What setting does the retard default to?

Reasons to lock the distributor:
1. one less thing to fail
2. fewer questions
3. less maintenance
4. don't understand what an advance curve does
5. bought it that way

The best spark setting for mixed use is not, ever, a single position. Beyond a certain RPM, and assuming WOT, a single setting is very close.

Time to finally make the switch to a Holley Sniper. Then you'll have EFI, plus data logging and a fully adjustable timing curve including start retard built in.

Unlock the distributor and put the correct curve in it. Locking the timing out is wrong.

Running a locked msd pro billet on my 12.5-1 493 . I have a digital 6 w start retard, but still get starter kickback and hard starting from time to time. Very annoying to say the least, but once started it runs awesome. Contemplating swapping distributor for a non locked version, or perhaps wire a start switch so I can get engine cranking first and then hit ignition. Built as a race car that wants to do some street cruising as well. Any thoughts?

Set the initial, idle timing, at or close to 14 to 16 BTDC and total of 34 to 36 BTDC and let us know how that works for you
I use the Mr. Gasket 96B springs (I hope that is the correct part number, maybe I should go look at some on the shelf, it is for GM distributors )

That curve wouldn't even idle in my Hemi. Funny how everyone thinks the same curve works on every engine. Its just a starting point, and you need to work on it to see how the engine responds Each engine likes what it likes, and total and idle will be different engine to engine. We are finding our stroker wedge engines like right around 38* and my buddies 440 that went 6.19 last night has to have 40* in it....

Whats nice about a locked distributor is the idle generally will get better with more timing. To low of idle timing, and the engine will start and stall very quickly, never really getting a strong idle. I find most of my engines like at least 20* in them. Hemis really like 25 at idle. Wedge we find 18 is usually fine. I like to close up the curve as much as possible to where its almost hard to start.

That curve wouldn't even idle in my Hemi. Funny how everyone thinks the same curve works on every engine. Its just a starting point, and you need to work on it to see how the engine responds Each engine likes what it likes, and total and idle will be different engine to engine. We are finding our stroker wedge engines like right around 38* and my buddies 440 that went 6.19 last night has to have 40* in it....

Whats nice about a locked distributor is the idle generally will get better with more timing. To low of idle timing, and the engine will start and stall very quickly, never really getting a strong idle. I find most of my engines like at least 20* in them. Hemis really like 25 at idle. Wedge we find 18 is usually fine. I like to close up the curve as much as possible to where its almost hard to start.

Big lumpy cams in a carbureted deal get locked.

You put the MSD distributor in it with the big bushing and light springs. And still have to make it idle at 1000 for it to stay running. Try to slow it down and the timing backs down, slowing it down even more until it won't run. Or it stalls when you drop it in gear. So you wind the idle up to keep it spinning fast enough to keep some timing in it so it will stay running.

Make a bushing or whatever, to get enough timing in it to idle and it ends up at 25, at least. Well I'm only running 34 and it's all in at 1500. Nothing happens below 3000 in my world, so why bother.

I've done the light springs, make a big bushing, drill the throttle blades, fiddle around with it, and every time I put a few more degrees of base timing in it, it likes it. So...Lock it, set it at 34 or whatever. It will idle at 800 in gear. Response will be sharp and crisp and it sounds happy. Every time.

And I've gone back and tried it the other way because "it's not supposed to be locked and it should have a curve". And the engine tells me "gimme timing".

Anything of mine, or anyone else's who spends the money and lets me, gets a crank trigger and a distributor that just spins the rotor around the cap. Easy, effective, simple.

My 499 840 hp idled at 650 with instant throttle response in gear, timing all in at idle, but was maybe 10 degrees starting so it wouldn’t kick back.
Forgot to add total was 37, never moved it to see if it was better anywhere else.

How you going to learn if you don't test, especially testing at a good track

Hundreds of millions of engines made with curves since the Model T (manual advance).
Too bad they didn't realize you don't need it.

Whether you believe in it or not, physics is always there.

This could all be resolved by a simple test with an in-cylinder pressure transducer. It's been done, by F1, Ferrari, Mercedes, and every auto manufacturer.

I'm not dealing with OEM spec engines much. An engine that operates primarily at part throttle from idle to 3000 RPM is a different animal from a race deal that's either on or off. Or even a race deal with tags that idles around on the street some on a Saturday night.

Big, lumpy cam = >240*-245* @ .050. <10" vacuum. Usually a roller of some type.

An electronic means of retarding timing when starting, high gear retards, pulling timing at the hit on a big power, suck track deal, are all great ideas to be able to do. But some of us are doing the KISS with just a 7AL with a crank trigger and a carb deal. So basically I don't need a curve. Also, race cars should have separate start and ignition switches to be able to spin the engine with the ignition off anyway. Easy to do, even if you're still using a stock ignition switch.

Having the thing fall back 15* or 20* from total timing usually ends up making you open the carb to make it idle. Now you've upset the throttle blade/transfer slot relationship or drilled holes in the blades. Either way, you're doing stuff to the carb you wouldn't have if it had the timing in it. I typically set the throttle/transfer slot relationship by eye, install the carb and keep my fingers off the idle speed screws for all but fine adjustments. If it won't idle, I fix the reason for it. Maybe a little air bleed somewhere.

Big roller, 800 RPM in gear without having my foot on the gas. Plugs a little hotter than most run, Sit and idle like that all day if I want.

I was running a locked-out MSD Pro-billet distributor on my RB. I swapped it out with one of the recently released Progressive Ignition bluetooth programmable distributors. With some guidance from AndyF, I ended up with my own custom ignition table that lets the motor crank at a low timing setting, but as soon as it starts the timing goes to 34* by 750 rpm.

The reason I switched was to add the adjustable vacuum advance to my set-up. Now, at cruising RPM I have 44* total. Attached is an example of one of the tables I tried before settling on what I just described. It's for illustrative purposes only. The numbers in the left colum are MAP readings, which account for atmospheric pressure.

Essentially, it gives me start retard, locked-out timing and vacuum advance. It also lets me see what the timing is doing in real time and make changes on my cell phone. So far everything is working flawlessly.

Tony, I have a slightly used MSD starter saver sitting in my cabinet that you can have if you want to try it. I don't need it anymore since I went digital. I assume this is the same module that you are currently using? Maybe yours is flaky so swapping in another one might eliminate that variable. No guarantees that this isn't also flaky. I never fully tested it. We used it a few times on the dyno but couldn't confirm that it was really working so we switched over to the method of spinning the engine before hitting the switch. Eventually we just went digital and EFI and built the start retard right into the map. Shoot me a PM if you want this MSD module.

I ended up making a stock Mopar low deck electronic distributer work very well in my old pump gas Duster by shortening up the advance slots so it had right at 18 crankshaft degrees of mechanical advance, which is nine distributor degrees, all in by 1200 RPM. It would start well and idle at 850 RPM in gear with 16 degrees BTDC, a fairly big solid roller cam (260@.050 int. with 266@.050 on the exhaust lobes installed at 106 ILC) ground on a 108 LSA.
That car and motor made me very happy, made some money at the track and had a lot of fun with it on the street

I ended up making a stock Mopar low deck electronic distributer work very well in my old pump gas Duster by shortening up the advance slots so it had right at 18 crankshaft degrees of mechanical advance, which is nine distributor degrees, all in by 1200 RPM. It would start well and idle at 850 RPM in gear with 16 degrees BTDC, a fairly big solid roller cam (260@.050 int. with 266@.050 on the exhaust lobes installed at 106 ILC) ground on a 108 LSA.
That car and motor made me very happy, made some money at the track and had a lot of fun with it on the street

Tony I fought with this a few years ago after changing to a digital 6 plus box from a old analog 6AL. Mine would kick back on the starter about 1 in 4 starts.

With the digital 6 box and HVC coil I had NO improvements just shorter cap and rotor life and shorter plug life on a indy headed 12:1 427cu in small block on e85.

I went back to the analog MSD 6AL stating issue went away, cap and rotor life improved, same ET and MPH. My personal opinion is the Digital 6 box is a POS.

Try something else

I've had a couple others say the say thing.. I do have a 6al sitting around... Did you also use the separate starter saver?