 1/4 , they still have to go 10 flat. But the disparity in weight in this class is, imo, frankly a joke. It shouldnt be a secret to anybody that a 2400 pound car is going to react way quicker with a similar skill set driver than a 3000 pound plus car.Its going to 60 foot better, and react quicker. That is why any 10 flat or 9 flat type events i am aware of always have weight limits,(no delay boxes allowed in the cars,etc) Might this affect car count, sure. Would it be more fair to all who compete, sure it would. I honestly dont have all the answers to that. Perhaps a 500 tree might negate the big advantage a lightweight car has to some degree. Personally, i will still race in it, at Norwalk, as its the only chance to ty a 400 tree we have at these events. Do i think the rules need revamped...yes, without any doubt. Is this sour grapes, i hope its not taken that way, as it isnt meant to be.  
Last edited by B3422W5; 07/20/09 12:25 PM.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8
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Re: Classic events 10 flat shootout thoughts
[Re: wheelsup68dart]
#380889
07/20/09 01:45 PM
07/20/09 01:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,711
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
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OP
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I am not looking to tailor the rules to my car at all, just to have a fairly even playing field for the race. I raced the 10 flat series at Stanton(Mid mich motorplex)for years. 3000 pound minimum for small block, and 3200 for big block, and no delay boxes. My car was still heavier even there than 90% of the cars that showed up, but i was in the top 4 in points or beter up there every year in a very competetive venue. But without a box, and with the minimum weights, nobody has a car capable of going read and being able to "slow down" their reaction time, it made it truly a drivers race, not who had the lightest car and the most electronics....that is essentially my whole point. Heck, the only two classic events i go to are 131 and Norwalk. If i won both of them(800 bucks or so)after gas and entry fees, motel, food, etc that wouldnt even pay for a delay box, if i even wanted one, and i dont.It isnt about the money, i never go racing to supplement my income, i go to win,but sure dont count on doing anything other than spending more than i win You are a great driver, and i am sure will do good no matter the rules. I just would like the cars and equipment to be more level, the drivers well...... Anyhow, i dont think it is going to happen(a rule change)..its just been bugging me for a while and i am not the kind of person who wont say whats on my mind... i am quite positive i am not the only one, but others may not be willing to say what i said publically.... 
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8
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Re: Classic events 10 flat shootout thoughts
[Re: 412 SB Duster]
#380891
07/20/09 02:00 PM
07/20/09 02:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,711
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
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Quote:
With every thing else staying the same just changing to a 500 pro tree would even things out or at least give the usually heavier high 9s cars a even chance at the tree. There would be no down side to the box cars they can just change their delay. Unless you can go red on a 400 pro tree do your really have a shot? 
I remember the first year they had the 10 flat shootout at Norwalk, and it was on a 500 tree, and everybody seemed to like it. Most of the races i had that weekend guys were 25 or 30 or better on the tree, i had a couple of 0 lights myself that weekend.Even footbrake guys have a legit shot at a 500 tree.
That alone would even it up a ton, even if you allowed boxes to still be in the cars.
Correct me if i am wrong but probably 80-90 percent of the guys currently dont use boxes anyhow, just a few do.
When i look in the staging lanes at Classic events, there are WAY fewer box cars than no box cars.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8
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Re: Classic events 10 flat shootout thoughts
[Re: 412 SB Duster]
#380892
07/20/09 02:04 PM
07/20/09 02:04 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
With every thing else staying the same just changing to a 500 pro tree would even things out or at least give the usually heavier high 9s cars a even chance at the tree. There would be no down side to the box cars they can just change their delay. Unless you can go red on a 400 pro tree do your really have a shot?
 I'm one of the light cars but this should
even things up a lot.... and if I recall in the first
year it was a 500 tree
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Re: Classic events 10 flat shootout thoughts
[Re: Hunted Duck]
#380894
07/20/09 02:40 PM
07/20/09 02:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,711
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
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Quote:
Don I think I know what your saying. You want a level playing field. Thats the way it should be. That way everyone has a chance when they roll through the gate. 
Alan(sb412 duster)has the best idea, if you are gonna let boxes and any weight car run, just go back to a 5 tenths pro tree like it used to be, that will even it up considerably and not make any less number of cars be able to run, in fact maybe some footbrakers might have a swing as well.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8
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Re: Classic events 10 flat shootout thoughts
[Re: B3422W5]
#380895
07/20/09 02:54 PM
07/20/09 02:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,557
New Smyrna Beach FL
scottb
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,557
New Smyrna Beach FL
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It still does not mater if its a 500 tree or a 400 tree you just roll more in the box was taking to my brother in law about boxes this morning.Also you have to give Lonnie credit he is racing by the RULES and doing a good job at it
Last edited by scottb; 07/20/09 02:56 PM.
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Re: Classic events 10 flat shootout thoughts
[Re: scottb]
#380896
07/20/09 02:58 PM
07/20/09 02:58 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
S/ST 3040
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
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Quote:
It still does not mater if its a 500 tree or a 400 tree you just roll more in the box was taking to my brother in law about boxes this morning.Also you have to give Lonnie credit he is racing by the RULES and doing a good job at it
But......a 3350 lb car can't react quick enough to use a box.
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Re: Classic events 10 flat shootout thoughts
[Re: scottb]
#380897
07/20/09 03:02 PM
07/20/09 03:02 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Master
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
It still does not mater if its a 500 tree or a 400 tree you just roll more in the box was taking to my brother in law about boxes this morning.Also you have to give Lonnie credit he is racing by the RULES and doing a good job at it
Thats true Scott but a heavier car has a better chance
at getting of the line with the 500 tree VS a light
car on a 400 tree.... sure anyone with a delay box
has a better chance at the perfect light
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Re: Classic events 10 flat shootout thoughts
[Re: S/ST 3040]
#380898
07/20/09 03:04 PM
07/20/09 03:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,711
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
OP
I Live Here
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OP
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Portage,michigan
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Quote:
Quote:
It still does not mater if its a 500 tree or a 400 tree you just roll more in the box was taking to my brother in law about boxes this morning.Also you have to give Lonnie credit he is racing by the RULES and doing a good job at it
But......a 3350 lb car can't react quick enough to use a box.
If i can go 0's on a 500 tree anybody can, but i know i cant on a 400 tree. i still think that is the way to go.
And i did and do give lonnie credit, he is playing by the rules, i just dont think the rules are fair for all competitors....
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8
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Re: Classic events 10 flat shootout thoughts
[Re: S/ST 3040]
#380900
07/20/09 03:10 PM
07/20/09 03:10 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,293
Northeast, Alpine, NY
9 Sec Phill
On a road near you
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On a road near you
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,293
Northeast, Alpine, NY
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Quote:
Quote:
It still does not mater if its a 500 tree or a 400 tree you just roll more in the box was taking to my brother in law about boxes this morning.Also you have to give Lonnie credit he is racing by the RULES and doing a good job at it
But......a 3350 lb car can't react quick enough to use a box.
Then you need to put your 3350 lb car on a diet. Rule are rules, just do your best with what you have.....Phill
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Re: Classic events 10 flat shootout thoughts
[Re: 9 Sec Phill]
#380902
07/20/09 03:15 PM
07/20/09 03:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,711
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,711
Portage,michigan
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
It still does not mater if its a 500 tree or a 400 tree you just roll more in the box was taking to my brother in law about boxes this morning.Also you have to give Lonnie credit he is racing by the RULES and doing a good job at it
But......a 3350 lb car can't react quick enough to use a box.
Then you need to put your 3350 lb car on a diet. Rule are rules, just do your best with what you have.....Phill
I do the best i can..and have fun doing it...my thoughts here are just my opinion, and a suggestion, nothing more and nothing less.....i will race no matter what.
I like my car the way it is, i have no intention of changing it for a better chance at winning 400 bucks a couple of times a year, i dont do it for a living
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8
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Re: Classic events 10 flat shootout thoughts
[Re: 9 Sec Phill]
#380904
07/20/09 03:28 PM
07/20/09 03:28 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
S/ST 3040
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
It still does not mater if its a 500 tree or a 400 tree you just roll more in the box was taking to my brother in law about boxes this morning.Also you have to give Lonnie credit he is racing by the RULES and doing a good job at it
But......a 3350 lb car can't react quick enough to use a box.
Then you need to put your 3350 lb car on a diet. Rule are rules, just do your best with what you have.....Phill
First of all, my car weighs nowhere near 3350 lbs. I'm just stating, that
a high-9 or 10.00 car can't react at 3350# like a mid-9 car at 2200#. I
don't care if Darrell Alderman is running the car.
A .500 tree would even up the starting line advantage.
The CRT 10.00 Shootout is a fun race that a lot of people like to run.
These races are usually tight! Not many want to ante up an entry fee
knowing they have a .12 disadvantage on the tree.
I'm not bitching. I just understand the point being made.
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