Water Wetter opinions ?????
#2842893
11/07/20 09:23 AM
11/07/20 09:23 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,435 It's a dry heat
gtx6970
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My new toy went out last night for the 1st cruise under my ownership. 1966 Satellite hemi auto 3.54 dana
And I feel the car runs a little warmer than I would prefer. right at half way up the stock gauge on the interstate. But once in stop and go traffic it warmed up a little more then I would prefer,. it,,went nearly to the top of the gauge. and spit out some coolant once parked . The ride back home on the interstate it remained in the center of the gauge the entire drive. That I think I can live with .
I have to find out what thermostat is in it . Car is a street hemi, auto, approx. a 18" fixed blade fan , stock radiator and shroud. the OE rad had a new 3 row core done when the car was done. But has only had maybe 1000 miles on it in 15 plus years. I don't know yet if the block is bored or not. SO I need to do some digging. before getting to radical. BUT, ,,,,,
My questions is, has anyone used the stuff called water wetter , results good or bad . If I can cool it off maybe 20 degrees I would feel much better . The weather last nite was nice upper 80s for the drive up and maybe lower 80s for the drive home
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: gtx6970]
#2842903
11/07/20 09:56 AM
11/07/20 09:56 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,000 Long Island, NY
shakerjoe
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Long Island, NY
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I used it in the past with my 440-6 when it had a aggressive solid cam, 2” hooker super comp headers, 915 heads, switching between 160 and 180 t stat and mechanical carbs, 3500 TC. to be honest Bill, I don’t think it made a difference. When moving temp would be around 185-190, when at a light 200 and a little higher(on a mechanical gauge). I think that was due to the sum of the parts. Now after rebuilding/restoring, 9.5 compression, stock converter, stock carbs, exhaust manifolds, 180 stat, 906 heads, on the rally cluster temp gauge on a hot day it hangs right at the little line at the edge of the C range, barely breaks a sweat...I sometimes wonder if it’s running too cool. I don’t think the WW did anything personally.
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: gtx6970]
#2842931
11/07/20 11:22 AM
11/07/20 11:22 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,394 Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
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Pikes Peak Country
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What pulleys are on it? Moving water through the system too fast may not allow enough transfer time. Radiator cap pressure rating and is it good? Higher pressure increases the boiling point.
Last edited by TC@HP2; 11/07/20 11:25 AM.
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: gtx6970]
#2842966
11/07/20 12:45 PM
11/07/20 12:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,037 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
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Posts: 31,037
Oregon
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My new toy went out last night for the 1st cruise under my ownership. 1966 Satellite hemi auto 3.54 dana
And I feel the car runs a little warmer than I would prefer. right at half way up the stock gauge on the interstate. But once in stop and go traffic it warmed up a little more then I would prefer,. it,,went nearly to the top of the gauge. and spit out some coolant once parked . The ride back home on the interstate it remained in the center of the gauge the entire drive. That I think I can live with .
I have to find out what thermostat is in it . Car is a street hemi, auto, approx. a 18" fixed blade fan , stock radiator and shroud. the OE rad had a new 3 row core done when the car was done. But has only had maybe 1000 miles on it in 15 plus years. I don't know yet if the block is bored or not. SO I need to do some digging. before getting to radical. BUT, ,,,,,
My questions is, has anyone used the stuff called water wetter , results good or bad . If I can cool it off maybe 20 degrees I would feel much better . The weather last nite was nice upper 80s for the drive up and maybe lower 80s for the drive home If it cools fine on the freeway but not at low speed then it is probably an airflow issue. Might need a fan with more blades or perhaps the position of the fan inside the shroud needs to be fixed. Also a good idea to verify that the radiator is in good shape. If the car has been sitting a lot then the radiator core could have some plugged up passages. Cars that sit a lot develop lots of little problems like that.
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: gtx6970]
#2842972
11/07/20 12:50 PM
11/07/20 12:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,372 Omaha Ne
TJP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Omaha Ne
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SNAKE OIL IMO. Your gauge readings may or may not be accurate. My suggested approach to temperature related issues. Step # 1 buy a thermocouple and digital meter. Make sure to get a T/C that matches the meter as there are different types that will skew your readings. The most common are type K or J. Many of the newer DVM's (digital volt meter) have a plug in for T/C's> they can be had relatively inexpensively as can the T/C probes Step #2 Buy a T/C probe with an .125 OD SS sheath ( enclosure) around it. Buy an extension lead that is long enough to put the meter in the car. Step #3 Install the TC probe as close as possible to the thermostat. Step 4# Put the meter in the car. Take passenger along to record the ACTUAL temperatures under various conditions. You may be surprised to see the things that affect the temps such as a semi in front of you, climbing a slight grade etc. Example: with a borderline radiator, Going north on I-29 has a tendency to slowly raise temps, turning around and going south lowers them. This typically indicates an undersized, partially blocked, or inefficient radiator core. Sometimes turning the heater on will help as it adds a small amount of cooling to the system. The above efforts will confirm or invalidate your suspected problem and tell you exactly what the temps are and when. Once you have that information , you will then know how to approach resolving the issue if there is one
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: gtx6970]
#2843035
11/07/20 02:09 PM
11/07/20 02:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,861 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
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Pattison Texas
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Whats the initial timing ?
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: CSK]
#2843040
11/07/20 02:14 PM
11/07/20 02:14 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,435 It's a dry heat
gtx6970
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Whats the initial timing ? Will ck timing later.this afternoon
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: DusterKid]
#2843159
11/07/20 06:51 PM
11/07/20 06:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 338 Montreal Quebec
STROKIE
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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Posts: 338
Montreal Quebec
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I used a bottle of in it my race cars. I mainly use it since I have to run straight water and it helps keeps the waterpump lube. I think it might've made a 5-10 degree change at the most at the track, but I have no street experience with it. I use Waterwetter in my 451 ci 11.1 c.r. with 22 inches rad with shrould , never had overheating problems... The trick is more use of watter = less heat in the engine. antifreeze is not the best to cool engine. during summer you don't need antifreze...
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: STROKIE]
#2843177
11/07/20 07:17 PM
11/07/20 07:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,435 It's a dry heat
gtx6970
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Rubbing alcohol ????
Thanks so far.
What I know of the power train so far is its 426 Hemi compression is in the 11-11.5 range . Steel block and heads , stock exhaust , stock dual point dist. ( dont know base or advanced specs timing yet ) Stock water pump and hsg ( know idea of impeller blade count ) Pulleys are stock Mopar stuff and diam is I believe pretty close to OE Trans is also stock with a mild street build with approx a 3000 / 3500 stall conv . it has the stock console mounted tach but I seriously doubt its accurate based on driving it so far
Its my understanding the purpose of WW or any wetting agent is to take the surface tension off of the water. ( think eliminating the bubbles in a pot of water on the stove ) Thus allowing the water to cover more of the surface area inside the cooling passages.
I have no problem running straight water as long as said WW agent helps control rust from forming inside the engine and allows some kind of lube for the water pump even if its minimal
Temps out here RARELY get below freezing . At most maybe a few times a year . IF they do the car will be in the garage anyway so its not a problem . During summer months when its 100 Plus the car will hibernate . Black car, no A/C and temps of 110 ( or more ) is not a good mix .
I plan to reach out to the guy who built the engine one day next week sometime and see if he remembers details of the build. standard bore or not , type of water pump , thermostat temp range , etc etc .
When I shut it off last nite , it spit a little coolant out the overflow and was gurgling slightly. It wasn't scorching hot per say ,,,,,,but it was warmer than I would really prefer .
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: gtx6970]
#2843192
11/07/20 07:43 PM
11/07/20 07:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,085 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
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Posts: 12,085
Benton, IL.
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Do I understand that you are making decisions based on the stock gauge with an unknown source sender? May I suggest that you not do anything until you actually know what temps you are working with?
As to the belching of coolant when shut off, big blocks (and Hemis) have always heat soaked. Either put an overflow bottle on it or leave the coolant down an inch or so in the radiator. In my humble opinion, that is not indicative of anything other than it's a big block Mopar.
At any rate, if you want to throw $10 or so at the Water Wetter, go ahead. But that in not gonna fix any real problems.
Get an accurate temp gauge and sender to determine if you actually have a problem and when. Then, remember this good rule of thumb; over temp at hiway speed is typically a water flow problem while over temp at slow road speed is typically an air flow problem. It is also a good idea to look at the water pump housing bypass hole and size it down if excessive. It allows hot engine water right back into the incoming cool water.
Master, again and still
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2843213
11/07/20 08:22 PM
11/07/20 08:22 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,435 It's a dry heat
gtx6970
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Do I understand that you are making decisions based on the stock gauge with an unknown source sender?
Yes ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and NO its based partly on 25 plus years as a service tech. The car was warmer than normal 180- 200 degree range, Im sure of that. At normal temps I can hold the upper rad hose , last nite I couldnt for more than a few seconds at most . At normal temps the system does not gurgle/ feel likes its boiling inside the hose So Actual live temps I dont know. Just yet. I will pick up a laser temp gun on monday to ck temps at various locations underhood The car has sat for the most part the past 15 plus year or more. Its had less than 1000 miles put on it since completed in 2004 . So I will drain/flush coolant , ck / replace the thermostat and refill with with distilled water with maybe a little bit of coolant for WP lubricity if nothing else the temp sender was nos mopar when installed, the gauge is the original I believe. The radiator was re-cored with a new 3 row core at the same time. So I have serious doubts its a problem, BUT I plan to ck it anyway
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: gtx6970]
#2843263
11/07/20 09:52 PM
11/07/20 09:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468 So Cal
autoxcuda
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Anti Freeze is what it's called. It prevents freezing and also has anti rust and lubricant in it. You'll find lots of car guys were you live now just run distilled water and an additive or even old water pump lubricant. It's not because they are too cheap to by Anti Freeze. Water cools better than Anti-Freeze. Here in So Cal, I run Justice Brothers Super Radiator Cooler and Reverse Osmosis (RO) water in my Barracuda for the last 9 years. I also put in Justice Brothers Cooling System Protectant for added anti rust and electrolysis protection. Very complete test of coolant additives: http://www.turbomagazine.com/features/0703_turp_cooling_system_additives/viewall.html"Justice Brothers' Radiator Cooler gave us the lowest temperature during our testing - 177 F - and provided the lowest average temperatures overall when mixed with water alone." A good radiator additive does a lot more than just acting as a wetting agent. It should also provide anti-corrosion, anti-cavitation, electrolysis resistance, anti acid, lubrication, SCA's (Supplemental Coolant Additives), added thermal conduction... They should remove heat better than antifreeze. Boiling in a pressurized system of water alone is 257 degrees. The object is to remove heat before going into a boiling situation. Here's pictures of the inside of my Radiator from 2016, 5 years after it was installed. Just before a drain and fill.
Last edited by autoxcuda; 11/07/20 10:04 PM.
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: GregY]
#2843295
11/07/20 10:55 PM
11/07/20 10:55 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684 W. Kentucky
justinp61
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I Live Here
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W. Kentucky
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My experience is that water wetter had no effect on my hot running 71 Charger/440/22-inch radiator. In my case, an aluminum radiator was the answer.
Greg Same here on my 340 Dart.
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: gtx6970]
#2843306
11/07/20 11:25 PM
11/07/20 11:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468 So Cal
autoxcuda
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Thanks all, But an aluminum radiator is 100% out of the question on this car .
I have some ideas and things to try , weather permitting will get something done tomorrow Report back what you find. Being the car it is, they're typically not driven 2-3 times a week. And if came from the snow belt, it was parked all winter. Could have sediment and gunk in it. Might want to try and good old fashioned power flush. If you already haven't.
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: autoxcuda]
#2843315
11/07/20 11:43 PM
11/07/20 11:43 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,435 It's a dry heat
gtx6970
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Thanks all, But an aluminum radiator is 100% out of the question on this car .
I have some ideas and things to try , weather permitting will get something done tomorrow Report back what you find. Being the car it is, they're typically not driven 2-3 times a week. And if came from the snow belt, it was parked all winter. Could have sediment and gunk in it. Might want to try and good old fashioned power flush. If you already haven't. Right now, I think thats my starting plan of attack . Open it up, drain and flush the system completely , including pulling the drains in the side of the block, ck t-stat operation / might go ahead and install a new one , then refill with mostly water.. I ckd earlier and I think the fan diameter could be a little bigger . As it has approx 1.5" clearance between the fan blades on each side and the edge of the shroud. So if my changes do nothing I make look for a larger diam fixed blade fan as a next step ( my current fan is a 7 blade fixed fan btw ) EDIT, just measured------. fan shroud opening is a click over 20" , fan blade is a click over 17" . measuring side to side
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: 360view]
#2843367
11/08/20 08:04 AM
11/08/20 08:04 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,435 It's a dry heat
gtx6970
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Im reasonably sure the heater core is original, raising pressure is IMO a gamble, One Im not sure Im willing to take . At least not until all else has been exhausted
But, yes some kind of overflow bottle is most definitely in its future . Did some online reviews last nite and it seems this stuff called purple ice is a better option
here is where I think I will try 1st.
Drain and flush the entire system, refill with distilled water .Will ck thermostat operation and temp rating ( potentially replace it it nothing else but to change temp ,,,1st up switch to maybe a 180 ) and add a bottle of this Ice stuff .
Ck for cold spots in the rad with a temp gun at same time . Then see if or where i need to go from there .
Anyone know if a slightly larger diam fan blade is avail for a non fan clutch mounting ?
EDIT, From reading reviews the overwhelming comment Ive found so far for ANY of these wetter additives is they seem to have a very minimal effect if any to a mixture with coolant. But seem to help anywhere from 5 to sometimes 20 degrees drop if using straight distilled water
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: gtx6970]
#2843397
11/08/20 10:46 AM
11/08/20 10:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,719 North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,719
North Dakota
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I always try the simple things.
1) Fan belt tight? 2) Air side of the radiator clean? 3) Lower radiator hose firm? 4) Thermostat functional?
Then you can get to the more drastic measures like pulling the radiator and internally cleaning it. Face it, if this is a stock engine, Chrysler built thousands of them without heating problems.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2843496
11/08/20 02:09 PM
11/08/20 02:09 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,435 It's a dry heat
gtx6970
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I always try the simple things.
1) Fan belt tight? 2) Air side of the radiator clean? 3) Lower radiator hose firm? 4) Thermostat functional?
Then you can get to the more drastic measures like pulling the radiator and internally cleaning it. Face it, if this is a stock engine, Chrysler built thousands of them without heating problems. Agreed, My primary question was if the water wetter additive even worth the effort at all. And from my digging around , its worth a try. Provided I use water only. Im in Southern AZ so freezing temps will never be an issue I plan to pull the Tstat later today and see what it has installed . then decide to stove top hot water ck it or just replace it . I have a temp gun and once its flushed and refilled will ck for cool spots in the radiator Like I said, the car never overheated persay. Just a tad warmer than I would prefer it be . I will ck engine temps with the gun to see at what temps the gauge is operating at in various postions. And will ck ignition timing while I have the hood up. I do plan to ck and see about putting a spring in the lower hose while its drained / opened up if I can find one today. I talked to the previous owner last nite and he couldn't remember if its standard bore or not. I do know it had 12.5 -1 pistons but they were cut down and he feels its probably still in the 11- 11.5 range . THAT might something I have to deal with at a later date . Primarily because pump gas friendly it is not
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: 360view]
#2843891
11/09/20 10:24 AM
11/09/20 10:24 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,085 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
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Posts: 12,085
Benton, IL.
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Thermostats in general have been going to $hit the last few years. Most are a real crap shoot as to whether they will last past getting wet the first time. I had used the Mr Gasket high flow thermostats for years, they clearly flowed more. But the last few I have installed have been junk.
I now use the Stant Superstats. The opening is on the small size in my opinion so I add some holes to them to help with flow, but I haven't had any real problems with them............so far.
Master, again and still
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#2843965
11/09/20 12:40 PM
11/09/20 12:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,583 SE Pa.
LimeliteAero
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Is the fixed fan 4 blade?, 5 blade? 7 blade?....if it's a 4 I'd switch to a 5 minimum or 7 FIXED, no clutch...
The blade should reside at least 50 to 75% inside the shroud for maximum pull
No mention if you've flushed the coolant and replaced?...personally I prefer Zerex G-05 with Redline water wetter, I've found the Redline WW good for up to 10 degrees less in my wingcar which runs "very warm" engine wise and underhood temp wise due to the nosecone's small opening... the Zerex is slightly clear in color and doesn't stain like the standard green juice, and Zerex is an IAT not an OAT (orange death Dexcool) coolant, Zerex is about all I run in the DD and toys, if your going to run Zerex, flush the system completely/thoroughly ....
Mike I'm completely in agreement with Mike! I used the Zerex G-05 with WW in my 68 R/T that was a hot runner from the day I started it. I can recall one of the previous owneres talking about how hot it ran. It definitely had positive results. easy first step Bill! Good Luck!!
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: LimeliteAero]
#2844051
11/09/20 03:02 PM
11/09/20 03:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,441 So Cal
Sinitro
master
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master
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So Cal
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IMHO... I don't like using any additive... Putting them into the cooling system in our old engine blocks sometimes depending upon certain chemicals can loosen up some crud which can block the radiator runners.. Cooling our older built Mopar engines is not rocket science simply takes understanding the basics about radiators, thermostadts, fans, shrouds and engine specs like jetting and timing. Just my $0.02...
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: Sinitro]
#2844174
11/09/20 05:54 PM
11/09/20 05:54 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,435 It's a dry heat
gtx6970
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Wife and I took it out for a drive last nite, without doing anything to it before hand except ck coolant level, And it was approx 1" above the coolant tubes,,,, So we took off. As I wanted to try again before doing anything to it
Drive into town , Non expressway but still run approx 50 mph for almost 12-13 miles. Per the gauge car never got to half way up the gauge, Just barely under that. Made a couple stops with maybe lasting 10-15 minutes heat soaks. Fired right back up , Gauge was nearly 3/4 the way up but cooled right back down the below half. Did this 3 times with same results.
On the way home right away it crept back up to 3/4 way up the gauge and stayed there all the way home ( again a little over 12 miles ,,,give or take )
Once home took temp gun and said temp right at thermostat hsg was about 215 or so with gauge still showing right about 3/4 ,,,maybe just under that. Inside the rad top is spotless so I have my doubts its a radiator issue. It was recored the time the car was done.,,,,, And driven very little
So, with that ,,,, Something tells me I have a Tstat acting up
I live in an area where antifreeze is really not needed. SO,,,,,,,I am going to drain, flush it even remove the block drain plugs as well and refill with distilled water , Refill with an additive thrown in for good measure replace the thermostat with a new one. and go from there .
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: gtx6970]
#2844328
11/10/20 12:16 AM
11/10/20 12:16 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468 So Cal
autoxcuda
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So Cal
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Wife and I took it out for a drive last nite, without doing anything to it before hand except ck coolant level, And it was approx 1" above the coolant tubes,,,, So we took off. As I wanted to try again before doing anything to it
Drive into town , Non expressway but still run approx 50 mph for almost 12-13 miles. Per the gauge car never got to half way up the gauge, Just barely under that. Made a couple stops with maybe lasting 10-15 minutes heat soaks. Fired right back up , Gauge was nearly 3/4 the way up but cooled right back down the below half. Did this 3 times with same results.
On the way home right away it crept back up to 3/4 way up the gauge and stayed there all the way home ( again a little over 12 miles ,,,give or take )
Once home took temp gun and said temp right at thermostat hsg was about 215 or so with gauge still showing right about 3/4 ,,,maybe just under that. Inside the rad top is spotless so I have my doubts its a radiator issue. It was recored the time the car was done.,,,,, And driven very little
So, with that ,,,, Something tells me I have a Tstat acting up
I live in an area where antifreeze is really not needed. SO,,,,,,,I am going to drain, flush it even remove the block drain plugs as well and refill with distilled water , Refill with an additive thrown in for good measure replace the thermostat with a new one. and go from there . Sounds like a plan You need some sort of rust preventive and lubricants.
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: AndyF]
#2844553
11/10/20 03:11 PM
11/10/20 03:11 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,435 It's a dry heat
gtx6970
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That should work for you. Distilled water and one of those bottles and see how it works. Be interesting to see what you find when you pull the thermostat. Did you check to see if your thermostat seems to be working properly now? Top hose should be cool until the thermostat opens and there shouldn't be flow in the radiator. So fairly easy test to run. No signs of coolant flow looking in the top of the radiator on a cold start . Ive ordered a couple different thermostats to test out, in both temp ranges and style .
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: 360view]
#2844574
11/10/20 04:17 PM
11/10/20 04:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,435 It's a dry heat
gtx6970
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While waiting for the thermostats to arrive, maybe remove the stock temperature sensor and submerge it in boiling water with its wiring still connected in order to see where 211 degrees is on the needle of the original dash gauge? thanks, i will have to try this
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: RJS]
#2845315
11/12/20 01:28 PM
11/12/20 01:28 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,435 It's a dry heat
gtx6970
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I would bet that spring helps you fix this Bill. Ron Thanks Ron, I'm trying to cover ALL the bases / ideas at one time. So odds are I may never know EXACTLY what fixes it. I just want to cool it off a little bit and not have to worry about it . I plan to drive this car A LOT ,,,,unless of course its 110 degrees out. Then it will hibernate. LOL
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: AndyF]
#2845345
11/12/20 02:02 PM
11/12/20 02:02 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,435 It's a dry heat
gtx6970
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If you could overdrive the water pump rather than underdrive it then you'll be better off for the way you drive the car. Hemi engines were set up for high rpm but if the car isn't going to be raced then overdriving the water pump is a good idea. I'll see what happens to it after my changes . If it still runs warm will look at changing pulleys , or maybe go to a higher flow pump
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: gtx6970]
#2845434
11/12/20 04:33 PM
11/12/20 04:33 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,861 Pattison Texas
CSK
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Pattison Texas
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If you could overdrive the water pump rather than underdrive it then you'll be better off for the way you drive the car. Hemi engines were set up for high rpm but if the car isn't going to be raced then overdriving the water pump is a good idea. I'll see what happens to it after my changes . If it still runs warm will look at changing pulleys , or maybe go to a higher flow pump Its more about the fan RPM at low speeds than water flow.
Last edited by csk; 11/12/20 04:33 PM.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: gtx6970]
#2846379
11/15/20 12:58 AM
11/15/20 12:58 AM
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Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 288 NW Illinois
MoonshineMattK
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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Posts: 288
NW Illinois
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While waiting for the thermostats to arrive, maybe remove the stock temperature sensor and submerge it in boiling water with its wiring still connected in order to see where 211 degrees is on the needle of the original dash gauge? thanks, i will have to try this Can also check the new and old thermostats this way
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: MoonshineMattK]
#2846543
11/15/20 12:49 PM
11/15/20 12:49 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,707 central il.
second 70
top fuel
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top fuel
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Posts: 1,707
central il.
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While waiting for the thermostats to arrive, maybe remove the stock temperature sensor and submerge it in boiling water with its wiring still connected in order to see where 211 degrees is on the needle of the original dash gauge? thanks, i will have to try this Can also check the new and old thermostats this way I put my new stat in pot of water with baking thermometer and checked the real temp it opened then I installed it in the engine and left radiator cap off. Warmed up engine and watched radiator and when thermostat opened checked gauge and knew what the real temp was and where it read on the gauge.
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: gtx6970]
#2849069
11/20/20 01:43 PM
11/20/20 01:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,787 A collage of whims
topside
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I used a smaller pulley from a Poly 318 to speed up the pump & pan on a later RB; same bolt pattern, depth is the trick. Blade pitch matters on aircraft prop engines & watercraft, not sure what options exist for cooling fans.
Radiator fins aren't plugged with paint/dirt/whatever, are they ?
Last edited by topside; 11/20/20 01:45 PM. Reason: info
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: gtx6970]
#2849130
11/20/20 03:19 PM
11/20/20 03:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,861 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
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Pattison Texas
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Flex a lite has a 6 blade 19", also a 18" 7 blade HD fan, summit race & 4818 Flexalite worked great on my 512 ac street car, I now have dual electric, Flex-a-lite 101571 - Flex-A-Lite 7-Blade Fans
Fan, Flex-Type, 7-Blade, Clockwise, 18.25 in. Diameter, Stainless Steel Blades/Steel Hub, Universal, Each
Part Number: FLX-4818 it moves a lot of air, That said I run the smaller water pump pulley, my car has ac
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: 360view]
#2849206
11/20/20 07:22 PM
11/20/20 07:22 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,435 It's a dry heat
gtx6970
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Since you went from 50/50 coolant mix to nearly straight water with chemical wetter, that has an effect like having a 30% gpm pump boost, due to the greater thermal capacity of straight water.
To me that indicates the system is “airflow limited” not liquid & pump side limited.
I would now boost airflow somehow to further test.
Start by blowing more air on the parked stationary vehicle with a large electric floor fan or leaf blower.
If this added boost of airflow lowers the liquid temperature down to the 180 degree setting of the thermostat, then try a larger diameter fan, or a same diameter fan with more blades and/or pitch.
My thoughts as well. The thing is it runs about same place on the gauge driving down the road at 55 mph I cant get the idea out of my head that the fan blade is to small for the shroud opening. and/or not enough blade pitch The cars Ive had in the past you could really feel suction in front of the radiator at idle . This one IMO doesnt pull like I think it should/could. And it doesnt really help much when i bring it up off idle Also, base timing was almost 18-19 degrees , I bumped that down to about 15 to see if it had any effect , So far nuttin
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: gtx6970]
#2849227
11/20/20 08:05 PM
11/20/20 08:05 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,861 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,861
Pattison Texas
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Since you went from 50/50 coolant mix to nearly straight water with chemical wetter, that has an effect like having a 30% gpm pump boost, due to the greater thermal capacity of straight water.
To me that indicates the system is “airflow limited” not liquid & pump side limited.
I would now boost airflow somehow to further test.
Start by blowing more air on the parked stationary vehicle with a large electric floor fan or leaf blower.
If this added boost of airflow lowers the liquid temperature down to the 180 degree setting of the thermostat, then try a larger diameter fan, or a same diameter fan with more blades and/or pitch.
My thoughts as well. The thing is it runs about same place on the gauge driving down the road at 55 mph I cant get the idea out of my head that the fan blade is to small for the shroud opening. and/or not enough blade pitch The cars Ive had in the past you could really feel suction in front of the radiator at idle . This one IMO doesnt pull like I think it should/could. And it doesnt really help much when i bring it up off idle Also, base timing was almost 18-19 degrees , I bumped that down to about 15 to see if it had any effect , So far nuttin I would say it needs more initial timing, try 22 to 25 , helps to get the heat off the cylinder walls & go out the exhaust valve
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: CSK]
#2849236
11/20/20 08:39 PM
11/20/20 08:39 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,435 It's a dry heat
gtx6970
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I pulled the water pump off of it tonight so I have a baseline / know exactly what I have.
And its an 8 blade pump and the fins go all the way to the outer edge of the casting , just barely fits in the hsg itself . So I think its as good as Im gonna get in regards to a pump
Last edited by gtx6970; 11/20/20 08:40 PM.
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: gtx6970]
#2849278
11/20/20 09:50 PM
11/20/20 09:50 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 299 Hinckley, Ohio
KWF340
enthusiast
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 299
Hinckley, Ohio
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A few years ago I battled a cooling issue with my Charger and I went through the same process as you. Long story short scale/rust/crud in the block broke loose and lodged in the radiator cooling tubes, which limited flow through the radiator. I had the radiator rodded and I put in a tefba filter which solved the problem. I was surprised how much crud it captured. I talked to Gus (fourgearsavoy) a week back and he recently had a similar experience - he put in a filter and trapped a bunch of crud. If all else fails, have the radiator rodded and put in a filter (at least temporarily).
1968 Charger R/T, 440 Auto, GG1; 1969 Super Bee, 383, 4-speed, T5; 1969.5 Road Runner, 440-6, 4-speed, 96; 1970 Duster 340, 4-speed, EV2; 1970 Charger R/T SE, 440 (496), Auto, EB3; 1970 Dart Swinger 340 (416), 4-speed, EV2; 1970 Corvette coupe, LS5, 4-speed, Daytona yellow; 2000 Corvette coupe, LS1, 6-speed, Twin Turbo, Torch red.
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: gtx6970]
#2849443
11/21/20 10:30 AM
11/21/20 10:30 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157 Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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I cant get the idea out of my head that the fan blade is to small for the shroud opening. and/or not enough blade pitch The cars Ive had in the past you could really feel suction in front of the radiator at idle . This one IMO doesnt pull like I think it should/could.
Bill, I don't know what blade style of fixed fan your running, but is it possible the fan's mounting is flipped or "backwards"?,....just a thought, you never know?....I've seen it before Mike
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#2849457
11/21/20 10:57 AM
11/21/20 10:57 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,435 It's a dry heat
gtx6970
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I cant get the idea out of my head that the fan blade is to small for the shroud opening. and/or not enough blade pitch The cars Ive had in the past you could really feel suction in front of the radiator at idle . This one IMO doesnt pull like I think it should/could.
Bill, I don't know what blade style of fixed fan your running, but is it possible the fan's mounting is flipped or "backwards"?,....just a thought, you never know?....I've seen it before Mike It was on there correctly. And its a direct drive fixed design 7 blade I currently have a couple friends cking for a smaller diam wp pulley. And if can find one i would like to update to a fixed blade if i can To speed up fan speed and coolant flow.
Last edited by gtx6970; 11/21/20 11:05 AM.
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: AndyF]
#2849493
11/21/20 12:07 PM
11/21/20 12:07 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,899 MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
ek3
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Posts: 1,899
MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
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My new toy went out last night for the 1st cruise under my ownership. 1966 Satellite hemi auto 3.54 dana
And I feel the car runs a little warmer than I would prefer. right at half way up the stock gauge on the interstate. But once in stop and go traffic it warmed up a little more then I would prefer,. it,,went nearly to the top of the gauge. and spit out some coolant once parked . The ride back home on the interstate it remained in the center of the gauge the entire drive. That I think I can live with .
I have to find out what thermostat is in it . Car is a street hemi, auto, approx. a 18" fixed blade fan , stock radiator and shroud. the OE rad had a new 3 row core done when the car was done. But has only had maybe 1000 miles on it in 15 plus years. I don't know yet if the block is bored or not. SO I need to do some digging. before getting to radical. BUT, ,,,,,
My questions is, has anyone used the stuff called water wetter , results good or bad . If I can cool it off maybe 20 degrees I would feel much better . The weather last nite was nice upper 80s for the drive up and maybe lower 80s for the drive home If it cools fine on the freeway but not at low speed then it is probably an airflow issue. Might need a fan with more blades or perhaps the position of the fan inside the shroud needs to be fixed. Also a good idea to verify that the radiator is in good shape. If the car has been sitting a lot then the radiator core could have some plugged up passages. Cars that sit a lot develop lots of little problems like that. rite there --- ^^^^^^^
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: gtx6970]
#2849689
11/21/20 07:12 PM
11/21/20 07:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,085 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,085
Benton, IL.
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I'll throw this in here; When I built my first stroker, it would heat up around town, did good on the road, but got warm at slow speeds and them would boil over from heat soak when I parked it. Annoying and embarrassing. After a lot of experimenting, I pulled a fan from (I think) an 80s Dodge pick-up. It is huge. The blades are big and have a lot of pitch to them. The problem was, of course, that it wouldn't fit in the Cuda's shroud. It would fit the clutch just fine, but was too big to go into the shroud.
Fortunately, the blades are aluminum. I just marked them, cut them down to size and installed it. That did it. It moves an enormous amount of air. I had it on that engine for several years and have now had it on this Hemi for 4 or 5 years. But it will wear out a clutch every few years, depending on the amount of driving time it gets.
The fan may not be perfectly round or in balance. But it has not given me any problems and I spin the Hemi to 7,000.
Just one experience.
Master, again and still
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2849691
11/21/20 07:17 PM
11/21/20 07:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,435 It's a dry heat
gtx6970
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I'll throw this in here; When I built my first stroker, it would heat up around town, did good on the road, but got warm at slow speeds and them would boil over from heat soak when I parked it. Annoying and embarrassing. After a lot of experimenting, I pulled a fan from (I think) an 80s Dodge pick-up. It is huge. The blades are big and have a lot of pitch to them. The problem was, of course, that it wouldn't fit in the Cuda's shroud. It would fit the clutch just fine, but was too big to go into the shroud.
Fortunately, the blades are aluminum. I just marked them, cut them down to size and installed it. That did it. It moves an enormous amount of air. I had it on that engine for several years and have now had it on this Hemi for 4 or 5 years. But it will wear out a clutch every few years, depending on the amount of driving time it gets.
The fan may not be perfectly round or in balance. But it has not given me any problems and I spin the Hemi to 7,000.
Just one experience. Thanks for the note. Thats the way Im headed I think. Move more air . Although I would prefer a direct drive non clutch fan
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: gtx6970]
#2850087
11/22/20 06:44 PM
11/22/20 06:44 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,825 Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
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Kirkland, Washington
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Just to confirm , changing to a smaller diam upper pulley with no change to the lower speeds the fan up correct ? Correct. And speeds up the water pump too of course.
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#2850124
11/22/20 08:14 PM
11/22/20 08:14 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,435 It's a dry heat
gtx6970
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Ok,
I had nothing to loose so I wanted to try something . So,,,, I put it back together with what I have. I gutted the original 160 thermostat. so now its nothing but a restrictor plate. I also bumped timing back up to 19 degrees base. Refilled it straight distilled water , added maybe a cup more of the cooling system additive. As the bottle says treats up to 12 quarts. this one was closer to 15 qts. Took it for a 25 mile test drive. So far so good. Its stayed well below half way on the gauge. Which by my earlier test , halfway is right at 190
Ambient temps during said ride were low 80s temps
Im going to drive it several times in a couple different environments before doing anything else to it
And as soon as I find a place its hidden , I will be adding a aftermkt gauge just for good measure before going any deeper.
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: Neil]
#2850129
11/22/20 08:27 PM
11/22/20 08:27 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,435 It's a dry heat
gtx6970
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Do you have a spring in the lower radiator hose? yes, added one while I had it apart the other day . Before I did this last test
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: 360view]
#2851685
11/26/20 07:46 AM
11/26/20 07:46 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,435 It's a dry heat
gtx6970
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Good progress!
Now on to reducing pinging to where you do not need to use a special gasoline blend?
You still might want a higher flow fan. I am planning a different fan , maybe. I want to drive it a bit and make sure all is good. before doing anything else cooling system wise . As far as reducing the race gas mix thing. THAT'S gonna require a complete tear down and new pistons. Thats a project for a day down the road a ways. Its not an everyday driver so $100 fuel tank fill ups dont really bother me to much .
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: gtx6970]
#2851689
11/26/20 08:09 AM
11/26/20 08:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162 USA
360view
Moparts resident spammer
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Moparts resident spammer
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: BlueRacer69]
#2854085
12/01/20 11:20 PM
12/01/20 11:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,435 It's a dry heat
gtx6970
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UPDATE, worked on it today
I bought and Installed a mechanical gauge today. So far , so good. I also put an overflow bottle on it so it doesnt mark its spot anymore As the rad cap is a newer model designed for a return system .
Got it all warmed up sitting at high idle ,,,,, and the stock dash gauge needle pointing straight up the mech gauge is showing right at 170ish . Im gonna run it a while and see where it operates regularly . Im really starting to think im chasing a bad gauge or sending unit.
Got any updates? Ive had it out a couple times . So far the car runs SUPER cool. Like below 150 degrees to cold cool with the gutted thermostat . IMO to cold . Keeping in mind ambient temps have been a tad chily around here I have a couple different temp range Stewart Components high flow thermostats coming and plan to replace both radiator hoses while its apart this time.
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: AndyF]
#2854146
12/02/20 07:17 AM
12/02/20 07:17 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,435 It's a dry heat
gtx6970
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If it runs cold without a thermostat then your cooling system should be fine. Sounds like your old thermostat wasn't working properly. I had the same issue with an issue. The thermostat checked out okay when tested in hot water on the stove, but it made the engine overheat. It was a new thermostat but it didn't work properly. The next new one solved the problem. Lots of junk for sale at the auto parts store these days. My thoughts exactly New Stat should be here today or tomorrow
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: gtx6970]
#2857484
12/09/20 07:33 AM
12/09/20 07:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162 USA
360view
Moparts resident spammer
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Thanks, I used Rislone water treatment ( couldn't get Water wetter locally ) and So far so good.
with a gutted thermostat in it the car runs in the 130-140 range running down the road ,,,which is obviously to cold ( including expressway ) , It gets to maybe 160 ish range at extended idle while you have the gutted thermostat in and the weather is cool, it might be a good time to do some experiments on pinging versus coolant temperature. Years ago (about 1999) I decided to do an Oxalic Acid flush of the cooling system of the Magnum 5.9V8 in a 1995 Ram. With distilled water, Prestone Oxalic Acid flush and no thermostat I pretty quickly noticed that the light pinging on 85 AKI gasoline I usually had in the hot 95-99 North Carolina summer weather disappeared. My coolant gauge and scanner readings showed 145 degrees coolant temperature. I tested for pinging on a steep 4% grade hill by going to full throttle in 2nd gear. My fuzzy memory is that a 10 degree coolant temperature change leads to 5 Octane number fuel requirement change.
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: gtx6970]
#2857493
12/09/20 08:17 AM
12/09/20 08:17 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,583 SE Pa.
LimeliteAero
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master
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Posts: 6,583
SE Pa.
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One step closer. Stant superstat on the left. Stewart industries high flow on the right.
It with new radiator hoses go on this week.
Time will tell soon enough if im on the right track Bill do you mind relaying what degree thermostat you installed?
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Re: Water Wetter opinions ?????
[Re: LimeliteAero]
#2857521
12/09/20 09:44 AM
12/09/20 09:44 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,435 It's a dry heat
gtx6970
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Bill do you mind relaying what degree thermostat you installed?
I thought i had ordered both 160 and a 180 stat. But when it arrived its just the 160. Guessed clicked wrong Put it in yesterday. With new radiator hoses. Refilled with same distilled water and wetting agent. Fired it up in the garage .....And the temps stayed in the 170 ish temp range at idle speeds. For over a half hour. Will be driving it this weekend and will see how it does on the road.
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