Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar?
[Re: Grizzly]
#2777199
05/22/20 08:52 PM
05/22/20 08:52 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,621 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,621
Fulton County, PA
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Nope. My Dad has been running them since before I was born, and I've been running them my entire life. We're in a good-sized town and everyone here runs Fram and believe Me: if there was a problem, the whole place would have heard about it. Race or no-race. I would have to classify the comments on here as baseless and ignorant. Plenty of guys who have lost engines, crashed cars, chased issues, who would have different experiences to pass along. Pleeenty. Heck, we had issues with them 40 years ago in the dealerships - when a particular OHC engine in a particular vehicle would come in with the cam locked in the head and the engine wrecked. Every single one had an orange engine killer on it. Specific issues? Cans rupture, cardboard internal parts and filter collapsing, loss of pressure. Maybe your town is lucky, but I've seen enough stuff torn up and tracks oiled that I know it's not an isolated incident when it happens. Your engine, your car. Carry on.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar?
[Re: Hemi_Joel]
#2777219
05/22/20 09:35 PM
05/22/20 09:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,493 On the run…
BloFish
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,493
On the run…
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Just run Wix 51515R, and sleep like a baby. Life’s too short to worry about that.
It really doesn't matter whether you win or lose… as long as you look good doing it!
‘65 A100 ‘69 ‘Cuda ‘73 Vega GT ‘06 Mega Cab ‘14 Mercedes SLK
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Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2777220
05/22/20 09:37 PM
05/22/20 09:37 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,008 Salem
Grizzly
Moparts Proctologist
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Moparts Proctologist
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,008
Salem
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I had a Fram on my car and the oil pressure dropped to 10 psi and after checking things a friend told me to change the filter.. the pressure came right back.. never used a Fram again.. my brother had his pressure fall off I told him to change the filter and it came back up Puh leez. Is this the "Ford owns Cummins" Old Wives' Club? I'm sure Fram would have been bankrupt years ago if EVERY guy that put a Fram on had a problem (like you make it sound). They've been an OEM supplier since the '30's.
Mo' Farts
Moderated by "tbagger".
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Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar?
[Re: Grizzly]
#2777223
05/22/20 09:44 PM
05/22/20 09:44 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I had a Fram on my car and the oil pressure dropped to 10 psi and after checking things a friend told me to change the filter.. the pressure came right back.. never used a Fram again.. my brother had his pressure fall off I told him to change the filter and it came back up Puh leez. Is this the "Ford owns Cummins" Old Wives' Club? I'm sure Fram would have been bankrupt years ago if EVERY guy that put a Fram on had a problem (like you make it sound). They've been an OEM supplier since the '30's. I couldnt care less what you want to run.. do as you wish Two filters in the same household.. within 2 years.. maybe we just have bad odds...
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 05/22/20 09:48 PM.
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Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar?
[Re: dOoC]
#2777224
05/22/20 09:45 PM
05/22/20 09:45 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 598 NC, USA
davenc
mopar
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mopar
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 598
NC, USA
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Doc,
This goes back a number of years. I had bought a fairly original 70 E-body with a 383 with 88K on the motor. Second oil change with a FRAM PH8A, started car up, and within about 5-10 seconds lifters start tapping. Look under the car to make sure I didn't do something stupid like add oil back without replacing the drain plug. No puddle. Checked the dipstick; plenty of oil. Started car a second time, lifters immediately tapping, shut it off. Scratched my head for a bit since it was running fine before the oil change. Since it was easy, I put the old oil filter back on the motor, add a bit of oil, and try again. No tick but the motor sounds different. Ended up pulling the motor within 6 months of the incident.
I kept that FRAM filter for a while because I did think about suing FRAM. Of course, I would need to prove it was the filter. I would need an expert to examine the motor parts to prove they were damaged by lack of oil. I would have to defend that it was not just coincidence with a 40 year old car (at the time) with some mileage. Lack of oil for a short time looks like excessive wear right? Likely would I need an attorney.
In the end I decided to do nothing. But motors have been lost to FRAM filters and I share this story when appropriate.
Dave
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Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar?
[Re: 70satelliteguy]
#2777225
05/22/20 09:48 PM
05/22/20 09:48 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 740 WA
JD Dart
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 740
WA
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My worst enemy I wouldn't tell them to use that crap filter I care too much for the engine to suggest suck a wicked thought.
best so far 8.53 @ 158.59 MPH 60'1.240
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Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2777226
05/22/20 09:53 PM
05/22/20 09:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,008 Salem
Grizzly
Moparts Proctologist
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Moparts Proctologist
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,008
Salem
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I couldnt care less what you want to run.. do as you wish Two filters in the same household.. within 2 years.. maybe we just have bad odds... Oh, I will. After running them for 70 years in at least a couple of hundred vehicles, Heavy Equipment, mowers, ATV's, and Motorcycles, I'm not going to buy yours or anyone elses' BS stories.
Mo' Farts
Moderated by "tbagger".
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Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar?
[Re: Grizzly]
#2777227
05/22/20 09:55 PM
05/22/20 09:55 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I couldnt care less what you want to run.. do as you wish Two filters in the same household.. within 2 years.. maybe we just have bad odds... Oh, I won't. After running them for 70 years in at least a couple of hundred vehicles, Heavy Equipment, mowers, ATV's, and Motorcycles, I'm not going to buy yours or anyone elses' BS stories. What ever floats your boat
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Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar?
[Re: jughed]
#2777257
05/23/20 12:45 AM
05/23/20 12:45 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,185 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,185
PA.
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I haven’t seen near as many cars wrecked because of Fram filters like I used to. Most guys have wised up I’m guessing.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar?
[Re: dOoC]
#2777260
05/23/20 01:44 AM
05/23/20 01:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,122 Auburn WA
Dave_J
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,122
Auburn WA
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I too had lost 15 PSI on a Fram. Did not think much about it till I dropped all oil pressure at 6000 RPM going thru the traps and my Idiot light came on.
A fellow racer had a spare Wix 51515, Installed it and finished the night and drove home.
A few months later I changed oil and grabbed the last one off my shelf and installed it. In two weeks it too lost about 10 PSI. Pulled the first one out of the trash and cut it open. Found it was all smashed inside, cut the second one and it too was smashed just not as bad. deeJAY ... 15lb loss would indicate to me ON THE SURFACE.... that the filter is actually FILTERING... instead of going on bypass ... Doc, I ran that PH8 for about 200 miles before that Test & Tune night. Engine sounded fine, just 10-15 PSI down from normal. I had made 3 passes when I lost oil pressure and the Idiot light came on and I shut it off. This was a 383 in my 65 Barracuda. I run a tee fitting with a mechanical gauge and the idiot light sensor. I go a tow back to the Pits and asked some of the Mopar and Ford racers if they had a spare filter. Ford racer had a few so I bought a Wix 51515 for what he wanted and made two more runs that night with no more pressure loss. I had bagged the Fram and tossed it in the corner of the garage and forgot about it. When the second one caused a pressure drop I pulled it off and went with a Napa gold 1515 and had no pressure drop. This is when I cut the first Fram open. It looked like a beer can that was drank and crushed and folded in the center The pleats were all mushed up. But NO metal inside that I could see. I also cut the second one open and it too was damaged but not as bad. The 383's oil pump ran 40 PSI at idle when hot and would go to 75 PSI above 2500 RPM. It was on the engine when I bought it. It was a HV pump with a stock pressure spring. It was still on the engine when I pulled that 383 and put a 318 in the car.
Retired, US ARMY 1973-1994 ASE mechanic, Electrical 1994-1997 Retired GTE/VERIZON/FRONTIER 1997-2015
Posting cheap tech help (CRAP) here since Nov 97, 1000's of posts, some may be good.
03 Suzuki Burgman 650(Burger King) Scooter 65 Formula S Cuda 78 Little Red Express Truck 98 Buick Regal (wifes car)
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Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar?
[Re: davenc]
#2777330
05/23/20 11:31 AM
05/23/20 11:31 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,566 Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,566
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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Doc,
This goes back a number of years. I had bought a fairly original 70 E-body with a 383 with 88K on the motor. Second oil change with a FRAM PH8A, started car up, and within about 5-10 seconds lifters start tapping. Look under the car to make sure I didn't do something stupid like add oil back without replacing the drain plug. No puddle. Checked the dipstick; plenty of oil. Started car a second time, lifters immediately tapping, shut it off. Scratched my head for a bit since it was running fine before the oil change. Since it was easy, I put the old oil filter back on the motor, add a bit of oil, and try again. No tick but the motor sounds different. Ended up pulling the motor within 6 months of the incident.
I kept that FRAM filter for a while because I did think about suing FRAM. Of course, I would need to prove it was the filter. I would need an expert to examine the motor parts to prove they were damaged by lack of oil. I would have to defend that it was not just coincidence with a 40 year old car (at the time) with some mileage. Lack of oil for a short time looks like excessive wear right? Likely would I need an attorney.
In the end I decided to do nothing. But motors have been lost to FRAM filters and I share this story when appropriate.
Dave
Getting an attorney doesn't change the fact you have to PROVE it was the fault of the filter alone that damaged the engine which is as close to impossible as you can get. All you need to do is cut open a new Fram and a new Wix. You don't have to know anything about filter technology to know which one to use after that. Kevin
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Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar?
[Re: Grizzly]
#2777334
05/23/20 11:42 AM
05/23/20 11:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,885 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,885
Rio Linda, CA
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I would have to classify the comments on here as baseless and ignorant.
The negative responses are too predictable, mostly based on the old internet "oil filter study" of years past that was mostly an eyeball comparison.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar?
[Re: jughed]
#2777370
05/23/20 01:11 PM
05/23/20 01:11 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,521 Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,521
Tulsa, Oklahoma
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Years ago my street motor dumped a puddle of oil on the garage floor when a Fram PH8 case bulged and lost seal. Good thing it happened right after the oil change. I had the hood open and saw the oil poor out.... got the motor shut off in time. Now I use nothing but Wix. Ray Barton thinks that Frams are good enough for his pricey motors. https://www.raybarton.com/pages/street-series-hemi That looks like an HP filter to me, very different from a PH8 and probably not a bad filter. PH8 probably okay as a low cost filter for a low performance daily driver. I don't know why anyone that was on Moparts would want one.
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Re: Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar?
[Re: jughed]
#2777374
05/23/20 01:33 PM
05/23/20 01:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,050 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,050
Oregon
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Years ago my street motor dumped a puddle of oil on the garage floor when a Fram PH8 case bulged and lost seal. Good thing it happened right after the oil change. I had the hood open and saw the oil poor out.... got the motor shut off in time. Now I use nothing but Wix. Ray Barton thinks that Frams are good enough for his pricey motors. https://www.raybarton.com/pages/street-series-hemi Maybe Barton puts Fram filters on those engines so he'll get some business doing rebuilds.
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