steering lock-to-lock way off
#3203312
01/08/24 09:39 PM
01/08/24 09:39 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 985 montreal,quebec,canada
buzz440
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 985
montreal,quebec,canada
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Hi all, bit of a problem here, I have a 69 Superbee 440, manual steering, 4 speed...I restored the the car and put in a (new) steering box and had my steering column rebuilt by Jules years ago before he passed so I know it was well done. Here is the problem; oem woodgrain steering wheel centered on master spline on column end (check), coupler master spline centered with master spline on steering box (check)... the following test done without pitman arm attached, turn steering to the right 2 3/4 turns to lock, come back to center, turn steering to the left 2 3/4 to lock, so far so good. Now, hook up pitman arm (note) bottom of steering box has 4 master splines so does my brand new Moog pitman arm so I line up the spline that falls with everything centered pointing straight, now when I turn the steering to the right I get like 3 1/4 - 3 1/2 turns to lock and about 1 1/2- 1 3/4 turns when I turn to the left??? I've had the pitman off about 6 times trying all sorts of offsets so I can get the same amount of turns left to right. All the suspension parts are new and set pretty straight (by eye) for now til I can the car to the alignment shop but still makes no sense being that far off side to side. Funny how it goes out of whack only when the pitman arm is installed. Is it possible that I got a wrong pitman arm or have I overlooked something ? NEED help before I take a hammer to something.
Later, BUZZ
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Re: steering lock-to-lock way off
[Re: buzz440]
#3203361
01/09/24 06:56 AM
01/09/24 06:56 AM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,924 ohio
ruderunner
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,924
ohio
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Yes, all splines, steering box, steering coupler and steering wheel all at 12 o'clock and still unequal turns left to right. I was even thinking of opening up the coupler and turning the column shaft 180 degrees but that would only correct it by 1/2 a turn at most. This is leading me to suspect that even though it is a (new in box) Moog part it could be wrong. Question, is there a difference between power steering and manual steering pitman arms ?
Later, BUZZ The coupler would change things by a half turn IN EACH DIRECTION. 2 directions would equal a full turn, about the difference you need. Drop the tie rods but leave the center link, retry finding center, does the pitman arm point straight back? Also, check for interference, center link hitting a header or some such? Worst case, you can grind the master splines out of the arm. But, I bet you find the problem elsewhere.
Last edited by ruderunner; 01/09/24 06:58 AM.
Angry white pureblood male
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Re: steering lock-to-lock way off
[Re: ruderunner]
#3203442
01/09/24 04:21 PM
01/09/24 04:21 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 985 montreal,quebec,canada
buzz440
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 985
montreal,quebec,canada
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ruderunner, you win the prize, completely forgot about the tie rods and sure enough left side shows 2" plus threads on both the inner and outer tie rods and on the right side both tie rods turned in right up against the sleeve. I did what you said, dropped both tie rod sets and just left the pitman and idler arms attached and tried it out... I get 2 3/4 turns to stop on the right and 2 and almost 3/4 on the left ,its maybe 1/8 of a turn off , can this be corrected before I hook up back the tie rod sets? If not I can live with an 1/8 off rather than a turn and 1/2 off...... Thanks to all that replied, now off to the alignment shop we go.
Later, BUZZ
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Re: steering lock-to-lock way off
[Re: buzz440]
#3203465
01/09/24 06:24 PM
01/09/24 06:24 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,924 ohio
ruderunner
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,924
ohio
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Someone else mentioned the tie rods being out of whack.
I wouldn't worry about an 1/8 turn,
Angry white pureblood male
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Re: steering lock-to-lock way off
[Re: ruderunner]
#3203642
01/10/24 05:06 PM
01/10/24 05:06 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 985 montreal,quebec,canada
buzz440
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 985
montreal,quebec,canada
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FALSE ALARM ! the joy lasted for about 1 hour.... as i mentioned yesterday (with out the tie rod sets attached) i did get my 2 3/4 turns but noticed that one of the tie rod sets were screwed out way to far... so I re centered everything ,hooked up the tie rod sets and with one person holding the steering wheel dead center, I adjusted the tie rods so there is an equal amount of threads showing at the sleeve between the inner and outer tie rods and making sure both wheels are pointing straight ahead with the same measured distance between inner tire and frame... results; seems to turn equally both ways (BUT) the edges of the tires touch both the frame and sway bar depending on which way you turn and this happens before it reaches the end (lock)........ now I'm getting real pissed with this, it's a simple system but nothings working. FYI, not a oversize tire problem either , it has the stock G70-15's on 6" steel rims. I did check (all) my steering parts all the right ones for this application plus nothing bent car never had an accident. This one has me stumped.
Later, BUZZ
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Re: steering lock-to-lock way off
[Re: buzz440]
#3204169
01/12/24 07:28 PM
01/12/24 07:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,497 Minnesota
Hemi_Joel
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,497
Minnesota
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The tie rod threads being equal or not is irrelevant. The tie rod lengths and threads are imprecise. What is relevant is: Steering box centered, steering wheel centered, wheels pointing straight ahead. So, with the box centered, steering wheel centered, adjust the tie rods so that the wheels are straight ahead with 1/16" toe in per side, (set up some strings on jack stands to check it). Make sure the steering wheel doesn't move during this process. Then when you test drive the car if the steering wheel is a little off, fine tune it in with the tie rod adjustments, turning both sides an equal amount to center the steering wheel. If a tie rod sleeve looks to be way over extended, reconfigure the U-joint 180 to bring it back. That should be all you need to do, unless you have wrong parts or something serious bent or mis-installed.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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Re: steering lock-to-lock way off
[Re: Hemi_Joel]
#3204210
01/12/24 10:35 PM
01/12/24 10:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,924 ohio
ruderunner
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,924
ohio
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This. Unless this is An extra length pitman arm or the stops in the box have been modified. The tires shouldn't be hitting in either direction, much less both
Got pictures?
Angry white pureblood male
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