Anything wrong with a Fram PH8a for racecar?

Any problems?

The orange canister of death ..

Napa gold , or Wix for me

Everything.

If you want to use a Fram, use an HP-1. Otherwise, don't bother.

Not even on a lawn mower. Are you new? That's like Crap to Avoid Like the Plague 101.

With 1100+ post I hardly think he is new.... OP... use a Wix on it and dont worry

Not even good for a boom-stick suppressor. Garbage. Throw it away, and never buy another.

Day- ummmm .....

Wix 51515 for a bigblock race motor.

I know they are expensive, but for a race car I like something like a System One filter, it is cleanable, easy to check and see if your engine is making metal, super heavy duty housing never have to worry about them bursting, and eventually it will pay for itself because you never have to buy another filter. On 340's they give you more header clearance. Usually they pick up the oil pressure slightly as well.

Plus you can say you are protecting the environment, no more oily filters in the landfill.

Nope.

My Dad has been running them since before I was born, and I've been running them my entire life.

We're in a good-sized town and everyone here runs Fram and believe Me: if there was a problem, the whole place would have heard about it. Race or no-race.

I would have to classify the comments on here as baseless and ignorant.

I had a Fram on my car and the oil pressure dropped to 10 psi and after checking things a friend
told me to change the filter.. the pressure came right back.. never used a Fram again..
my brother had his pressure fall off I told him to change the filter and it came back up

grizz... Grizz..... GRIZZZZZZZ !

Yur gonna RILE UP some here ! .....

Ordered the Wix racing filter today. Seems I do recall there being issues with them but thought maybe they had fixed the problems.
Besides low pressure what else is the problem?
Thanks Mike

Does anyone here have any issues with the Jomar filter.
Thanks................Ted

They are cheaply made pieces of poo. Search youtube for fram filter comparison. It's all you need to know.

If it can stand the pressure use it. All filters have a bypass made into them for a reason, free flowing. Get into the rpms and your high dollar filter ain’t doing squat. If it does stop up guess what happens, no oil pressure. Oil filters on a race car are useless imo since if something breaks you ain’t gonna get it shut off in time to keep the parts out of the pump. If it breaks real good it shuts its own self off after the flames and carnival ride. For iron particles, big magnets in the pan and other places where the oil flows freely, easy to check and clean. Aluminum, brass will not hurt anything, just imbed into the bearings. STREET is a whole nuther animal a good filter Is necessary for the many hours of slow speed running around. Tell me, how can dirt and grit get into your sealed up engine other than thru the carb?

I too had lost 15 PSI on a Fram. Did not think much about it till I dropped all oil pressure at 6000 RPM going thru the traps and my Idiot light came on.

A fellow racer had a spare Wix 51515, Installed it and finished the night and drove home.

A few months later I changed oil and grabbed the last one off my shelf and installed it. In two weeks it too lost about 10 PSI. Pulled the first one out of the trash and cut it open. Found it was all smashed inside, cut the second one and it too was smashed just not as bad.

deeJAY ... 15lb loss would indicate to me ON THE SURFACE.... that the filter is actually FILTERING... instead of going on bypass ...

Wix 51515R for racing, Wix 51515 for the street.

NOW ONLY if we all had THE BANK of SOME PEOPLE on here ...

Plenty of guys who have lost engines, crashed cars, chased issues, who would have different experiences to pass along. Pleeenty. Heck, we had issues with them 40 years ago in the dealerships - when a particular OHC engine in a particular vehicle would come in with the cam locked in the head and the engine wrecked. Every single one had an orange engine killer on it.

Specific issues? Cans rupture, cardboard internal parts and filter collapsing, loss of pressure. Maybe your town is lucky, but I've seen enough stuff torn up and tracks oiled that I know it's not an isolated incident when it happens. Your engine, your car. Carry on.

Seriously... seaMaC ..... if people were losing motors and crashing cars because of famously defective products for years AND YEARS ..... I would think —- Fram would be sued and bankrupted BACK into the Stone Age BACK with Rocky from Niles Ohio !!

Just run Wix 51515R, and sleep like a baby. Life’s too short to worry about that.

Puh leez. Is this the "Ford owns Cummins" Old Wives' Club?

I'm sure Fram would have been bankrupt years ago if EVERY guy that put a Fram on had a problem (like you make it sound). They've been an OEM supplier since the '30's.

I couldnt care less what you want to run.. do as you wish
Two filters in the same household.. within 2 years.. maybe we just have bad odds...

Doc,

This goes back a number of years. I had bought a fairly original 70 E-body with a 383 with 88K on the motor. Second oil change with a FRAM PH8A, started car up, and within about 5-10 seconds lifters start tapping. Look under the car to make sure I didn't do something stupid like add oil back without replacing the drain plug. No puddle. Checked the dipstick; plenty of oil. Started car a second time, lifters immediately tapping, shut it off. Scratched my head for a bit since it was running fine before the oil change. Since it was easy, I put the old oil filter back on the motor, add a bit of oil, and try again. No tick but the motor sounds different. Ended up pulling the motor within 6 months of the incident.

I kept that FRAM filter for a while because I did think about suing FRAM. Of course, I would need to prove it was the filter. I would need an expert to examine the motor parts to prove they were damaged by lack of oil. I would have to defend that it was not just coincidence with a 40 year old car (at the time) with some mileage. Lack of oil for a short time looks like excessive wear right? Likely would I need an attorney.

In the end I decided to do nothing. But motors have been lost to FRAM filters and I share this story when appropriate.

Dave

My worst enemy I wouldn't tell them to use that crap filter I care too much for the engine to suggest suck a wicked thought.

Oh, I will.

After running them for 70 years in at least a couple of hundred vehicles, Heavy Equipment, mowers, ATV's, and Motorcycles, I'm not going to buy yours or anyone elses' BS stories.

What ever floats your boat

Stay away from a K&N oil filter too. Same oil pressure issues as a Fram. Only nice thing about the K&N are hex’s on the filters

Years ago my street motor dumped a puddle of oil on the garage floor when a Fram PH8 case bulged and lost seal. Good thing it happened right after the oil change. I had the hood open and saw the oil poor out.... got the motor shut off in time. Now I use nothing but Wix.

Ray Barton thinks that Frams are good enough for his pricey motors.
https://www.raybarton.com/pages/street-series-hemi

I haven’t seen near as many cars wrecked because of Fram filters like I used to. Most guys have wised up I’m guessing.

Doc, I ran that PH8 for about 200 miles before that Test & Tune night. Engine sounded fine, just 10-15 PSI down from normal.
I had made 3 passes when I lost oil pressure and the Idiot light came on and I shut it off. This was a 383 in my 65 Barracuda. I run a tee fitting with a mechanical gauge and the idiot light sensor.

I go a tow back to the Pits and asked some of the Mopar and Ford racers if they had a spare filter. Ford racer had a few so I bought a Wix 51515 for what he wanted and made two more runs that night with no more pressure loss. I had bagged the Fram and tossed it in the corner of the garage and forgot about it.

When the second one caused a pressure drop I pulled it off and went with a Napa gold 1515 and had no pressure drop. This is when I cut the first Fram open. It looked like a beer can that was drank and crushed and folded in the center The pleats were all mushed up. But NO metal inside that I could see. I also cut the second one open and it too was damaged but not as bad.

The 383's oil pump ran 40 PSI at idle when hot and would go to 75 PSI above 2500 RPM. It was on the engine when I bought it. It was a HV pump with a stock pressure spring. It was still on the engine when I pulled that 383 and put a 318 in the car.

Getting an attorney doesn't change the fact you have to PROVE it was the fault of the filter alone that damaged the engine which is as close to impossible as you can get.

All you need to do is cut open a new Fram and a new Wix. You don't have to know anything about filter technology to know which one to use after that.

Kevin

The negative responses are too predictable, mostly based on the old internet "oil filter study" of years past that was mostly an eyeball comparison.

Thanks John.

Yeah, not the first time a good ol' Fram bash has happened on here. It's progressed though from "heard from my Uncles' Cousin" to first-hand accounts !!! Of course, no photos or video of what most would consider an epic event...........

I'd pay good money to have the oil pump that "ruptured the can" above. I'd put it in a Track Hoe and move some dirt with it or a mount it on a Fire Truck for putting out skyscraper fires!

X10 !!

I read here awhile back about the insanity of using the dreaded "Orange" filter that I was continuing to use on my third Tacoma, now with 500K+, so I switched to the Silver Fram.

That looks like an HP filter to me, very different from a PH8 and probably not a bad filter.

PH8 probably okay as a low cost filter for a low performance daily driver.

I don't know why anyone that was on Moparts would want one.

Maybe Barton puts Fram filters on those engines so he'll get some business doing rebuilds.

Well there must be a reason my local Oreillys doesn't carry fram filters

Q
Seriously just cut one open and then cut open a Wix or a factory filter. The difference is VERY noticable. The Fram is made as cheaply as possible. It's fine to have a different opinion but please make it an informed one and not just anecdotal. If you want to use them go right ahead, it's still a free country for the most part but I'll never use another one.
And yes many years ago Mopar put out a TSB on the Fram filters for the Cummins application saying they wouldn't warranty an engine as the filters were found to have metal particle contamination in them from the manufacturing process.

Chain stores are tied to certain brands.

We're talking mid to late '80s when that filter expansion/oil loss happened (stock 400 in a '77 Cordoba). That's what I get for listening to folks who claimed that Fram filters were the best filters.

I used Fram filters back in the 80's along with most everyone else. It wasn't until sometime in the 90's that a buddy showed me the inside of a Fram filter and I realized that they were cheap junk. I switched then to Wix since they have a more robust construction. These days I use the small factory 409 filter on all of my Mopar cars. I use a factory Toyota filter on my Toyota.

Yes I have a PERSONAL bias against FRAM from my above failures. No I did not take pictures or videos so does that mean is did not happen? This was back in 1992-94 time frame. I have used 100's of filters since then with no like failures.

I do not have any personal stake in any Filter company nor do any family or friends so I am not monetarily tied to any one filter.

But does someone on here have a personal stake in FRAM?

(1) If you tried to go after Fram with a claim that their filter was defective, they'd send you a new filter.
(2) Fram is like Pennzoil, there are some people that will swear by them regardless.
(3) As to Fram going bankrupt, Champion is still in business.

Jomar no bypass from Hughes saved 2 engines when lifters failed. Will never use anything else!

nothing wrong with a Fram PH8a, just depends on where it was made. Downunder the factory that makes Fram, also makes Wix, Toyota Genuine, Repco & probably others. Same filters with different screen printing on the outside, all made for the Australasian market. I'm guessing its the same up in the US/Mexico, people get all brand happy, not realising the competition is made in the same factory. I have seen first hand how some filters differ with the relief, filter core etc... but it all comes down to where the internal parts are sourced from. But if you can fit an HP1, you have stepped up on the filter construction quality.

I will just say this...….for years I used Fram filters until I heard some bad about them. And that's the only reason I have not used them for a while. I used them in the 70's and 80's and I have never lost an eng and never had any oil pressure problems when I was using Fram. Ron

Fram filers should be used to make prison coffee, cuz they deserve grinds.

i have had fram filters collapse internally causing pressure problems.
however, i have had wix filters come with out attachment threads and no gaskets.
no pictures of either above problems.
i still prefer, recommend, and use wix.

I've never had a problem with Fram filters that I can blame on the filter, but after I started cutting filters open on a regular basis, the cardboard end caps kind of spooked me.

I recently bought a small surplus of Carquest/Wix manufactured filters and found one defective one in the (the cartridge was physically loose and flopping around inside the housing, it rattled when shaken). One bad one out of about 20 purchased.

Buddy of mine lost oil pressure completely with a K&N.

Just saying they can all have defects, have to be careful.

The HP1 is a 40 micron racing filter. It does have a huge amount of filter media compared to a PH8 but the PH8 is a 20 micron. Its like comparing a Wix 51515 to a 51515R

I had a fram collapse internally and take out a engine in my driver. Never again.

I've cut a bunch of Fram oil filters apart starting back in early 1970s, I stop using them when they went cheap
Wix only now , not the high bypass race filters either

Lol! You’ve obviously never cut one open and seen past the pretty outside of the filter.
Just because something glitters doesn’t mean it’s gold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRR...tKOEhLfR2dAWoN-sOHekG3peoYDv6mWReugion0Q

Lol

Problem with Fram is they are a cheap filter posing as a good filter. For the way they are constructed they should cost $2. But they cost the same as a Wix or Baldwin filter but are made much much cheaper. Many dont have problems with Frams but like I said- its a $2 that cost $6. Fram and Dorman (Maybe Moog) are iconinc brands that used to make fantastic quality parts that make cheapo crap now.

The tests I have seen have not rated the K&N highly.

I use both types of Wix. I think I'll stock up on more of them....you never know when a company will go the cheap Chinese route (like Fram did).

at one time, there was a group buy for WIX filters.
is that still in effect ? [i haven't researched this]

I get mine locally at napa. The girl that works there calls me twice a year when they have their 40-50 percent off sale. I just bought 125.00 worth for my motorhome, truck, car, and race cars.



https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...-filters-for-moparts-members.html#UNREAD

yeah john, i just missed that sale this year !
any chance for a heads up when the second one will be ?
my napa is only two miles away.

I posted about it on abodyonly when it started. I will try to remember to remind you buddy.

Yes there is:

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...-filters-for-moparts-members.html#UNREAD

I was planning to use the Fram PH8A as an initial startup filter with hi-Zinc break-in motor oil... figure ~2-hours max (flat tappet, hyd)... then change the springs, etc... and then throw away that Fram PH8a for a better filter... racing PH1 or other as I've always used throughout the season..

Any opinions on just using the PH8a as a quick break-in then throw away filter?

Odds are that it will work just fine.

Are you feeling lucky?
Why take a chance ,
Buy and use a good filter on your new motor
BTW, I run my new motors with flat tappet cams for 20 to 30 minutes at or above 1500 RPM to break in the cam and lifters and then change the oil and filter and cut the filter open for inspection before running the motor again with the new oil and filter
The reason for me doing this is I have had two brand new hydraulic flat tappet camshafts that had no taper ground on the lobes and they both started eating the lobes in those 20 to 30 minutes which was trapped in the Wix oil filters
Murphy loves messing with us hot rodders and racers

Why do you hate your engine? Why would you spend thousands of dollars on a new engine then cheap out and not spend $6 or $7 for a good filter?

Orange canister of death lol. Never heard that one.

I have used the Fram HP racing filters on my engines before in a pinch and broke them in with whatever is cheap I can get my hands on at the time. Never had one collapse. Mostly I use a system 1 filter.

Honestly I think the Fram filter collapsing thing is the exception not the norm.

Someone from the LEFTY COAST needs a really good filter TO FILTER OUT those excessive smilies !

AND ... if a good filter is required AT ALL it’s during the break in period ...

I wonder if that guy ever used a TP canister type ... rumor has it that Charmin has the bestest filtering quality’s. !!

Stay on topic Doc...

You don't remember all the hype on T.V. in the late 1950 and early 1960 selling those add on oil filters that used T.P rolls instead of using standard oil filters?
I wish I could remember the name of that company, I never used them either
Man I must be getting old, HUH DOC

Frantz was one.

That sounds correct, THANKS

Amsoil Sold the same thing , not sure if they still do.

Friend used a K & N on a furd , it blew the canister apart and he almost crashed .. I'll pass on those also

No they do not. In fact if you cut one of their filters open they are identical to a wix racing filter or napa gould.

This is not a full flow system any more.
The Franz and Amsoil are now a 'Bypass' oiling system where a small amount of oil is tee'ed off the main filtered oil feed to go thru the Toilet Paper. It can not flow enough to supply the engine in full flow. The Bypass'ed oil is filtered down to 2 microns and then just dumped back into the oil pan.

A Fram PH8 and Wix 51515 are about 20 microns. Tests have said that anything above 5 microns is bad for long term use.

The Fram PH8A, HP1 and Wix 51515R are about 40 microns and the idea is that you will dump the oil after so many races, RACES not street miles.

Ok...So my wife picked up a NAPA Gold for my 64 Dodge and one for my 95 Ram 1500 with a 5.9 magnum. The total for the pair was 17.00 without sales tax. Fram filters sell for a lot less at the farm store. I always run Wix or Napa Gold on the drag car but the old Ram I usually put a cheap farm store filter on it. That truck has almost 190000 miles on it and no problem with oil pressure...

I’m good for awhile

I think most off brand filters are made better than the Fram. I would use anything else than a Fram.

Thanks guys..Got enough filters on hand John??

Menards has PH8A for $3.45 each.

Maybe Grizzly will go buy a gross of them!

[spoiler][/spoiler]


So BANJOnes .... anything else ??!! ... even considering mopXs suggestion of Dollar Tree TP ?

No GRIZZZ cleaned out the local Dollar General!

Ya I’m good. It’s nice getting a heads up call and getting them at 40-50% off during their biannual sale. She’s a real cutie and great at looking up and getting me parts for my 50 year old junk cars.

No TP is too far scarce these days to even consider that! I remember seeing those ads as a kid and couldn't understand how that would not come apart and clog up the sump. I mean hell even my finger breaks through that stuff once in awhile.

I have read this oil filter post from the start.
There were a couple of replies about the K&N filters.
I had been using the HP-3001 with no problems.
So after reading this I decided to install a WIX filter and see if there was an oil pressure increase?
I didn't notice much of a change in pressure.
But I decided to cut the filter open and see what it looked like inside.
The part that shows in my picture is where it was distorted a bit.
From those in the know what are your thoughts on the distortion?
Thanks! MJ

I don't think that is a big deal. Looks like they had room for more pleats though.

I've cut a bunch of different brand oil filters apart for inspections, I don't remember seeing that in any of the Wix filters I've inspected
I have seen that in other brands, maybe they are in a hurry and don't do very good quality control

While I am sure they are adequate, the reviews of K&N oil filters I have seen, compared to others have not been that great.

I have a new , from the early 90's HP-1 in my cabinet if anyone wants to buy it --just one, also have 1 direct connection filter in there too and several wix both street and strip versions