430hp 440

I recently bought a fresh short block from a friend. It is bored .040, forged flat top pistons are .070 in the hole. I also got a fresh set of 452 and 516 heads with it. The heads have been cc'd and are 81cc for the 516's and 89cc for the 452's. I will be using steel shim head gaskets that are .022 thick. I know I will be losing some flow using the 516's. What I'm looking for is what cam and which set of heads to make about 430 horsepower? I will be using a Weiand 8009 intake, 750 vacuum secondary Holley and headers. Any input would be appreciated.

That's an interesting HP number choice ?

I don't think you can get there with that cubic inch and compression ratio, sorry

With a 78 cc chamber your looking at 10 to one.
Something with 240-250 at .050 probably gets it done easy.

I have a 10 to one 440 in my dart right now with stock 906 heads, rods, crank, and cast pistons. its been 11.20's how much hp is that at 3400 w/ driver? Gotta be good for at least 450--475.
Its got the mopar 509. hydraulic. I want to say its 244 at .050 on a 108 lobe sep. by recollection

Get a 750 (at least) double pumper. I have never been able to get a vac. secondary to go fast for a combo, the double pumper was always quicker

If those are your choices whichever head needs the least amount of work. If you aren't looking at dumping a ton of money in them go with the 452 and mill them a little.Any porting or at the minimum a GOOD valve job.For a cam that isn't a dog until you get to high rpm's stick with high 220's or low 230's on duration @ .050. May not make your hp number but it will be a lot more fun to drive. Unless you are running 4.10's and a 3500 stall,then I would cam her up another notch.
Compression or head flow.....you don't have either unless you get better flowing heads.

I wouldn't use any stock head, Aluminum Indy's come to mind.

If you are going to use the parts that you have then go ahead and use them and the power will be what it is. If you want to hit a specific power target then you need to take a different approach. Factory cast iron heads don't make over 400 hp without some help. That "help" can cost a bunch of time and money. Very few people port cast iron heads anymore so that can be a roadblock. TrickFlow 240 heads would bolt on to your short block, but having the pistons so far in the hole will kill some power and the Trick Flow heads might not be in your budget.

Come on guys a 440 with a 509 back in the day were everywhere running brackets at 11.00 somethings with stock heads, a ported set of heads and you were in the 10's, some around here were in the 9's. Have we really forgotten how to get things to go without spending 3 grand?

81 cc is 9.9 to one.

OP hasn't spelled out what he is trying to do. A 509 cam in a low compression 440 might run okay between 3000 and 5000 rpm, but it will be a pain on the street with daily driver gears. Rough idle, smell bad, bad fuel economy, etc. OP didn't say he had a race car or a tow truck or a daily driver. The Weiand dual plane and 750 vac secondary carb are clues that he isn't going racing.

. Rough idle, smell bad, bad fuel economy, etc.

Ah yes..................

https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/dyno-testing-a-stock-1972-440.249866/page-2 449 HP from a 7.5 compression smog motor!!

But it only made 390 hp with stock heads. Once IQ52 ported the heads it picked up a bunch more. Not sure if IQ52 is alive anymore, haven't seen him post in a number of years but I do know that he stopped porting cast iron heads a long time ago. Too much work is what he told me. That was at least 10 years ago.

The .509 was never intended for a car with 3.23 gears, 12" converter. Iron manifolds, no compression. It would be a dog in that combination. Don't do it.
But with 4.10 gears, 10" converter, headers, and true 10:1 compression it actually runs pretty well. As said by B1MAXX, with decent tires high 11's are easy, 10's are possible if you throw some more money at it. 100's of cars proved this in the 1970's. Are there better cams now? Certainly, almost everything else has been improved since then as well.

Edit: I will add here that advancing the cam at least 4° and recurving the distributor to have about 18-20° at idle and 36 total will also help clean up the idle and exhaust stink.

Exactly. Everyone gets excited about the performance of this low compression 440 in this post. I see it as an acknowledgement that low compression kills a good motor. What a crappy street motor IMO. And, that was fresh, not inexpensive motor.

To the OP, if you’re out of budget, put it together and enjoy it.

Low compression is good for a turbo

9.9 is not low compression. And yes it will have all the attributes that a 450 hp muscle car should have.

Use the 516 heads but first, remove the valves and remove the ridge just below the valve seat, that is the main restriction on these Mopar heads. Mother Mopar put 2.08 intake valves in them but the opening below the seat is only 1 /3/4", grind it off with a carbide burr. If you really want to wake those 516 heads up install 1.74" exhaust valves, stock is only 1.60".

The first stock stroke pump gas 440 motor I built that I had dyno tested in SO CA made 430 HP at or close to 5200 RPM, it had a set of forged Speed Pro, TRW, six pack .030 over 4 valve releif piston with a set of mifdly ported stock valve size 906 heads and a cast iron six pack set up off of 1970 440 six pack motor with stock jetting
The 2nd motor I dyno built and dyno tested was for his younger Brother, a 400 block with a stock stroke 440 crank in it with a set of blueprinted LY rods, cheap build it was it had a set of mildly ported 906 heads with bigger valves and an Eddy B motor Performer RPM intake and a Holley 750 Vacuum secondary List # 3310, not sure which dash number it was, CRS
That motor made right around 470 HP at or close to 6400 RPM, sorry for not remembering the torque values and RPMs

.070 in the hole? Damn!

that's sort of typical of 440 replacement pistons if you don't get the 6 pack piston , better than .180 in the hole smogger piston.

The 2266F will be .070 in the hole.

His block and 516 heads are essentially a 1966 440. With the 452 heads, a 1971 engine.

Looks like a good candidate for a Comp XE274 or PP280 cam.

A little bowl work will be worthwhile on either set of heads.

Depending on how good the heads end up, should be close to 400hp.

With something like Stealths, an RPM and DP carb I’d expect a solid 425hp+.

Sounds like a 14/13 sec. combo to me. Nowhere near the potential to me. A BB head will go 210 bone stock easy, You just need enough cam to get the HP
Think of stockers they are at stock valve sizes, heads, and comp. ratios and have been 9's. Now they run 270/280 at 50, I am only suggesting 240/250 something.

What converter and gears are we talking here?


I agree with the bowl work if possible can't hurt to much there if you have the tools and inclination.

There you go ....

where's the OP ???

One of my old combos:
-Re-ringed 1968 short block
-346 heads with literally a NAPA store VJ, stock w-upgraded springs, zero porting
-Crower 271HDP cam, stock rockers
-original Torker/780vs/1” open spacer
-moroso under drive pulley
-1-3/4 headers
-factory 11” high stall converter
-4.10’s, 29.5 x 10.5 slicks, SS springs
-3575 race weight

Best of 12.12@112
Shift at 5K, thru the lights at 54-5500

With a std performer and a stock bottom pulley it ran constant 12.40’s @110.

I won some $$$ with that combo.

It probably would have been around the 400hp mark on the dyno(the Moroso chart shows 385 for 112mph@3575lbs).

Do you think more cam and a bigger better carb say an 850dp would make more power?

In other words could the valve jobbed re-ringed 440 made more than the 430hp? I believe there is a lot more left. That's not even a big hydraulic (222 at 50).

Every time I have increase the carb CFM on any semi race,(street and strip also) 440 motors the car went quicker and faster
IE from a single plane Eddy intake (Torker and then to TM7 later) with a 750 Holley Double pumper swapping to an 850 CFM Holley double pumper and then up to a Holley HP 950 CFM. same thing going from a 750 CFM on a Torker to a stock six pack set up and then to a dual four barrel tunnel ram set up with dual 750 CFM double pumpers

IHTHs

Of course there’s more left.
How far you take it depends on what the intentions are for the car.

I ran unported 906’s on my 383, which made nearly 500hp with a very basic bottom end.
It went low-11’s at over 3600lbs.

That doesn’t mean it would have made for a great street cruiser.

I stand by my cam suggestions for someone looking for a 440 in the 1hp/ci range……… with the aforementioned DP/RPM/bowl work.
With the OP’s intake & carb and no porting it’ll obviously be less.

Sure, you can get some of that back by adding a bigger cam, if you’re okay with whatever reduction in street civility that comes with the added duration.

Built a stroker 440 with ported 915 heads, 2.14/1.81 valves max wedge rockers, .718 lift Crane roller cam, 12.8 compression. Don't know the horsepower but the 3100 pound Dart ran best of 10.03 at 133 mph with single 1050 carb on a Victor 440 intake. Outran many aluminum headed 440s, they were not happy this factory iron headed 440 was out ETing them.

Its the combination