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Diagnose Latest Build 440 6Pack ?!?!?
#2696068
09/10/19 10:21 AM
09/10/19 10:21 AM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 246
Cent, OH
Mopar.70
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 246
Cent, OH
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Moparts World. I've wrapped up my latest resto on my 71 Challenger 440 6 pack. Car was stripped down to a bare shell and a basketcase project. So I feel great I saved it from the grave and it's a great feeling to drive this thing down the road! But I don't quite feel it's preforming like I planned for it. It's not a numbers car, although my goal was as stock appearing as possible it does have headers and 4 core alum. radiator. I'll give the spec's on it below and history below and if you would help me trouble shoot this build and see if anything glaring pops out at you.
Tanny woes: The first drive in this thing yielded some transmission issues. It wouldn't shift out of 1st gear, pulling the trans and going thru it we found a port was plugged preventing pressure to allow the 1st to 2nd shift. One thing I recall during the first run, car felt like I thought it would in 1st, didn't take much to spin the tires, just a tap of the pedal. So even though everything was rebuilt and new in the tranny, I had bought a full kit for it and put it all in new and upgrade low/reverse band and kickdown lever to 5.0 ratio. Car now shifts into all gears, and drives fine. It will do a burnout, but it's not as scary as I figured it would be with 440 six pack. Car seems "labored" or sluggish". Seems something is robbing it of power. Not alot of low end power, but if you stomp on it while in 3rd gear it pulls hard on the top end. I planned for more torque and low end power than top end power? He's what's in it that I can think of off the top of my head. I'm not sure if it's converter, gear, bad tranny build, bad valve body, timming etc. . .
- 440 .040 over with KB pistons, 915 closed chamber heads that have been milled a tad and slight port/bowl work. 2.14/1.84 valves I believe. Lunati voodoo hydraulic .534/.513 cam (builder said would give 10.1 comp with piston/head combo)
- 6 pack is the direction connection aftermarket mech set
- 3,000 stall converter (Hughes, new)
- 3:55 gear
- 275/60 R 15 tires
-727 has factory valve body, it's a 64 model, but was an old race tranny. Had HD drum and other items to "beef" it up. I'm not a tranny wiz, but have been told by multiple people it has the right stuff in it. But recently had to tighten low/reverse band. Drove around a summer with it to loose.
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Re: Diagnose Latest Build 440 6Pack ?!?!?
[Re: moparx]
#2696095
09/10/19 11:16 AM
09/10/19 11:16 AM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 141
Missouri
randavis
member
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member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 141
Missouri
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I had a 64 Polara 500 2dr hardtop with a floor shifted 727. That tranny was not cable shifted. He could have one of those.
Just sayin'
74 Challenger, bought it new. In 1978 I replaced the original 318 with a 446 and 727. Mild cam, Jardine headers, and Holley Sniper EFI.
New engine! 511" RB, Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, Eagle rotating assy, Comp hyd roller cam, Doug's 2" headers.
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Re: Diagnose Latest Build 440 6Pack ?!?!?
[Re: randavis]
#2696114
09/10/19 12:05 PM
09/10/19 12:05 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 528
SW CO
HemiSportFury
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 528
SW CO
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I had a 64 Polara 500 2dr hardtop with a floor shifted 727. That tranny was not cable shifted. He could have one of those.
Just sayin' The 64 council shifted 727s were still cable shift. Just from the shifter instead of the pushbuttons.
'64 Sport Fury, 528 Hemi, FiTech EFI, 4-speed, 4.10 Dana 60
'57 Belvedere 2dr sedan, current project in process
'19 Cherokee Trail Hawk Elite
'03 Ram 2500 CTD HO, 6-speed 214,000 miles and still going strong
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Re: Diagnose Latest Build 440 6Pack ?!?!?
[Re: Mopar.70]
#2696125
09/10/19 12:20 PM
09/10/19 12:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Moparts World. I've wrapped up my latest resto on my 71 Challenger 440 6 pack. Car was stripped down to a bare shell and a basketcase project. So I feel great I saved it from the grave and it's a great feeling to drive this thing down the road! But I don't quite feel it's preforming like I planned for it. It's not a numbers car, although my goal was as stock appearing as possible it does have headers and 4 core alum. radiator. I'll give the spec's on it below and history below and if you would help me trouble shoot this build and see if anything glaring pops out at you.
Tanny woes: The first drive in this thing yielded some transmission issues. It wouldn't shift out of 1st gear, pulling the trans and going thru it we found a port was plugged preventing pressure to allow the 1st to 2nd shift. One thing I recall during the first run, car felt like I thought it would in 1st, didn't take much to spin the tires, just a tap of the pedal. So even though everything was rebuilt and new in the tranny, I had bought a full kit for it and put it all in new and upgrade low/reverse band and kickdown lever to 5.0 ratio. Car now shifts into all gears, and drives fine. It will do a burnout, but it's not as scary as I figured it would be with 440 six pack. Car seems "labored" or sluggish". Seems something is robbing it of power. Not alot of low end power, but if you stomp on it while in 3rd gear it pulls hard on the top end. I planned for more torque and low end power than top end power? He's what's in it that I can think of off the top of my head. I'm not sure if it's converter, gear, bad tranny build, bad valve body, timming etc. . .
- 440 .040 over with KB pistons, 915 closed chamber heads that have been milled a tad and slight port/bowl work. 2.14/1.84 valves I believe. Lunati voodoo hydraulic .534/.513 cam (builder said would give 10.1 comp with piston/head combo)
- 6 pack is the direction connection aftermarket mech set
- 3,000 stall converter (Hughes, new)
- 3:55 gear
- 275/60 R 15 tires
-727 has factory valve body, it's a 64 model, but was an old race tranny. Had HD drum and other items to "beef" it up. I'm not a tranny wiz, but have been told by multiple people it has the right stuff in it. But recently had to tighten low/reverse band. Drove around a summer with it to loose. You want some low end grunt/balls from that combo, dump that pig of a converter, get yourself into the 1800-2000 RPM stall range before even dialing in the carbs/timing IMHO Mike
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Re: Diagnose Latest Build 440 6Pack ?!?!?
[Re: A727Tflite]
#2696302
09/10/19 08:50 PM
09/10/19 08:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 246
Cent, OH
Mopar.70
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 246
Cent, OH
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I built the engine (not my first engine build), but had a fellow member here/drag racer dial in the cam. He checked TDC, set the cam per the card and no offset in degrees. Verified what he did to with degree wheel etc.
TDC checked with damper and piston travel
Timing is one thing I changed, when we set it, we set it at 36 at 2,000 rpm, that was without vacuum advance set up. Plugged in the vac. ad. and ran it for awhile. Check it with vac. ad. hooked up and once you leave idle it would just go into outter space off the damper with increase of RPM. So plugged vacuum advance and it holds 36 all the way up to 3,000 ish when we checked it. I did put the light weight springs in the distributor.
WOT seems right on, pedal does give you WOT. I could adjust when outboards come in since they are mech on progressive linkage but I haven't.
Did not verify compression
The motor runs fine, idles well, great throttle response, seems normal and uncapped it's LOUD, like my small block drag car was. The one and only thing I felt uneasy about with the engine was I bought pushrods from 440 source that are for hydraulic cam, and mech rockers. I don't have factory hyd rockers. They are isky iron rockers. I didn't do a custom push rod length check. But the length of adjuster screw out of the rocker was good.
Could add I have magnaflow 2-1/2 exhaust with x pipe.
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Re: Diagnose Latest Build 440 6Pack ?!?!?
[Re: Mopar.70]
#2696341
09/10/19 10:21 PM
09/10/19 10:21 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 598
NC, USA
davenc
mopar
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mopar
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 598
NC, USA
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It will read 36-37 degrees no matter if your at idle or come up in RPM. I think because the light weight springs With 10:1 and iron heads, I would expect the motor to ping badly with that much initial. Sometimes way over advanced can kill power. This is definitely an area to improve in your combo (hot street engine). As stated 18-22 initial with the remainder in by 2500 or so. Timing curve can make a big difference in the power characteristics.
Last edited by davenc; 09/11/19 06:28 AM.
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Re: Diagnose Latest Build 440 6Pack ?!?!?
[Re: Mopar.70]
#2696374
09/11/19 12:51 AM
09/11/19 12:51 AM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,458
oklahoma
forphorty
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,458
oklahoma
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It will read 36-37 degrees no matter if your at idle or come up in RPM. I think because the light weight springs I had a set of Mr Gasket springs in a single point dist back in the 80s that reached full advance at 1100 or thereabouts.
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Re: Diagnose Latest Build 440 6Pack ?!?!?
[Re: Mopar.70]
#2749342
03/05/20 05:50 PM
03/05/20 05:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 176
Rome, GA
GTXX
member
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member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 176
Rome, GA
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If you're still having problems with this, use the lightest of the stock springs and only one of the lightweight springs and leave the vacuum advance capped off, this should solve the problem of it going to full advance at idle. Set your total at 36-38.
'71 GTX w/Air Grabber, Super Trak Pak, Spoiler Pkg. been apart for 22 years, thinking it's time to do something about that....
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Re: Diagnose Latest Build 440 6Pack ?!?!?
[Re: stumpy]
#2749350
03/05/20 06:26 PM
03/05/20 06:26 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,512
God's Country Maryland
GODSCOUNTRY340
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,512
God's Country Maryland
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I would try setting the timing at 18* at idle with the vacuum advance disconnected and the vacuum line plugged. Stumpy is right on, that cam needs to be advanced at idle. If it then has too much total advance you'll need to restrict that with the slots in the distributor (usually by shortening them by welding and filing until you get the desired total advance)
I love the smell of Deer guts in the morning, it smells like... VICTORY!
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Re: Diagnose Latest Build 440 6Pack ?!?!?
[Re: GODSCOUNTRY340]
#2749396
03/05/20 08:13 PM
03/05/20 08:13 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,314
Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,314
Prospect, PA
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.......that cam needs to be advanced at idle.......
Is that what you meant to say? If so, you might want to add some clarification for the OP.
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