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Swapping Front Bearing Retainer - Large to Small #3152767 06/19/23 05:52 PM 06/19/23 05:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,283 Danville, NH M Mopar_Mike OP master
Mopar_Mike OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,283 Danville, NH	So finding out I have a 68 833 4-speed and a 67 Bell housing. Long story short, I want to use this transmission and bell housing, but as you know the transmission has the larger front bearing retainer and the bell housing takes the smaller front bearing retainer. Can I buy a smaller front bearing retainer and swap it onto my 68 833? Thanks for help. Last edited by Mopar_Mike; 06/19/23 05:53 PM. RS23L7 4-Speed

Re: Swapping Front Bearing Retainer - Large to Small [Re: Mopar_Mike] #3152770 06/19/23 06:04 PM 06/19/23 06:04 PM
Joined: May 2019 Posts: 6,241 nowhere S Sniper master
Sniper master S Joined: May 2019 Posts: 6,241 nowhere	Originally Posted by Mopar_Mike So finding out I have a 68 833 4-speed and a 67 Bell housing. Long story short, I want to use this transmission and bell housing, but as you know the transmission has the larger front bearing retainer and the bell housing takes the smaller front bearing retainer. Can I buy a smaller front bearing retainer and swap it onto my 68 833? Thanks for help. There area, at least, three front bearing retainer sizes and two bolt patterns. The smallest retainer will not bolt up to the largest bolt pattern, IIRC. So we need to know exactly what you have. http://www.brewersperformance.com/products.php?cat=82

Re: Swapping Front Bearing Retainer - Large to Small [Re: Mopar_Mike] #3152771 06/19/23 06:18 PM 06/19/23 06:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 29,652 Hamtramck, PA A Alaskan_TA Fluffy Balladeer
Alaskan_TA Fluffy Balladeer A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 29,652 Hamtramck, PA	You would need a different bell housing or have yours machined larger. (as mentioned, the bearing retainers will not swap)

Re: Swapping Front Bearing Retainer - Large to Small [Re: Sniper] #3152773 06/19/23 06:25 PM 06/19/23 06:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,283 Danville, NH M Mopar_Mike OP master
Mopar_Mike OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,283 Danville, NH	C97621 is on the 68 transmission. It is an 18 spline overdrive 4-speed built by Jamie Passon 10 or so years ago. I want to use it in my 67 440 GTX but I would like to keep the factory cast iron bell housing. RS23L7 4-Speed

Re: Swapping Front Bearing Retainer - Large to Small [Re: Mopar_Mike] #3152775 06/19/23 06:27 PM 06/19/23 06:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,283 Danville, NH M Mopar_Mike OP master
Mopar_Mike OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,283 Danville, NH	Thanks all.. RS23L7 4-Speed

Re: Swapping Front Bearing Retainer - Large to Small [Re: Mopar_Mike] #3152783 06/19/23 07:02 PM 06/19/23 07:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,871 Ontario, Canada S Stanton Don't question me!
Stanton Don't question me! S Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,871 Ontario, Canada	Talk to the guys at Brewers, maybe they can suggest a compromise.

Re: Swapping Front Bearing Retainer - Large to Small [Re: Stanton] #3152871 06/19/23 10:32 PM 06/19/23 10:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,350 Omaha Ne T TJP I Live Here
TJP I Live Here T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,350 Omaha Ne	Originally Posted by Stanton Talk to the guys at Brewers, maybe they can suggest a compromise. www.tandmautomotive-omaha.com

Re: Swapping Front Bearing Retainer - Large to Small [Re: Mopar_Mike] #3152907 06/20/23 03:06 AM 06/20/23 03:06 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,161 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,161 Bend,OR USA	NP I think made both size front bearing retainers for both the 23 spline and 18 spline tranny depending on what year the tranny was going into, I THINK I've ran into that years ago doing some work on a customer's 4 speed car swapping the stock bell housing for a scatter shield so he could race it at some tracks in SO CA years ago Another option is to use the adapter ring from the scatter shield so you can use the smaller front bearing retainer in the larger hole bell housings Last edited by Cab_Burge; 06/20/23 03:08 AM. Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Swapping Front Bearing Retainer - Large to Small [Re: Stanton] #3152920 06/20/23 06:25 AM 06/20/23 06:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,391 Abilene, Texas F fastmark master
fastmark master F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,391 Abilene, Texas	If you have the small 307 front bearing then you should be able to buy a retainer that is the smaller size to fit the 307 and the 67 small hole bell housing. Only the 440/426 cases had the big 308 bearing. Check with brewers.

Re: Swapping Front Bearing Retainer - Large to Small [Re: fastmark] #3152923 06/20/23 07:04 AM 06/20/23 07:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 29,652 Hamtramck, PA A Alaskan_TA Fluffy Balladeer
Alaskan_TA Fluffy Balladeer A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 29,652 Hamtramck, PA	Guys? He said; Quote as you know the transmission has the larger front bearing retainer and the bell housing takes the smaller front bearing retainer There is not an adapter to go from large bearing retainer to small.

Re: Swapping Front Bearing Retainer - Large to Small [Re: Alaskan_TA] #3153015 06/20/23 12:01 PM 06/20/23 12:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 354 Stoney Creek, Ontario, Canada 76Beeper enthusiast
76Beeper enthusiast Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 354 Stoney Creek, Ontario, Canada	That's what I did with mine. I too have a 1968 23 spline 4 speed meant to go behind a 383 engine. I'm using it behind my 360 engine. The retainer that came with the 4 speed is too big for my bellhousing. I was going to open up the opening in the bellhousing, but hesitated. I went online and found the correct one thru Brewers.

Re: Swapping Front Bearing Retainer - Large to Small [Re: 76Beeper] #3153060 06/20/23 02:09 PM 06/20/23 02:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 19,396 north of coder moparx "Butt Crack Bob"
moparx "Butt Crack Bob" Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 19,396 north of coder	did you need to change the bearing as well ? i know virtually nothing about 4 speeds. just wanting to learn, so bear with me, please.

Re: Swapping Front Bearing Retainer - Large to Small [Re: moparx] #3153066 06/20/23 02:44 PM 06/20/23 02:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,283 Danville, NH M Mopar_Mike OP master
Mopar_Mike OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,283 Danville, NH	Just emailed Brewers about any possible solutions.. but, if I decided to go with the making the bell housing hole bigger, what would be involved. Could any engine builder/machine shop do it? Is it costly? would I ever be able to use the original smaller retainer transmission again? RS23L7 4-Speed

Re: Swapping Front Bearing Retainer - Large to Small [Re: Mopar_Mike] #3153118 06/20/23 06:24 PM 06/20/23 06:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,005 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,005 U.S.S.A.	Originally Posted by Mopar_Mike Just emailed Brewers about any possible solutions.. but, if I decided to go with the making the bell housing hole bigger, what would be involved. Could any engine builder/machine shop do it? Is it costly? would I ever be able to use the original smaller retainer transmission again? Making the bellhousing hole bigger would require I believe also relocating the the clutch fork pivot over as it is very close the the hole, this may also require a different fork to go with that? I would have a machine shop do it , costly , probably but you got it ... . You would be able to use your other transmission with just a bearing retainer swap or an adapter ring to fill the hole back in. The big block A body uses the same bell, I want run a hemi 4 speed in my dart but didn't want to modify my original bellhousing so after doing some comparing it looks like the 70/up 130 tooth BB alum bellhousing is a copy of the 67 cast iron with a larger bearing retainer hole. The other thing you could do is put the guts of your trans into a small bearing case, it's not very hard to do, though the OD trans went to the 308 front bearing for a reason? running up my post count some more .

Re: Swapping Front Bearing Retainer - Large to Small [Re: moparx] #3153120 06/20/23 06:24 PM 06/20/23 06:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,161 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,161 Bend,OR USA	Originally Posted by moparx did you need to change the bearing as well ? No need to remove the input shaft and change the front bearing, remove the large bearing retainer and install the small one with a new inner seal and gasket Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Swapping Front Bearing Retainer - Large to Small [Re: Cab_Burge] #3153175 06/20/23 08:40 PM 06/20/23 08:40 PM
Joined: May 2019 Posts: 6,241 nowhere S Sniper master
Sniper master S Joined: May 2019 Posts: 6,241 nowhere	Originally Posted by Cab_Burge Originally Posted by moparx did you need to change the bearing as well ? No need to remove the input shaft and change the front bearing, remove the large bearing retainer and install the small one with a new inner seal and gasket I believe that there is no small retainer (4.354" outside diameter) that uses the large bolt pattern (4.16"). I don't know which the OP has, which is why I linked to Brewer's as the dimensions were there for his use.

Re: Swapping Front Bearing Retainer - Large to Small [Re: Sniper] #3153186 06/20/23 09:27 PM 06/20/23 09:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,871 Ontario, Canada S Stanton Don't question me!
Stanton Don't question me! S Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,871 Ontario, Canada	Quote if I decided to go with the making the bell housing hole bigger, what would be involved. You DO NOT want to do that.

Re: Swapping Front Bearing Retainer - Large to Small [Re: Stanton] #3153254 06/21/23 08:09 AM 06/21/23 08:09 AM
Joined: Jun 2014 Posts: 1,322 VA D dragon slayer pro stock
dragon slayer pro stock D Joined: Jun 2014 Posts: 1,322 VA	You have a 68 HEMI transmission. The C97621 is the large diameter 4.805"dia, 308 bearing with 4.16" hole pattern. The bearing and hole pattern are on your transmission so you can't change that without swapping case. Your trying to stick this in a Bell House that need a 4.354 diameter retainer. So messing with a BH is problematic. Your alternative is to get the over drive retainer that has 5.125 dia, 308 bearing and 4.16 hole pattern. Turn it down to 4.354. This would also be pretty close to cutting into the holes of the retainer. This is much easier to do. BUT since your a 18sp, they will also have to put a sleeve on the tube the throwout bearing rides on and bore the diameter out. Lot of work, but I think better then working on BH. Frankly I would look for the 68 BH. I have turned a OD retainer for a 308 23 spline to the large hole 4.805. That was easy and worked. You really may be stuck with changing Case or BH. Last edited by dragon slayer; 06/21/23 08:13 AM.

Re: Swapping Front Bearing Retainer - Large to Small [Re: dragon slayer] #3153271 06/21/23 08:50 AM 06/21/23 08:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,283 Danville, NH M Mopar_Mike OP master
Mopar_Mike OP master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,283 Danville, NH	Originally Posted by dragon slayer You have a 68 HEMI transmission. The C97621 is the large diameter 4.805"dia, 308 bearing with 4.16" hole pattern. The bearing and hole pattern are on your transmission so you can't change that without swapping case. Your trying to stick this in a Bell House that need a 4.354 diameter retainer. So messing with a BH is problematic. Your alternative is to get the over drive retainer that has 5.125 dia, 308 bearing and 4.16 hole pattern. Turn it down to 4.354. This would also be pretty close to cutting into the holes of the retainer. This is much easier to do. BUT since your a 18sp, they will also have to put a sleeve on the tube the throwout bearing rides on and bore the diameter out. Lot of work, but I think better then working on BH. Frankly I would look for the 68 BH. I have turned a OD retainer for a 308 23 spline to the large hole 4.805. That was easy and worked. You really may be stuck with changing Case or BH. Seems like a lot of work and cost to try to modify what I have to work the way I want it to. Brewers also mentioned just switch the bell housing. Since it is the wrong (numbers wise) transmission anyways. Thanks again for everyone's help. Last edited by Mopar_Mike; 06/21/23 11:34 AM. RS23L7 4-Speed

Re: Swapping Front Bearing Retainer - Large to Small [Re: Mopar_Mike] #3153447 06/21/23 10:06 PM 06/21/23 10:06 PM
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 6,562 Downtown Roebuck Ont Twostick Still wishing...
Twostick Still wishing... Joined: May 2003 Posts: 6,562 Downtown Roebuck Ont	Is there enough meat on an 18 spline retainer to turn it down to the size your bellhousing is? As you said, your trans isn't the "correct" one anyway so if you can source a compatible bellhousing, that's probably the easy button solution provided it's compatible with your clutch and flywheel. Most of the car show "experts" will be too busy yammering on about their uncle's factory 383 hemi 62 Valiant to notice anyway. Kevin

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