Electrical upgrades
#2730943
01/07/20 10:19 PM
01/07/20 10:19 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,700 Wichita
GY3
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master
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Going to do the bypass of the bulkhead with a 10 gauge wire and fusible link.
I keep seeing conflicting info. on the best place to run the wire from the BAT terminal on the alternator.
Some say the relay, some say stud on the starter and some say the positive post on the battery. While I realize all those locations lead back to the battery, is there one location that is better than another?
'63 Dodge 330 11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs. 10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.
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Re: Electrical upgrades
[Re: GY3]
#2730963
01/07/20 11:12 PM
01/07/20 11:12 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,872 Pattison Texas
CSK
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I ran an 8 gauge to the stud on the starter relay, from the 130 amp alt, works great on my 68 Charger.
Last edited by csk; 01/07/20 11:14 PM.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Electrical upgrades
[Re: CSK]
#2730978
01/08/20 12:04 AM
01/08/20 12:04 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,692 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
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Posts: 11,692
Fulton County, PA
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I'm assuming rear mount battery. If it doesn't need a legal, functional master switch, I would want to keep it short and run it to the closest terminal stud for the main battery cable - starter relay, junction block, etc. Not the starter to avoid clutter & hot pipes, not all the way to the trunk to avoid that long run (voltage drop). If it has a master switch that you want to work correctly - run it to the battery side stud on the switch or the battery itself and consider going up a size because of the distance.
Last edited by CMcAllister; 01/08/20 12:06 AM.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Electrical upgrades
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2730979
01/08/20 12:13 AM
01/08/20 12:13 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,700 Wichita
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I'm assuming rear mount battery. If it doesn't need a legal, functional master switch, I would want to keep it short and run it to the closest terminal stud for the main battery cable - starter relay, junction block, etc. Not the starter to avoid clutter & hot pipes, not all the way to the trunk to avoid that long run (voltage drop). If it has a master switch that you want to work correctly - run it to the battery side stud on the switch or the battery itself and consider going up a size because of the distance. No, battery is still up front in the stock location.
'63 Dodge 330 11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs. 10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.
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Re: Electrical upgrades
[Re: GY3]
#2730987
01/08/20 12:53 AM
01/08/20 12:53 AM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,080 CA
crackedback
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CA
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When I do the wire arounds I sell, I do them to attach at the starter relay. Make sure the feed wire back to battery is in good shape.
Run min. 8ga wire and 12ga fusible link. The factory wire is 10ga IIRC.
Just my 2 cents
Last edited by crackedback; 01/08/20 12:54 AM.
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Re: Electrical upgrades
[Re: dvw]
#2731072
01/08/20 12:40 PM
01/08/20 12:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,035 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
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I actually removed the terminals at the bulk head. That's where the problem is. Drill thru the bulkhead and run the 10 gauge right thru the holes previously occupied by terminals. Leave the wire a little long on the interior side before splicing to the dash harness. That way if you have to remove the harness there is enough length to resplice. I've run a 110 amp alternator in my Challenger this way 16 years with no issue. Doug That is probably the best way to do it right there! I got rid of all the factory wiring except for lights and wipers, but if I had retained more I would do exactly what DVW said. I would feel better with a circuit breaker or a fuse than a fusable link though, that is just me.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: Electrical upgrades
[Re: Bad340fish]
#2731085
01/08/20 01:57 PM
01/08/20 01:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,692 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
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Posts: 11,692
Fulton County, PA
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I prefer a fuse to a fusible link. Reliable circuit protection. A simple fuse replacement as opposed to a harness repair in the event of a problem. MIDI style fuses are available in the amp rating you desire.
I would also be inclined to cut and terminate the alternator power line to the battery terminal on the starter relay, and continue the run to the interior of the car from that point. Not remove the power feed through the dash, but give the alternator feed line a more direct path to the battery.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Electrical upgrades
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2731159
01/08/20 04:36 PM
01/08/20 04:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
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I would also be inclined to cut and terminate the alternator power line to the battery terminal on the starter relay, and continue the run to the interior of the car from that point. Not remove the power feed through the dash, but give the alternator feed line a more direct path to the battery.
That's the plan!
'63 Dodge 330 11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs. 10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.
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Re: Electrical upgrades
[Re: GY3]
#2731272
01/08/20 10:06 PM
01/08/20 10:06 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,292 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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Last edited by Cab_Burge; 01/08/20 10:09 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Electrical upgrades
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2731290
01/08/20 11:33 PM
01/08/20 11:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,692 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
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the tech told me to use a #4 gauge wire That's used for battery cable on a lot of cars. Depending on the length of the run.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Electrical upgrades
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2731313
01/09/20 03:39 AM
01/09/20 03:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,122 Auburn WA
Dave_J
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I ran a 6 gauge from my Alt to the Starter relay lug. All my battery cables are 2 gauge. I am one of the 'Amp' meter by-passers.
Retired, US ARMY 1973-1994 ASE mechanic, Electrical 1994-1997 Retired GTE/VERIZON/FRONTIER 1997-2015
Posting cheap tech help (CRAP) here since Nov 97, 1000's of posts, some may be good.
03 Suzuki Burgman 650(Burger King) Scooter 65 Formula S Cuda 78 Little Red Express Truck 98 Buick Regal (wifes car)
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Re: Electrical upgrades
[Re: B Dartman]
#2731365
01/09/20 10:50 AM
01/09/20 10:50 AM
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Yo Did same mod to Dart couple years ago when switching to the Denso alternator. Couple key points to note as others posted: 1) Drill out the bulkhead connector and feed the new wires through (eliminates a known problem area) 2) Have a look at the below info regarding "remote voltage sensing" and "by-passing Amp Gauge"; in the case of the Dart installed a terminal post under dash and ran the sensing wire to this location (e.g. may be good to install near MSD box) so that the voltage is being monitored close to where you have the most concern it's maintained. 3) In regards to fuses I'm using blade type fuses (easy to replace/readily avail), but for your race application might want to go with the suggested MIDI. Remote Voltage SensingBy-Passing Amp GaugeSIngle Wire vs. Three Wire Thanks, Bill!
'63 Dodge 330 11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs. 10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.
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Re: Electrical upgrades
[Re: GY3]
#2731382
01/09/20 11:51 AM
01/09/20 11:51 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa.
Mattax
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I keep seeing conflicting info. on the best place to run the wire from the BAT terminal on the alternator. It depends on what is the most important equipment to feed in your setup and use. For example, If the system has had additional electrical items added, such as electric fans, fuel pumps, EFI the situation is different. Or for example if race will be run on battery power, or .. or ... Going to do the bypass of the bulkhead with a 10 gauge wire and fusible link. That would be fine in most cases. The fusible link protects against the battery burning up big wires if any of them are accidently grounded. Keep in mind the battery was not really meant to power the car car after starting. Under normal running conditions the alternator powers the car. That's why the alternator output stud "BATT" was wired to the main splice first on the older cars. In the mid-70s Chrysler started to split the power up on the engine side of the firewall, so there was no longer a single main splice. But the concept remains the same. Power comes from either the alternator or the battery. Whichever one has the higher voltage. If the battery is being run down, then it will draw more current during recharge. Feeding the recharge direct may make sense, as it shortens the route and the connections. Feeding the main splice from the alternator by routing to the battery first creates a longer path with more connections. But in some situations that may not be important.
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Re: Electrical upgrades
[Re: krautrock]
#2731396
01/09/20 12:26 PM
01/09/20 12:26 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa.
Mattax
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Phila. Pa.
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i used 8ga on my truck, alt b+ runs to the lug on the relay, then from there i feed into the cab bypassing the bulkhead (coz it was melted at the terminals). used 12ga fusible wire as well. ordered one of the repro Denso style alternators, just looking for 60amp output, the test sheet shows the alt puts out 120amps at 13.5V...hope my 8ga wire is ok. Actual output from battery or alternator depends on the load. In other words, whatever items are using electricity are primary determiner. The second determiner is the voltage at which the items get the power. For example, if power is provided at 14 Volts while the engine is running. Ignition and field need 4 amps (1960s ignition and alternator) Headlamps and markers draw around 12 amps So driving at night, the alternator output would be 16 amps. The only danger of a high output capability is if the battery is run down. Batteries will draw current for recharging in proportion to the charge state. A fully discharged battery, offered power at 14 Volts, may try to draw 40, 50, 60 amps or more! Most of the factory alternators in the 60s and even 70s couldn't provide that, at least at idle, so the system was somewhat self protecting.
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Re: Electrical upgrades
[Re: Mattax]
#2731400
01/09/20 12:36 PM
01/09/20 12:36 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa.
Mattax
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ithe test sheet shows the alt puts out 120amps at 13.5V PS. If the test was run at 14.5 Volts, max output would have been less than 120. Its not major, but makes it harder to compare. 120 amps x 13.5 V = power. Then divide by 14.5 Volts to get the current and the new voltage. Chrysler's factory specs were done at 15 Volts (see your shop manual), so the output current looks lower when compared to a test made at 13.5 Volts. The shop manual test was also usually done at 1250 rpm, whereas the ratings are usually done at high rpm. Again making it hard to compare. Sometimes the FSM lists both, sometimes not.
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Re: Electrical upgrades
[Re: Mattax]
#2731402
01/09/20 12:43 PM
01/09/20 12:43 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,700 Wichita
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I keep seeing conflicting info. on the best place to run the wire from the BAT terminal on the alternator. It depends on what is the most important equipment to feed in your setup and use. For example, If the system has had additional electrical items added, such as electric fans, fuel pumps, EFI the situation is different. Or for example if race will be run on battery power, or .. or ... Very minimalist setup. Small electric supplemental fuel pump and small nitrous control board. other than that, it is similar to a factory 1963 setup. No stereo, electric fans, fuel injection, etc.
'63 Dodge 330 11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs. 10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.
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