Quote:

---

i think i would have tried jetting the box stock holley up for E85.

---

Quote:

---

something is wrong somewhere. I've yet to switch one without picking up. We use a gas A/F meter and tune very close to gas ratios. It is more forgiving than gas, but I just go to max power and that's where the A/F stays. we have a 615 single 4 on the dyno right now that has 60+HP spread from one carb to the other on the same fuel, so that's no surprise. Patrick from prosystems carbs. The one that makes more is only .070 larger bore, it's 40 more average and over 60 more peak. I know Gw can make a gas carb work, but maybe somethings off with E85. there's more 02, volume,and cooling with E85, so don't give up yet. Get the right carb on it and it will pick up.

---

I didnt dyno test my change but on track
the switch to E-85 the car ran IDENTICAL but I didnt
make a single change other than the carb and fuel,
I still havent tweeked in jetting or timing.... so
it wasnt less power thats for sure.... JMO

---

when you compare this is the VP-109 and E-85 or what is it for petrol?

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

i think i would have tried jetting the box stock holley up for E85.

---

That won't work, you need to change all your bleeds, change squirters, cams, and should go to 50cc pumps.
I've seen it done your way but you'll end up with bogs, flat spots, and a car that wants to die at idle. Dave

---

Quote:

---

I talked recently with Garry Williams on my problem. He had previously been on the engines that delivered less on e-85. The problem then was that the intake and cylinder heads for small area to deal with the extra fuel needed to run e-85. A petrol engine that is at the limit when it comes to flow in the intake and cylinder heads do not need to give more power on alcohol.

It was what he told me.

By the way so is the GW carb a 1100cfm he said also.

---

Quote:

---

Get your A/F ratio corrected for E-85 and you'll see it kick azz.
Stoich is 9.765-1, maxpower rich is 6.975-1.

---

Quote:

---

The engine:

400 block hardblock and alu mains
4.15 crank
4.375 bore
flat topp ross pistons att the deck

ported B1-BS flow 350@ .700 milled to 67cc chamber
1009 feel pro
13.7-1 comp ratio
2"-3.5" open headers.

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Get your A/F ratio corrected for E-85 and you'll see it kick azz.
Stoich is 9.765-1, maxpower rich is 6.975-1.

---

When talking about alternate fuels, some people just leave the wide band oxygen sensor on the gasoline calibration, so we have to be careful talking A/F ratio. Lambda is the ratio of actual A/F to stoich, so that never changes with fuel.

6.975/9.765 = 0.71 Lambda and that is pretty rich (but I don't know the best)

Last year my carb was a little lean and I ran around 0.9 Lambda or 8.7 A/F (13.2 on the gas scale). This year I just started running E85 in my Ron's injection and I have it set to .83 Lambda or 8.2 A/F (12.3 A/F on the gas scale). The one change I tried was 12.6 on the gas scale and I didn't see any difference on that one pass. More to come.

From the track times, I estimate during the hot weather, the E85 is roughly 30 hp more than gas, and 30 hp less than methanol. On a 50 degree F day at high barometric pressure, the difference will be small. I ran on those conditions with a gas car and ran 9.12 while he ran 9.10. In 85 deg F conditions he ran 9.45 and I ran 9.23 (methanol).

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I talked recently with Garry Williams on my problem. He had previously been on the engines that delivered less on e-85. The problem then was that the intake and cylinder heads for small area to deal with the extra fuel needed to run e-85. A petrol engine that is at the limit when it comes to flow in the intake and cylinder heads do not need to give more power on alcohol.

It was what he told me.

By the way so is the GW carb a 1100cfm he said also.

---

I've heard Patrick at prosystems say the same about over taking the runner, but every one I've done picks up, even on max effort small head combos. I agree the theory is sound about a runner at 100 percent on gas would suffer with the extra volume, but to one degree or another it would be overcome by the 50 degree difference in intake charge temp using ethanol. The temp reduction would make the mix more dense and allow more through the same cross section and none of us except pro stock are reaching near total efficiency. Plus having 02 in the fuel means you need less air than with gas at the same power.
A member we built a 578 ci -1 motor for came by today to buy an e85 dominator. His motor made a little over 900 on a single 4 using c12. The carb should be here next week, and I’ll try to go to the track with him to sort it out and report back. This motor is using a good bit of the head, so we’ll see.

---

Quote:

---

The engine:
2"-3.5" open headers.

---

Quote:

---

Fast68plymouth dyno test, 493 CID
Includes Hooker Super Comp A-body fenderwells (2" x 43")
versus his dyno headers, stepped 2 to 2-1/8", 32" long (12" + 20")

test A-M1 4150/905 carb/1" open spacer/dyno headers

test B-M1 4150/1050 carb/2" adapter/dyno headers

test C-M1 4500/1050 carb/no spacer/dyno headers

test D-M1 4500/1050 carb/no spacer/ A body 2" headers

rpm---A/tq/hp---B/tq/hp---C/tq/hp---D/tq/hp
3700----------------------------------586/413
3800----------------------------------598/433
3900----------------------------------607/451
4000-521/397---------------524/399---619/471
4100-525/410---519/405----524/409---632/493
4200-555/444---533/426----545/436---631/505
4300-594/486---588/481----599/490---635/520
4400-605/507---594/498----617/517---636/532
4500-611/524---618/530----618/530---640/548
4600-628/550---623/546----628/550---635/556
4700-632/565---634/567----630/564---635/568
4800-628/574---637/582----635/581---632/578
4900-630-587---632/589----634/592---626/584
5000-624/594---625/595----632/602---619/589
5100-623/605---626/608----625/607---619/601
5200-617/611---622/616----624/618---612/606
5300-615/620---621/627----619/625---606/612
5400-609/626---620/637----609/626---599/616
5500-603/631---606/635----612/640---593/621
5600-591/630---600/640----599/639---586/625
5700-587/637---600/651----597/648---578/627
5800-585/646---592/654----592/654---576/636
5900-578/649---589/661----584/656---560/629
6000-571/653---581/664----580/663---553/632
6100-565/656---576/670----576/670---550/639
6200-557/658---567/669----560/661---538/635
6300-546/655---561/673----556/669---526/631
6400-541/660---549/669----544/663---516/629
6500-530/655---541/670----540/668---504/624
6600-518/651---535/672----527/663---494/620
6700-509/650---523/667----518/661---484/617
6800------------514/665----511/662---476/616

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I talked recently with Garry Williams on my problem. He had previously been on the engines that delivered less on e-85. The problem then was that the intake and cylinder heads for small area to deal with the extra fuel needed to run e-85. A petrol engine that is at the limit when it comes to flow in the intake and cylinder heads do not need to give more power on alcohol.

It was what he told me.

By the way so is the GW carb a 1100cfm he said also.

---

I've heard Patrick at prosystems say the same about over taking the runner, but every one I've done picks up, even on max effort small head combos. I agree the theory is sound about a runner at 100 percent on gas would suffer with the extra volume, but to one degree or another it would be overcome by the 50 degree difference in intake charge temp using ethanol. The temp reduction would make the mix more dense and allow more through the same cross section and none of us except pro stock are reaching near total efficiency. Plus having 02 in the fuel means you need less air than with gas at the same power.
A member we built a 578 ci -1 motor for came by today to buy an e85 dominator. His motor made a little over 900 on a single 4 using c12. The carb should be here next week, and I’ll try to go to the track with him to sort it out and report back. This motor is using a good bit of the head, so we’ll see.

---

When you say that all you've done picks up by e-85 what have they gone on the past, it is pump gas or race gas?

I do not understand why I am the only one here who fail to pick up the power of E-85...

---