steering lock-to-lock way off

Hi all, bit of a problem here, I have a 69 Superbee 440, manual steering, 4 speed...I restored the the car and put in a (new) steering box and had my steering column rebuilt by Jules years ago before he passed so I know it was well done. Here is the problem; oem woodgrain steering wheel centered on master spline on column end (check), coupler master spline centered with master spline on steering box (check)... the following test done without pitman arm attached, turn steering to the right 2 3/4 turns to lock, come back to center, turn steering to the left 2 3/4 to lock, so far so good. Now, hook up pitman arm (note) bottom of steering box has 4 master splines so does my brand new Moog pitman arm so I line up the spline that falls with everything centered pointing straight, now when I turn the steering to the right I get like 3 1/4 - 3 1/2 turns to lock and about 1 1/2- 1 3/4 turns when I turn to the left??? I've had the pitman off about 6 times trying all sorts of offsets so I can get the same amount of turns left to right. All the suspension parts are new and set pretty straight (by eye) for now til I can the car to the alignment shop but still makes no sense being that far off side to side. Funny how it goes out of whack only when the pitman arm is installed. Is it possible that I got a wrong pitman arm or have I overlooked something ? NEED help before I take a hammer to something.

Later, BUZZ

Is your coupler 180 off where the shaft goes in. With the wheel spline at 12 the box spline should be at 12.

Yes, all splines, steering box, steering coupler and steering wheel all at 12 o'clock and still unequal turns left to right. I was even thinking of opening up the coupler and turning the column shaft 180 degrees but that would only correct it by 1/2 a turn at most. This is leading me to suspect that even though it is a (new in box) Moog part it could be wrong. Question, is there a difference between power steering and manual steering pitman arms ?

Later, BUZZ

Are there equal threads sticking out all tie rod ends? I had a Charger that turned like you said. Barely turned one direction, and tires hit the frame the other. Best I could tell is the coupler came apart, and they reinstalled it 180 out, then turned the tie rod ends to get the steering wheel straight. It was pretty obvious, one side at the end of the threads, and the other screwed in all the way.

The coupler would change things by a half turn IN EACH DIRECTION. 2 directions would equal a full turn, about the difference you need.

Drop the tie rods but leave the center link, retry finding center, does the pitman arm point straight back?

Also, check for interference, center link hitting a header or some such?

Worst case, you can grind the master splines out of the arm. But, I bet you find the problem elsewhere.

ruderunner, you win the prize, completely forgot about the tie rods and sure enough left side shows 2" plus threads on both the inner and outer tie rods and on the right side both tie rods turned in right up against the sleeve. I did what you said, dropped both tie rod sets and just left the pitman and idler arms attached and tried it out... I get 2 3/4 turns to stop on the right and 2 and almost 3/4 on the left ,its maybe 1/8 of a turn off , can this be corrected before I hook up back the tie rod sets? If not I can live with an 1/8 off rather than a turn and 1/2 off...... Thanks to all that replied, now off to the alignment shop we go.

Later, BUZZ

Someone else mentioned the tie rods being out of whack.

I wouldn't worry about an 1/8 turn,

FALSE ALARM ! the joy lasted for about 1 hour.... as i mentioned yesterday (with out the tie rod sets attached) i did get my 2 3/4 turns but noticed that one of the tie rod sets were screwed out way to far... so I re centered everything ,hooked up the tie rod sets and with one person holding the steering wheel dead center, I adjusted the tie rods so there is an equal amount of threads showing at the sleeve between the inner and outer tie rods and making sure both wheels are pointing straight ahead with the same measured distance between inner tire and frame... results; seems to turn equally both ways (BUT) the edges of the tires touch both the frame and sway bar depending on which way you turn and this happens before it reaches the end (lock)........ now I'm getting real pissed with this, it's a simple system but nothings working. FYI, not a oversize tire problem either , it has the stock G70-15's on 6" steel rims. I did check (all) my steering parts all the right ones for this application plus nothing bent car never had an accident. This one has me stumped.

Later, BUZZ

The tie rod threads being equal or not is irrelevant. The tie rod lengths and threads are imprecise. What is relevant is: Steering box centered, steering wheel centered, wheels pointing straight ahead. So, with the box centered, steering wheel centered, adjust the tie rods so that the wheels are straight ahead with 1/16" toe in per side, (set up some strings on jack stands to check it). Make sure the steering wheel doesn't move during this process. Then when you test drive the car if the steering wheel is a little off, fine tune it in with the tie rod adjustments, turning both sides an equal amount to center the steering wheel. If a tie rod sleeve looks to be way over extended, reconfigure the U-joint 180 to bring it back. That should be all you need to do, unless you have wrong parts or something serious bent or mis-installed.

This. Unless this is
An extra length pitman arm or the stops in the box have been modified. The tires shouldn't be hitting in either direction, much less both

Got pictures?

There's no mention of camber/caster if there still way out you need to get them closer to spec before loosing your mind.

This is a geometry problem with the steering linkage. The steering box was changed and the new steering box is not in alignment with the rest of the system.
If it was...the length of the tie rods would be the same. It is bit critical for the lengths to be close esp if there are big tires. It's a geometry thing. the center-line of the box is not in alignment with the center-line of the steering linkage.

To correct use a quality shim/hardened washer. The right to left as well as the up and down geometry of the box needs to be checked. With the car level on a level surface a series of measurements need to be made. A good tape measure works well. The 4 corners of the car [wheel postition] need to be checkered for square as well using a plumb bob and good tape measure. Length width and diagonal.