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Re: Making a pile of mismatched parts 'work' in a street car
[Re: Craig J]
#3228437
04/21/24 04:29 PM
04/21/24 04:29 PM
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 166
West Palm Beach, Florida
Craig J
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 166
West Palm Beach, Florida
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Unfortunately with 91 octane and the engine warmed up using NGK FR6F plugs, it will try to start/run with the distributor trigger unplugged.
Changing to autolite 3911 plugs did not help.
Last edited by Craig J; 04/21/24 04:30 PM.
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Re: Making a pile of mismatched parts 'work' in a street car
[Re: Craig J]
#3228444
04/21/24 05:53 PM
04/21/24 05:53 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552
Rittman Ohio
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Very close to the same issue I'm into with my 493 in the Savoy. I'm switching over to E85. I already have the carb and I'm working on the fuel pump, lines, and regulator. It would have probably been cheaper to change the cam or pistons but the engine runs really well and doesn't leak so I'm going E85. So far I'm about $1100 into the conversion. Good luck with your deal  Gus 
64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
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Re: Making a pile of mismatched parts 'work' in a street car
[Re: AndyF]
#3228467
04/21/24 07:35 PM
04/21/24 07:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,996
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,996
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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You might be able to get away with some non oxy 91 and maybe a 30 percent mix of e85? If tour carb will flow enough to be fattened up by (as a guess) fifteen percent, it might work. E85 is about 108 octane, so a 30 percent mix will raise octane by about five points. I have never attempted this in a carbed app, so my first thought is study up on this idea to see if it is feasable. My experiance has been with mixing e85 and premium in my ecoboost f150, and it has worked well due to enough system capacity, plus ethanol friendly fuel lines, etc.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Making a pile of mismatched parts 'work' in a street car
[Re: Craig J]
#3228475
04/21/24 08:01 PM
04/21/24 08:01 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,159
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,159
Bend,OR USA
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Which part # head gaskets are you using now?
Are you driving it now or not?
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 04/21/24 08:03 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Making a pile of mismatched parts 'work' in a street car
[Re: Craig J]
#3228560
04/22/24 09:31 AM
04/22/24 09:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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FWIW...I had a 12.2:1 compression 440 w/ 915 iron heads that cranked 220 psi w the 509/292 MP hyd cam. It ran GREAT on 100LL AvGas. My uncle's '68 GTX had a low compression flattop piston 440 w/ open chamber heads and a mild cam. It didn't have much compression, cranked around 170 psi if I recall correctly, but the quench was non existent. It pinged terribly w/ 93 octane and anything more than 30° timing. Splashed in some 100LL, cranked the timing back to 38°, and it was a different animal.
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Making a pile of mismatched parts 'work' in a street car
[Re: Craig J]
#3228581
04/22/24 12:02 PM
04/22/24 12:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,844
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,844
S.E. Michigan
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I like the idea of trying a higher octane gas before tearing into it.
Palm Beach Race Fuels supposedly keeps the Sunoco product line in stock.
It might be good to just get some 260 GT or GT+ and see how it likes it.
Might even get away with a blend.
E85 would probably be a problem solver as well but have to do more work up front
to make it happen.
Cooling the intake charge is supposed to slightly help reduce octane requirement/ per textbook, looks like the carb is bolted
directly to the manifold? If you have enough room for a plastic spacer, it might help very slightly, but probably not enough to notice.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Making a pile of mismatched parts 'work' in a street car
[Re: AndyF]
#3228631
04/22/24 06:48 PM
04/22/24 06:48 PM
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 166
West Palm Beach, Florida
Craig J
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 166
West Palm Beach, Florida
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How much are you going to drive it? If you aren't going to drive it a ton then feed it some av gas or race gas. If you're planning to drive it a lot then you'll need to make a change. Do you have enough information to calculate what the compression ratio is? I thought the eddy heads are 88 cc and that would be 11.1 : 1 But if they are actually 75 cc then it is more like 12.8 : 1 the '75' stamped in the head is not a great sign for me...
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Re: Making a pile of mismatched parts 'work' in a street car
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3228636
04/22/24 07:04 PM
04/22/24 07:04 PM
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 166
West Palm Beach, Florida
Craig J
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 166
West Palm Beach, Florida
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Which part # head gaskets are you using now?
Are you driving it now or not? I was living in Racine Wisconsin and drove it every weekend if it was cool out... I probably have 500 miles on it, but if I shut it off hot the starter could not turn the engine over unless I backed the distributor off about 10 degrees... I have a dual wide band in it and fooled around with the carb a fair bit to get a reasonable afr for idle and cruise... Unfortunately this engine will ping easier than anything I have ever driven... with a stock mopar distributor I can not get a combination of initial timing & full advance that works. If I put in low enough initial timing so that it will start, then I have to open the throttle blades so far that it will "run on" forever when I shut it off hot. If I put in enough advance to make it idle with the throttle blades in a normal range, it won't start when it is hot... I ordered a CB performance black box yesterday, I am hoping that I can put together a timing map that will work with this mess of mismatched parts.
Last edited by Craig J; 04/22/24 07:10 PM.
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Re: Making a pile of mismatched parts 'work' in a street car
[Re: Craig J]
#3228673
04/22/24 11:13 PM
04/22/24 11:13 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,255
IL
furious70
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,255
IL
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I like my H2O injection.
Harley guys like retarded timing for cranking.
Both might be crutches to some people, but they allow the engine to stay in it's aggressive state.
70 Sport Fury
68 Charger
69 Coronet
72 RR
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Re: Making a pile of mismatched parts 'work' in a street car
[Re: Craig J]
#3228690
04/23/24 01:01 AM
04/23/24 01:01 AM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,176
Md.
carnut68
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,176
Md.
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Which part # head gaskets are you using now?
Are you driving it now or not? I was living in Racine Wisconsin and drove it every weekend if it was cool out... I probably have 500 miles on it, but if I shut it off hot the starter could not turn the engine over unless I backed the distributor off about 10 degrees... I have a dual wide band in it and fooled around with the carb a fair bit to get a reasonable afr for idle and cruise... Unfortunately this engine will ping easier than anything I have ever driven... with a stock mopar distributor I can not get a combination of initial timing & full advance that works. If I put in low enough initial timing so that it will start, then I have to open the throttle blades so far that it will "run on" forever when I shut it off hot. If I put in enough advance to make it idle with the throttle blades in a normal range, it won't start when it is hot... I ordered a CB performance black box yesterday, I am hoping that I can put together a timing map that will work with this mess of mismatched parts. Try an ignition cut off switch. Get it cranking throw the switch to fire. Switch off to kill it.
America First!
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Re: Making a pile of mismatched parts 'work' in a street car
[Re: carnut68]
#3228713
04/23/24 09:03 AM
04/23/24 09:03 AM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,161
CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,161
CT
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Your CR should not be in the 12s unless you had the deck cut significantly. If the block wasn’t decked a ton you should be around 11.7:1
That said, its still way too much for pump gas. Especially with no quench.
Fel-Pro 1039 will knock you down to 11.2, still too much. A fel pro 1039 + an 88 CC head would knock you down to 9.8. In my opinion you need to get the CR down below 10:1 to get thar short block comfortable on pump gas. 9.5 would be better.
You can keep what you have an go with a .098 from cometic for 145 for each gasket and get down to 10:1. You can also order a .120 from them (9.4:1) and a .140 (9:1) for 225 a gasket. I don’t have experience running gaskets that thick, but its available.
Your best fix is to run a flat top piston of course but I realize that is probably your last resort. $450 for head gaskets is getting into piston money territory though. Also, your deck and heads are supposed to have a fairly smooth finish to run an MLS gasket like a Cometic.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Making a pile of mismatched parts 'work' in a street car
[Re: Craig J]
#3228719
04/23/24 09:50 AM
04/23/24 09:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,005
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,005
U.S.S.A.
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How much are you going to drive it? If you aren't going to drive it a ton then feed it some av gas or race gas. If you're planning to drive it a lot then you'll need to make a change. Do you have enough information to calculate what the compression ratio is? I thought the eddy heads are 88 cc and that would be 11.1 : 1 But if they are actually 75 cc then it is more like 12.8 : 1 the '75' stamped in the head is not a great sign for me... Which heads are they , the regular eddy heads , which I believe were 84cc , the head they made for step head pistons was 88 and only the newer e streets were 75 .
running up my post count some more .
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Re: Making a pile of mismatched parts 'work' in a street car
[Re: JohnRR]
#3228786
04/23/24 01:42 PM
04/23/24 01:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,875
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,875
Weddington, N.C.
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The Cam is not exactly a "broomstick", bigger than a 440 Magnum cam,
The Performer intake is a doorstop (small cross section designed for smog motors) and IMO it's no better than an Iron Magnum,,,,
I would 100% try going to a street single plane (like a 440 Street Dominator) which will both lower your idle vacuum a tad and...if you fatten up the jetting (i suspect you are lean) that will definitely help with drivability.
What is the distributor curve? Vacuum advance?. Big opportunities there.
Either get an adjustable canister and dial most of it out (too agressive off idle) or get FBO to build you one.
The Heads should help reduce ping all else being equal. if that is a 110 cam where is it in at? go in straight up (110) or even 2 retarded and that will kill a little cylinder pressure right there.
Running a big oil cooler and transmission will lower internal cylinder head temps as well. The radiator won't have to work nearly as hard and oil does ~1/2 your cooling anyway.
Last edited by Streetwize; 04/23/24 01:48 PM.
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