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430hp 440 #3229579
04/27/24 08:46 PM
04/27/24 08:46 PM
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Keizer, Oregon U.S.A.
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elmor353 Offline OP
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I recently bought a fresh short block from a friend. It is bored .040, forged flat top pistons are .070 in the hole. I also got a fresh set of 452 and 516 heads with it. The heads have been cc'd and are 81cc for the 516's and 89cc for the 452's. I will be using steel shim head gaskets that are .022 thick. I know I will be losing some flow using the 516's. What I'm looking for is what cam and which set of heads to make about 430 horsepower? I will be using a Weiand 8009 intake, 750 vacuum secondary Holley and headers. Any input would be appreciated.

Re: 430hp 440 [Re: elmor353] #3229581
04/27/24 08:55 PM
04/27/24 08:55 PM
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U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
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That's an interesting HP number choice ?


running up my post count some more .
Re: 430hp 440 [Re: elmor353] #3229596
04/27/24 10:11 PM
04/27/24 10:11 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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I don't think you can get there with that cubic inch and compression ratio, sorry worktwocents


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Re: 430hp 440 [Re: Cab_Burge] #3229658
04/28/24 09:10 AM
04/28/24 09:10 AM
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Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
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With a 78 cc chamber your looking at 10 to one.
Something with 240-250 at .050 probably gets it done easy.

I have a 10 to one 440 in my dart right now with stock 906 heads, rods, crank, and cast pistons. its been 11.20's how much hp is that at 3400 w/ driver? Gotta be good for at least 450--475.
Its got the mopar 509. hydraulic. I want to say its 244 at .050 on a 108 lobe sep. by recollection

Re: 430hp 440 [Re: B1MAXX] #3229659
04/28/24 09:14 AM
04/28/24 09:14 AM
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Apollo, PA.
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Get a 750 (at least) double pumper. I have never been able to get a vac. secondary to go fast for a combo, the double pumper was always quicker

Re: 430hp 440 [Re: B1MAXX] #3229664
04/28/24 09:33 AM
04/28/24 09:33 AM
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Central NC
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If those are your choices whichever head needs the least amount of work. If you aren't looking at dumping a ton of money in them go with the 452 and mill them a little.Any porting or at the minimum a GOOD valve job.For a cam that isn't a dog until you get to high rpm's stick with high 220's or low 230's on duration @ .050. May not make your hp number but it will be a lot more fun to drive. Unless you are running 4.10's and a 3500 stall,then I would cam her up another notch.
Compression or head flow.....you don't have either unless you get better flowing heads.

Re: 430hp 440 [Re: gch] #3229679
04/28/24 10:21 AM
04/28/24 10:21 AM
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I wouldn't use any stock head, Aluminum Indy's come to mind.

Re: 430hp 440 [Re: elmor353] #3229710
04/28/24 12:10 PM
04/28/24 12:10 PM
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Oregon
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If you are going to use the parts that you have then go ahead and use them and the power will be what it is. If you want to hit a specific power target then you need to take a different approach. Factory cast iron heads don't make over 400 hp without some help. That "help" can cost a bunch of time and money. Very few people port cast iron heads anymore so that can be a roadblock. TrickFlow 240 heads would bolt on to your short block, but having the pistons so far in the hole will kill some power and the Trick Flow heads might not be in your budget.

Re: 430hp 440 [Re: AndyF] #3229729
04/28/24 01:05 PM
04/28/24 01:05 PM
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Apollo, PA.
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Come on guys a 440 with a 509 back in the day were everywhere running brackets at 11.00 somethings with stock heads, a ported set of heads and you were in the 10's, some around here were in the 9's. Have we really forgotten how to get things to go without spending 3 grand?

Re: 430hp 440 [Re: B1MAXX] #3229730
04/28/24 01:08 PM
04/28/24 01:08 PM
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Apollo, PA.
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81 cc is 9.9 to one.

Re: 430hp 440 [Re: B1MAXX] #3229755
04/28/24 03:33 PM
04/28/24 03:33 PM
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Oregon
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Originally Posted by B1MAXX
Come on guys a 440 with a 509 back in the day were everywhere running brackets at 11.00 somethings with stock heads, a ported set of heads and you were in the 10's, some around here were in the 9's. Have we really forgotten how to get things to go without spending 3 grand?


OP hasn't spelled out what he is trying to do. A 509 cam in a low compression 440 might run okay between 3000 and 5000 rpm, but it will be a pain on the street with daily driver gears. Rough idle, smell bad, bad fuel economy, etc. OP didn't say he had a race car or a tow truck or a daily driver. The Weiand dual plane and 750 vac secondary carb are clues that he isn't going racing.

Last edited by AndyF; 04/28/24 03:34 PM.
Re: 430hp 440 [Re: AndyF] #3229807
04/28/24 07:24 PM
04/28/24 07:24 PM
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Berlin NJ
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Originally Posted by AndyF
[quote=B1MAXX]Come on guys a 440 with a 509 back in the day were everywhere running brackets at 11.00 somethings with stock heads, a ported set of heads and you were in the 10's, some around here were in the 9's. Have we really forgotten how to get things to go without spending 3 grand?


. Rough idle, smell bad, bad fuel economy, etc.

Ah yes.................. up

Re: 430hp 440 [Re: scottk] #3229835
04/28/24 08:53 PM
04/28/24 08:53 PM
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New York
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Re: 430hp 440 [Re: R/T1968R/T] #3229842
04/28/24 09:07 PM
04/28/24 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by R/T1968R/T


But it only made 390 hp with stock heads. Once IQ52 ported the heads it picked up a bunch more. Not sure if IQ52 is alive anymore, haven't seen him post in a number of years but I do know that he stopped porting cast iron heads a long time ago. Too much work is what he told me. That was at least 10 years ago.

Re: 430hp 440 [Re: AndyF] #3229863
04/28/24 11:57 PM
04/28/24 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by AndyF
Originally Posted by B1MAXX
Come on guys a 440 with a 509 back in the day were everywhere running brackets at 11.00 somethings with stock heads, a ported set of heads and you were in the 10's, some around here were in the 9's. Have we really forgotten how to get things to go without spending 3 grand?


OP hasn't spelled out what he is trying to do. A 509 cam in a low compression 440 might run okay between 3000 and 5000 rpm, but it will be a pain on the street with daily driver gears. Rough idle, smell bad, bad fuel economy, etc. OP didn't say he had a race car or a tow truck or a daily driver. The Weiand dual plane and 750 vac secondary carb are clues that he isn't going racing.


The .509 was never intended for a car with 3.23 gears, 12" converter. Iron manifolds, no compression. It would be a dog in that combination. Don't do it.
But with 4.10 gears, 10" converter, headers, and true 10:1 compression it actually runs pretty well. As said by B1MAXX, with decent tires high 11's are easy, 10's are possible if you throw some more money at it. 100's of cars proved this in the 1970's. Are there better cams now? Certainly, almost everything else has been improved since then as well.

Edit: I will add here that advancing the cam at least 4° and recurving the distributor to have about 18-20° at idle and 36 total will also help clean up the idle and exhaust stink.

Last edited by GomangoCuda; 04/29/24 10:07 AM.

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Re: 430hp 440 [Re: AndyF] #3229888
04/29/24 07:03 AM
04/29/24 07:03 AM
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Prospect, PA
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Originally Posted by AndyF
Originally Posted by R/T1968R/T


But it only made 390 hp with stock heads. Once IQ52 ported the heads it picked up a bunch more. Not sure if IQ52 is alive anymore, haven't seen him post in a number of years but I do know that he stopped porting cast iron heads a long time ago. Too much work is what he told me. That was at least 10 years ago.


Exactly. Everyone gets excited about the performance of this low compression 440 in this post. I see it as an acknowledgement that low compression kills a good motor. What a crappy street motor IMO. And, that was fresh, not inexpensive motor.

To the OP, if you’re out of budget, put it together and enjoy it.

Re: 430hp 440 [Re: BSB67] #3229891
04/29/24 07:20 AM
04/29/24 07:20 AM
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Low compression is good for a turbo

Re: 430hp 440 [Re: d-150] #3229894
04/29/24 07:41 AM
04/29/24 07:41 AM
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Apollo, PA.
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9.9 is not low compression. And yes it will have all the attributes that a 450 hp muscle car should have.

Re: 430hp 440 [Re: B1MAXX] #3229941
04/29/24 11:55 AM
04/29/24 11:55 AM
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God's Country Maryland
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Use the 516 heads but first, remove the valves and remove the ridge just below the valve seat, that is the main restriction on these Mopar heads. Mother Mopar put 2.08 intake valves in them but the opening below the seat is only 1 /3/4", grind it off with a carbide burr. If you really want to wake those 516 heads up install 1.74" exhaust valves, stock is only 1.60".

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Re: 430hp 440 [Re: GODSCOUNTRY340] #3230002
04/29/24 03:17 PM
04/29/24 03:17 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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The first stock stroke pump gas 440 motor I built that I had dyno tested in SO CA made 430 HP at or close to 5200 RPM, it had a set of forged Speed Pro, TRW, six pack .030 over 4 valve releif piston with a set of mifdly ported stock valve size 906 heads and a cast iron six pack set up off of 1970 440 six pack motor with stock jetting shruggy
The 2nd motor I dyno built and dyno tested was for his younger Brother, a 400 block with a stock stroke 440 crank in it with a set of blueprinted LY rods, cheap build it was it had a set of mildly ported 906 heads with bigger valves and an Eddy B motor Performer RPM intake and a Holley 750 Vacuum secondary List # 3310, not sure which dash number it was, CRS realcrazy
That motor made right around 470 HP at or close to 6400 RPM, sorry for not remembering the torque values and RPMs blush


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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