Re: Late model "metric" wheels on an old Mopar ??
[Re: Stanton]
#3106781
12/30/22 08:39 PM
12/30/22 08:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,133
A Red State
SNK-EYZ
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I Live Here
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Old Mopars are 5 on 4-1/2 aka 5 on 114.3 mm.
The new stuff is 5 on 115 mm, close enough to force on, but I wouldn't co it.
You're forcing the wheel stud to go sideways and it isn't designed for that load.
Wheel offset is another issue, late model stuff is a very positive offset (wheel center is pushed out in the barrel) so they're really deep on the backside.
Old 15x7's have a 4.25 backspacing so the center is slightly towards the front, but nothing close to what late model wheels are.
Late models also use a different hub bearing setup and don't have the protruding dust cap.
The dust cap on old cars usually sticks out to far to use the center caps using late model factory style wheels.
Kayse can't keep up at all now. lol
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Re: Late model "metric" wheels on an old Mopar ??
[Re: SNK-EYZ]
#3106786
12/30/22 08:58 PM
12/30/22 08:58 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,872
Ontario, Canada
Stanton
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Don't question me!
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OP
Don't question me!
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Posts: 8,872
Ontario, Canada
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Old Mopars are 5 on 4-1/2 aka 5 on 114.3 mm.
The new stuff is 5 on 115 mm, close enough to force on, but I wouldn't co it.
You're forcing the wheel stud to go sideways and it isn't designed for that load.
Wheel offset is another issue, late model stuff is a very positive offset (wheel center is pushed out in the barrel) so they're really deep on the backside.
Old 15x7's have a 4.25 backspacing so the center is slightly towards the front, but nothing close to what late model wheels are.
Late models also use a different hub bearing setup and don't have the protruding dust cap.
The dust cap on old cars usually sticks out to far to use the center caps using late model factory style wheels. None of these issues are insurmountable. I stand corrected on the Mopar bolt pattern BUT the current Ford bolt pattern is 114.3 - which is bang on 4-1/2" Wheel offset ... maybe not an ideal solution but thicker longer studs and wheel spacers solve that one as well as addressing the dust cap issue. The rear can also be resolved by using a wider rear end. Not exactly a cheap solution but if you're having a rear end built adding a couple inches would probably be no additional cost.
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Re: Late model "metric" wheels on an old Mopar ??
[Re: Stanton]
#3106797
12/30/22 09:56 PM
12/30/22 09:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,133
A Red State
SNK-EYZ
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I Live Here
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Mopars and Fords have a different center hub diameter, what makes a wheel hub centric.
It centers the wheel on the hub so you're not relying on the studs to center it.
IIRC Mopars are 2.75 and Fords are smaller about 2.6 roughly.
It means that the Ford wheels won't seat on the hubs all the way ( factory Ford wheel won't fit in a Mopar).
Kayse can't keep up at all now. lol
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Re: Late model "metric" wheels on an old Mopar ??
[Re: SNK-EYZ]
#3106829
12/30/22 11:51 PM
12/30/22 11:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,872
Ontario, Canada
Stanton
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Don't question me!
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OP
Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,872
Ontario, Canada
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Mopars and Fords have a different center hub diameter, what makes a wheel hub centric.
It centers the wheel on the hub so you're not relying on the studs to center it.
IIRC Mopars are 2.75 and Fords are smaller about 2.6 roughly.
It means that the Ford wheels won't seat on the hubs all the way ( factory Ford wheel won't fit in a Mopar). How many aftermarket wheel manufacturers ask what center bore you need when ordering wheels?!? How many millions of cars are running around relying on the tapered lug nuts to center the wheels? My mention of Ford wheels was only to make the point that “late model” wheels still share the same bolt pattern as our old mopes.
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Re: Late model "metric" wheels on an old Mopar ??
[Re: Stanton]
#3106835
12/31/22 12:39 AM
12/31/22 12:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,357
Omaha Ne
TJP
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I Live Here
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Mopars and Fords have a different center hub diameter, what makes a wheel hub centric.
It centers the wheel on the hub so you're not relying on the studs to center it.
IIRC Mopars are 2.75 and Fords are smaller about 2.6 roughly.
It means that the Ford wheels won't seat on the hubs all the way ( factory Ford wheel won't fit in a Mopar). How many aftermarket wheel manufacturers ask what center bore you need when ordering wheels?!? How many millions of cars are running around relying on the tapered lug nuts to center the wheels? My mention of Ford wheels was only to make the point that “late model” wheels still share the same bolt pattern as our old mopes. I scored a pair of "Ford" chrome wheels years ago at JC penney's for CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP!!!! Took them to a machine shop and had them open up the centers to fit my 64 Polara. COOL!!!! within 300 miles the rims were cracking as the centering rib I had them cut out was also a stiffening device. 
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Re: Late model "metric" wheels on an old Mopar ??
[Re: Stanton]
#3106864
12/31/22 04:55 AM
12/31/22 04:55 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,133
A Red State
SNK-EYZ
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 10,133
A Red State
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Mopars and Fords have a different center hub diameter, what makes a wheel hub centric.
It centers the wheel on the hub so you're not relying on the studs to center it.
IIRC Mopars are 2.75 and Fords are smaller about 2.6 roughly.
It means that the Ford wheels won't seat on the hubs all the way ( factory Ford wheel won't fit in a Mopar). How many aftermarket wheel manufacturers ask what center bore you need when ordering wheels?!? How many millions of cars are running around relying on the tapered lug nuts to center the wheels? My mention of Ford wheels was only to make the point that “late model” wheels still share the same bolt pattern as our old mopes. They may share the same bolt pattern, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will bolt on and fit, which is why I posted the info to clarify that there will be problems if someone tries to bolt them on. Back in the 80's I was the store manager of a BF Goodrich tire store where we specialized is custom wheels. What worked on cars back then is a different thing from modern wheels and tires since everything has an extremely short sidewall now. The taller sidewall absorbed a lot of potential vibration problems back then, short sidewalls won't do that. Modern aftermarket wheel use hub centering rings to keep the wheel true on the hub. A custom wheel dealer that's any good knows that. These are simply the facts, I'm simply trying to make people aware of them. 
Kayse can't keep up at all now. lol
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Re: Late model "metric" wheels on an old Mopar ??
[Re: Stanton]
#3106875
12/31/22 07:34 AM
12/31/22 07:34 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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master
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Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
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I like the look of some of the wheels that are coming on the late models such as the Chargers and Challengers. Just wondering what the issues might be mounting them one older Mopar with 4-1/2" bolt spacing. Would appreciate first-hand knowledge. Seems to me Mopar made 114.3mm bolt spacing for a reason !! Dunno if newer Mopars are really diff bolt pattern BUT, 4 1/2” inches ARE 114.3 mm.
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Late model "metric" wheels on an old Mopar ??
[Re: NachoRT74]
#3106890
12/31/22 09:06 AM
12/31/22 09:06 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,921
new berlin wisconsin
Mr T2U
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master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,921
new berlin wisconsin
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late model mustangs use 114.3 bolt pattern.
i have seen the older torque thrust styled wheels from them installed on older mopars.
perception is 90% of reality
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Re: Late model "metric" wheels on an old Mopar ??
[Re: Stanton]
#3106928
12/31/22 12:15 PM
12/31/22 12:15 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,250
nowhere
Sniper
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master
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nowhere
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Mopars and Fords have a different center hub diameter, what makes a wheel hub centric.
It centers the wheel on the hub so you're not relying on the studs to center it.
IIRC Mopars are 2.75 and Fords are smaller about 2.6 roughly.
It means that the Ford wheels won't seat on the hubs all the way ( factory Ford wheel won't fit in a Mopar). How many aftermarket wheel manufacturers ask what center bore you need when ordering wheels?!? How many millions of cars are running around relying on the tapered lug nuts to center the wheels? My mention of Ford wheels was only to make the point that “late model” wheels still share the same bolt pattern as our old mopes. Irrelevant since the OP is asking about OEM rims.
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Re: Late model "metric" wheels on an old Mopar ??
[Re: Sniper]
#3106960
12/31/22 02:24 PM
12/31/22 02:24 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,405
north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,405
north of coder
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the hub register diameter on our toys is 2.810. the wheel register inside diameter is 2.815-2.820. as to the new stuff, i do not know. 
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Re: Late model "metric" wheels on an old Mopar ??
[Re: SNK-EYZ]
#3106967
12/31/22 02:32 PM
12/31/22 02:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,357
Omaha Ne
TJP
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I Live Here
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Omaha Ne
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They may share the same bolt pattern, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will bolt on and fit, which is why I posted the info to clarify that there will be problems if someone tries to bolt them on. Back in the 80's I was the store manager of a BF Goodrich tire store where we specialized is custom wheels. What worked on cars back then is a different thing from modern wheels and tires since everything has an extremely short sidewall now. The taller sidewall absorbed a lot of potential vibration problems back then, short sidewalls won't do that. Modern aftermarket wheel use hub centering rings to keep the wheel true on the hub. A custom wheel dealer that's any good knows that. These are simply the facts, I'm simply trying to make people aware of them. valid points IMO  Sometimes people will do as they want and experience the consequences later. Reminds me of my brother in law whose buddy was helping him reassemble a New failed motor ( LONG STORY, short version) I looked at the rod bearings and told him the rods needed to be resized as they were obviously egg shaped. His buddy, local dirt track racer said we run em' like this all the time. I even offered to pay for the resizing. NOPE, friend says they're good we're putting it together. He made almost 2 laps before it spun 3 bearings. He wound up selling the entire car for pennies on the $. I later thought that I should've asked his buddy how many races have you finished? , and then how many have you won? 
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Re: Late model "metric" wheels on an old Mopar ??
[Re: Stanton]
#3106995
12/31/22 03:29 PM
12/31/22 03:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
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Kalispell Mt.
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I ran some factory 17" 2007 dodge charger 5 spoke aluminum wheels on my 68 cuda I converted to large bolt pattern. The rear bolted on and fit perfectly because I used an early B body rear end the offset was just right. The front took a little more creativity, the large bolt pattern discs already set the wheels out further but I still had to run I think a 1/4 spacer. I also had to machine a taper onto the end of the hub to get it to fit inside the wheel center and I installed the grease caps after installing the wheels and it worked great, I had it as high as 140 MPH with no issues. I think also on the front I had to install slightly longer studs if I remember right but it was 16 years ago I did all this so it's a little fuzzy.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Late model "metric" wheels on an old Mopar ??
[Re: Mr T2U]
#3107054
12/31/22 07:19 PM
12/31/22 07:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,165
Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl
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Plymouth, MI
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late model mustangs use 114.3 bolt pattern.
i have seen the older torque thrust styled wheels from them installed on older mopars. I did that with my '68 300, it required wheel spacers because of the wheel offset on a modern wheel compared to older wheels. The lug pattern matched no problem though.
'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
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Re: Late model "metric" wheels on an old Mopar ??
[Re: Blusmbl]
#3107072
12/31/22 08:34 PM
12/31/22 08:34 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,921
new berlin wisconsin
Mr T2U
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new berlin wisconsin
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this swap might have some MINOR problems on old mopars.. nothing over complicated.
the bolt circle is the same. Ford at 114.3MM and Mopar at 4.5" or exactly the same at 114.3
the Ford center hubs are 73.1MM and a Mopar wheel at 2.81" or 71.3MM. a difference of 1.8MM. a SMALL spacer MIGHT be required. road wheels are lug centric so maybe not. user should make this decision.
the lug seats are conical so they use the same lug nuts
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as posted the late Ford wheels have a more of negative offset, usually around 30-40MM or about 1 1/2" depending on what model they were originally designed for, so a spacer will probably be needed..
Last edited by Mr T2U; 12/31/22 08:41 PM.
perception is 90% of reality
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