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Run Stand - Starter set up #3182657
10/10/23 07:23 AM
10/10/23 07:23 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 553
Kentucky
clovis Offline OP
mopar
clovis  Offline OP
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Kentucky
I have another thread going on my oil pressure issue but have now got another issue going with my starter on the run stand.

I have had issues in the past with mounting the starter on the run stand. I have a cut-up torque converter from a 318 and a 143 tooth flywheel from a truck. I have two mounting plates and I have two starters booth 10 tooth. I had my spare on the run stand and was having trouble with it turning the engine over and it keep blowing my fused 12v connection to the distribution/coil. I just had everything together with clamps and thought that was my issue. I have the primary power going to the starter via a set of jumper cables. I secured everything and then put my wheeled box charger on the battery to ensure my voltage stayed up. Spun the motor over a few times then noticed smoke coming from my jumper cables to the starter. The wire burned through the insulation, so I am going to assume my starter has some type of short.

I am using my homemade plate and the 143 tooth flywheel to start.

Fast forward, I grab the starter off the car (which I believe is from a Dakota). Now i am having alignment issues with the flywheel. The two starters do not put the bendix in the same location and the teeth have a different shape-they are close but not the same. I guess my primary question what is the proper distance that the bendix is from the flywheel? I do have a little wiggle room in moving the starter but it seems no matter where I put it it doesn’t want to engage properly to the flywheel. Would the Dakota starter not work with the 143 tooth flywheel for some reason (i.e. tooth design)?

IMG_4351.jpegIMG_4354.jpegIMG_4355.jpegIMG_4358.jpeg

'75 Plymouth Duster
Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126
Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135
Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
Re: Run Stand - Starter set up [Re: clovis] #3182694
10/10/23 10:34 AM
10/10/23 10:34 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,021
NY
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B1duster Offline
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NY
I believe the starters are the same. My guess would be you need to open the holes in the mounting plate a little and give the starter gear more clearance out away from the flywheel.

Re: Run Stand - Starter set up [Re: B1duster] #3182699
10/10/23 11:01 AM
10/10/23 11:01 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 553
Kentucky
clovis Offline OP
mopar
clovis  Offline OP
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Posts: 553
Kentucky
The only reason why I say the starters are different is when I use my other starter plate with the 318 converter, the little starter bendix will hit the ring and not allow you to mount the starter when you put in the big starter it will allow you to mount it.

IMG_4357.jpegIMG_4361.jpegIMG_4360.jpegIMG_4359.jpeg
Last edited by clovis; 10/12/23 09:55 PM.

'75 Plymouth Duster
Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126
Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135
Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
Re: Run Stand - Starter set up [Re: clovis] #3182707
10/10/23 11:34 AM
10/10/23 11:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,639
Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman Offline
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Stuttgart, Arkansas
I'm no expert on this but I just went through this on my test stand. (Mine is big block.) I had a 143 tooth flywheel and a 10-1/2" bellhousing but that flywheel is for a 11" clutch. (I think they use the same starter.) So I got a 10-1/2" flywheel. That worked with my bellhousing.


2011 Drag Pak Challenger
Re: Run Stand - Starter set up [Re: rickseeman] #3183221
10/11/23 09:04 PM
10/11/23 09:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,487
Minnesota
Hemi_Joel Offline
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The problem is your jumper cables, they are junk. It looks like about a 10 gauge wire. Too much resistance, too much voltage drop. Go back to the original starter that fits, use some real battery cables of at least 4 gauge, or even 2 gauge, properly connected.


[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]
31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum
RS23J71
RS27J77
RP23J71
RO23J71
WM21J8A
I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
Re: Run Stand - Starter set up [Re: Hemi_Joel] #3183374
10/12/23 02:32 PM
10/12/23 02:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,383
north of coder
moparx Offline
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north of coder
guys are very often misled about jumper cables because of the size of the insulation around the cable itself.
a quick peek at where the clamps are attached to the cable reveals the true size of the cable itself.
you won't find quality jumper cables at your local wally world.............
beer

Re: Run Stand - Starter set up [Re: moparx] #3183424
10/12/23 04:40 PM
10/12/23 04:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 553
Kentucky
clovis Offline OP
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clovis  Offline OP
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Kentucky
Looks like I am one of those guys.

I have a box of wire, so I already some 0/1 and 0/2 wire. I will move my battery to the side of the stand and create a short run of 0/1 wire to the starter. I will go back to my "big" starter and see where that gets me.
What you guys are saying makes perfect sense and after looking at the wire, its probably 8 gauge at best and it is at least 6 feet. I should be able to give it a go tomorrow, so I will update.

Appreciate the help.


'75 Plymouth Duster
Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126
Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135
Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
Re: Run Stand - Starter set up [Re: Hemi_Joel] #3183498
10/12/23 09:42 PM
10/12/23 09:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,141
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
Originally Posted by Hemi_Joel
The problem is your jumper cables, they are junk. It looks like about a 10 gauge wire. Too much resistance, too much voltage drop. Go back to the original starter that fits, use some real battery cables of at least 4 gauge, or even 2 gauge, properly connected.
iagree whiney work


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Run Stand - Starter set up [Re: Cab_Burge] #3183652
10/13/23 02:39 PM
10/13/23 02:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 553
Kentucky
clovis Offline OP
mopar
clovis  Offline OP
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Kentucky
Went down to the shop at lunch.

Used about 3 feet of 1/0 wire from the battery to the starter (big starter) and a 6 gauge wire for the ground-crazy thing fired right up.

Thank for the help.


'75 Plymouth Duster
Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126
Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135
Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
Re: Run Stand - Starter set up [Re: clovis] #3183665
10/13/23 03:30 PM
10/13/23 03:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 421
montana
BANDIT Offline
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montana
I know you went to a lot of work to make your flex plates, and I'm not knocking them. I just use a 6 and an 8-bolt neutral balanced flywheel and a bellhousing for an LA and B engine. If I need to, I bolt weight on for cast cranks. I have an older factory Denso starter with the snout cut off, and it works fine on either one. Snout was cut so that it worked on my RB/Powerglide set-up. I do have a Chevy starter and ring gear laying around, also.


64 Dodge Coronet 440. In progress
1998. Dodge Avenger. 8.35@165. 4400 DA
250” Neil and Parks Slip Joint. 7.36@183.
4600 DA
242" Mullis Dragster. 6.90@ 200mph
Re: Run Stand - Starter set up [Re: clovis] #3183699
10/13/23 04:51 PM
10/13/23 04:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,487
Minnesota
Hemi_Joel Offline
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Hemi_Joel  Offline
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Minnesota
Originally Posted by clovis
Went down to the shop at lunch.

Used about 3 feet of 1/0 wire from the battery to the starter (big starter) and a 6 gauge wire for the ground-crazy thing fired right up.

Thank for the help.



Glad it worked out! up


[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]
31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum
RS23J71
RS27J77
RP23J71
RO23J71
WM21J8A
I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
Re: Run Stand - Starter set up [Re: Hemi_Joel] #3183902
10/14/23 01:53 PM
10/14/23 01:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,383
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
moparx  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,383
north of coder
happy you seem to have the problem solved. up
beer

Re: Run Stand - Starter set up [Re: clovis] #3184044
10/15/23 03:35 AM
10/15/23 03:35 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,141
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Posts: 43,141
Bend,OR USA
Originally Posted by clovis
Went down to the shop at lunch.

Used about 3 feet of 1/0 wire from the battery to the starter (big starter) and a 6 gauge wire for the ground-crazy thing fired right up.

Thank for the help.

You need a bigger "ground" cable than the positive side, all the current in batteries travels, flows, out the negative side and returns to the battery through the circuit on the positive cable scope work
Hence the old adage that you can never have to many good grounds on D.C battery powered circuits scope wrench

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 10/15/23 03:37 AM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Run Stand - Starter set up [Re: Cab_Burge] #3189981
11/10/23 12:48 AM
11/10/23 12:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 553
Kentucky
clovis Offline OP
mopar
clovis  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 553
Kentucky
This has actually caused me to make my own run stand. The one I use now, belongs to a friend and it is a nice beefy stand but I usually have to spend a little time converting it back to a big block Chrysler as he does a variety of builds and he changes it up. The second down side is storage it is nice and beefy but it takes up a lot of space in the shop. Third, because of its footprint it is very difficult to get my cherry picker close enough to get the engine mounted. In the end, i wanted something easy to store, and would allow an easy transition from the build stand.

I looked at a ton of pictures and come up with the idea to build an adapter to the run stand. I ran across an ancient build stand on the cheap that was pretty well built and had a couple of things you didn’t have in the standard stands you get now days. The first was a full front gusset and the second was longer attachment tubes that would allow room for the flex plate. I built a simple crossmember that allows me to attach two legs to the block mounts and have some adjustment for length (upward pressure). Since I used angle iron for the crossmember I made feet for each end that can extend to the floor, this actually made the whole thing very solid.

I rolled it over under my lift and zip tied a set of gauges to the lift and put the battery on little dolly I can roll around. In less than 30 minutes I can have it able to run. The only thing I have to store is 1 piece of angle iron and 2 pieces of square tubing that are less than two feet long.

IMG_4637.jpegIMG_4651.jpegIMG_4644.jpeg

'75 Plymouth Duster
Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126
Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135
Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
Re: Run Stand - Starter set up [Re: clovis] #3190451
11/12/23 02:45 PM
11/12/23 02:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 421
montana
BANDIT Offline
mopar
BANDIT  Offline
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Posts: 421
montana
I built my own, also. It is all self contained, fuel, battery, and cooling system. Built it out of stuff laying around shop. Its hi enough that my cherry picker slides underneath, and stout enough to hold anything. Does take up a little more room, but if i leave an engine on it, I can go out to shop in the middle of winter and fire up an open headered motor for the fun of it! Most of the time it just collects spare parts until I need it again.

IMG_0165[782].jpgIMG_0166[781].jpg

64 Dodge Coronet 440. In progress
1998. Dodge Avenger. 8.35@165. 4400 DA
250” Neil and Parks Slip Joint. 7.36@183.
4600 DA
242" Mullis Dragster. 6.90@ 200mph






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