Re: Small block windage tray for stroker application
[Re: fastmark]
#3178614
09/27/23 01:27 PM
09/27/23 01:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,555 Eagle, Idaho
Neil
The Doctor is in.
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The Doctor is in.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,555
Eagle, Idaho
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I had a Milodon one and it rubbed when the Milodon deep sump pan was installed. I was turning the engine over by hand and heard a super faint metal on metal sound so I took the pan off and the sound went away. I had already trimmed material off the sides of it and it still rubbed despite it having what appeared to be plenty of clearance with the pan off.
I would put some clay on whatever one your using and then turn it by hand with the pan on and then pull the pan back off to check for any contact. The Milodon one was too wide for the pan and would get wedged up and distorted enough that it would touch the longer crank throws,
Last edited by Neil; 09/27/23 01:28 PM.
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Re: Small block windage tray for stroker application
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3178698
09/27/23 04:25 PM
09/27/23 04:25 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
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I haven’t used a windage tray for close to 30 years. My question to you is does it trap oil in, or out. Hmmmmm
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Small block windage tray for stroker application
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#3178707
09/27/23 05:15 PM
09/27/23 05:15 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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I haven’t used a windage tray for close to 30 years. My question to you is does it trap oil in, or out. Hmmmmm
Both. If it’s made correctly.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Small block windage tray for stroker application
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#3178710
09/27/23 05:35 PM
09/27/23 05:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,871 Central Florida
larrymopar360
Stud Muffin
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Stud Muffin
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,871
Central Florida
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I haven’t used a windage tray for close to 30 years. My question to you is does it trap oil in, or out. Hmmmmm
My thought is that gravity draws the oil down into sump and tray keeps it there.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Small block windage tray for stroker application
[Re: fastmark]
#3178837
09/27/23 09:04 PM
09/27/23 09:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,760 Windsor, ON, Canada
Diplomat360
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,760
Windsor, ON, Canada
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I used to run the MP windage tray in my 360 build, and for that I think it did what it was meant to do. But that was with a factory oil pan that had some oil baffled welded in.
In my 408 stroker, which has the Milodon 30940 pan that's 8 quarts, I measured things up prior to the assembly, and given that that pan already has a pretty extensive baffle setup, I simply did NOT install the windage tray. I had two to chose from, the original MP or the Milodon one.
Attached is a pic with the dispstick showing the 8 quart "oil-line" (but reversed since the motor is flipped around on the engine stand). This btw is with the crank counterweights at their longest 'reach', meaning the full counterweight is showing.
How is it working out?
Well, the motor seems to be happy, I have good oil pressure, although at idle (800-850) I get down to about 15 PSI with my 10W30 oil grade. This is sufficient, although I would prefer another 5-10 PSI extra.
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Re: Small block windage tray for stroker application
[Re: Diplomat360]
#3178851
09/27/23 09:33 PM
09/27/23 09:33 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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I used to run the MP windage tray in my 360 build, and for that I think it did what it was meant to do. But that was with a factory oil pan that had some oil baffled welded in.
In my 408 stroker, which has the Milodon 30940 pan that's 8 quarts, I measured things up prior to the assembly, and given that that pan already has a pretty extensive baffle setup, I simply did NOT install the windage tray. I had two to chose from, the original MP or the Milodon one.
Attached is a pic with the dispstick showing the 8 quart "oil-line" (but reversed since the motor is flipped around on the engine stand). This btw is with the crank counterweights at their longest 'reach', meaning the full counterweight is showing.
How is it working out?
Well, the motor seems to be happy, I have good oil pressure, although at idle (800-850) I get down to about 15 PSI with my 10W30 oil grade. This is sufficient, although I would prefer another 5-10 PSI extra. And what happens to that oil level when the oil is hot and thin as water and you step on the brakes? Or put your foot in it? Baffles and oil level don’t do anything for that.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Small block windage tray for stroker application
[Re: madscientist]
#3178857
09/27/23 10:10 PM
09/27/23 10:10 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
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I used to run the MP windage tray in my 360 build, and for that I think it did what it was meant to do. But that was with a factory oil pan that had some oil baffled welded in.
In my 408 stroker, which has the Milodon 30940 pan that's 8 quarts, I measured things up prior to the assembly, and given that that pan already has a pretty extensive baffle setup, I simply did NOT install the windage tray. I had two to chose from, the original MP or the Milodon one.
Attached is a pic with the dispstick showing the 8 quart "oil-line" (but reversed since the motor is flipped around on the engine stand). This btw is with the crank counterweights at their longest 'reach', meaning the full counterweight is showing.
How is it working out?
Well, the motor seems to be happy, I have good oil pressure, although at idle (800-850) I get down to about 15 PSI with my 10W30 oil grade. This is sufficient, although I would prefer another 5-10 PSI extra. And what happens to that oil level when the oil is hot and thin as water and you step on the brakes? Or put your foot in it? Baffles and oil level don’t do anything for that. Running 10-30 oil if there was an issue with that I would see it on my RacePak readout like I did on my Canton oil pan.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Small block windage tray for stroker application
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#3178863
09/27/23 10:26 PM
09/27/23 10:26 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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I used to run the MP windage tray in my 360 build, and for that I think it did what it was meant to do. But that was with a factory oil pan that had some oil baffled welded in.
In my 408 stroker, which has the Milodon 30940 pan that's 8 quarts, I measured things up prior to the assembly, and given that that pan already has a pretty extensive baffle setup, I simply did NOT install the windage tray. I had two to chose from, the original MP or the Milodon one.
Attached is a pic with the dispstick showing the 8 quart "oil-line" (but reversed since the motor is flipped around on the engine stand). This btw is with the crank counterweights at their longest 'reach', meaning the full counterweight is showing.
How is it working out?
Well, the motor seems to be happy, I have good oil pressure, although at idle (800-850) I get down to about 15 PSI with my 10W30 oil grade. This is sufficient, although I would prefer another 5-10 PSI extra. And what happens to that oil level when the oil is hot and thin as water and you step on the brakes? Or put your foot in it? Baffles and oil level don’t do anything for that. Running 10-30 oil if there was an issue with that I would see it on my RacePak readout like I did on my Canton oil pan. Uncovering the pickup isn’t the only thing to look at, although if you are uncovering the pickup you will be crapping out parts pretty quick. When I get my garbage on the dyno I’m going to test it without a windage tray and crank scraper, with a windage tray and no scraper, a scraper and no windage tray and then with both the windage tray and the scraper. I do know when I put it together the last time I picked up 8-10 psi oil pressure everywhere. That tells me the crank scraper is doing work. It also means if that is the case I can drop down to a standard volume pump and that saves some horsepower (maybe).
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Small block windage tray for stroker application
[Re: fastmark]
#3178865
09/27/23 10:31 PM
09/27/23 10:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,034 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,034
Oregon
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What is everyone using for a windage tray on a small 340 block and a 4” crank? I’m using a stock pan as well. This is a street car. The stock one is not hitting that bad so I may be able to space it down and massage it a little. If you can make a stock one work then do that. You'll be money ahead since the aftermarket trays all cost money and many of them don't work very well.
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Re: Small block windage tray for stroker application
[Re: madscientist]
#3178894
09/28/23 02:39 AM
09/28/23 02:39 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,174 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,174
Bend,OR USA
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Last edited by Cab_Burge; 09/28/23 02:48 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Small block windage tray for stroker application
[Re: topside]
#3179065
09/28/23 06:30 PM
09/28/23 06:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,871 Central Florida
larrymopar360
Stud Muffin
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Stud Muffin
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,871
Central Florida
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This is the nice Milodon I have in my 408 Stroker, 8qt sump
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Small block windage tray for stroker application
[Re: larrymopar360]
#3179066
09/28/23 06:31 PM
09/28/23 06:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,871 Central Florida
larrymopar360
Stud Muffin
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Stud Muffin
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,871
Central Florida
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The factory 5.7 has a very nice pan IMO (Charger Police anyway not sure about trucks etc.)
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Small block windage tray for stroker application
[Re: larrymopar360]
#3179150
09/28/23 10:38 PM
09/28/23 10:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,760 Windsor, ON, Canada
Diplomat360
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,760
Windsor, ON, Canada
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This is the nice Milodon I have in my 408 Stroker, 8qt sump Same pan as what I'm running, and that's the one with the pan side-flare at the bottom, which means the oil has a lot more room to slosh around there, and that should prevent a lot of that volume making it's way up top. So for comparison's sake, here are a few pics of what the old 360 motor (stock stroke) with the MP windage tray looked like (using the same disptick I carried over to my 408 stroker, so the "scale" in relation to the rest of the block is the same). Also included my little DIY factory pan baffle, which was a copy of something from one of the Mopar mags. I think it helped a tad...not sure if that ever translated to any HP gains though?
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Re: Small block windage tray for stroker application
[Re: Diplomat360]
#3180616
10/03/23 02:49 PM
10/03/23 02:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442 NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
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Its always been a cryin shame that MaMopar never had some kind of factory sump baffles in the SB oil pan... absolutely asking and inviting for oil pump cavitation whenever hard g-forces (acceleration, deceleration, cornering) would come along. I welded in sump baffles into the bottom of my factory oil pan over 40 years ago when I began autocrossing (and some drag racing, road course racing, etc)... it was the single best modification I'd ever made to save the engine and the internal bearings from self destruction. And... recently, I've been running the Milodon road race oil pan... was a bit difficult to install within the factory k-frame (needing some minor cutting to fit the oil pan's widened sump), as well as fitting the Milodon windage tray (needing LOTS of massaging/radiusing to clear the H-beam rods from my 4" stroker)... but worth the time and expense. Also... the Milodon oil pump tube needed slight massaging (squeezing) to clear the point of contact at the windage tray... so that the pickup would not hold up the pan upon clamping it down.
Last edited by Mopar Mitch; 10/03/23 02:52 PM.
Mopar Mitch
"Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers!
Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
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