|
Re: Paint job on a budget!?
[Re: 69chargeryeehaa]
#27058
03/10/07 07:14 AM
03/10/07 07:14 AM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
I've read 22 full pages of this discussion and I'm so pumped up now! I'm going to try this on a 1990 Chevy pickup. The body has held up very well because it was not driven much at all in winter, but the paint is pretty oxidized on the top panels and there is surface rust along the bottoms. Before I attempt this, I do have a few questions (hopefully I'm not repeating here...) -If I'm reading it correctly, Rustoleum can be painted directly over rust. Is this true even though it's being thinned a lot with mineral spirits? Will the rust return or bubble up the paint? Am I better off "converting" the rust first with Rust Bullet or an equivalent before topcoating with this method? - It seems that one of the advantages of this method is the paint's ability to "self level". There is surface rust along the bottoms of the panels, but it's not rotted through. Will the paint fill in pit marks/imperfections from the surface rust? -Some people it seems, have had some adhesion problems that appear to be from the prep stage. Am I better off cleaning the panels with an industrial steam cleaner like this http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=8823as opposed to just wiping them down with mineral spirits? - Is there an advantage to using this formula... http://www.rustoleum.com/product.asp?frm_product_id=36&SBL=1as opposed to this one... http://www.rustoleum.com/Product.asp?frm_product_id=18&SBL=1&dds=16Does the first deal with surface rust better? Do both formulas give the desired high gloss shine? -My original color is a dark metallic blue. Does that mean I'm stuck using a dark color because it will bleed through anything lighter? If so, is it unrealistic to go with black due to the fact that this is my first time trying this and black is very unforgiving about imperfections showing up? Just a footnote here... Next to google itself, this is the most useful thing I've ever stumbled onto on the internet. I found this by accident doing a search to see if anyone had painted an entire car with Rust Bullet using rollers, and all I can say is "wow"! This would probably look much better, but I'm still considering going that route depending on how much I have to do with regard to dealing with the surface rust I have. Thank you all so much! 
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!?
#27059
03/10/07 10:34 AM
03/10/07 10:34 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,378
Rancho Cordova, CA
Exit1965
master
|
master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,378
Rancho Cordova, CA
|
The paint will self level in that it will take the shape of the surface underneath it-- it will not cover up any boo-boos so take the time to smooth things out now. I dont recall too many people having adhesion problems recently. I had some a long time ago, but that was just carelessness on my part because I didn't clean the surface much if at all. If you're looking for a high gloss shine, don't forget about the marine polyurethanes. Though recently, I've seen some people post some polished up Rustoleum and I have to say it looks great. Aussie driver has done both marine paint and rustoleum and says the marine paint polishes up better. Pics of both his results look very good. There could be long-term differences with how well those paints hold a shine - hopefully people will soon be able to report on how paint is holding up after 6 mo, 12 mo and beyond. I'm still working on getting my car on the road. I cant wait to see how it looks out there, and will probably tape it up and do another wetsand and 2 more coats once I get it drivable and where I can park it in the sun for awhile. The engine and trans should be installed next weekend, then wiring + exhaust + fuel system.  
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!?
#27060
03/10/07 11:03 AM
03/10/07 11:03 AM
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 58
MD, USA
v8mirage
member
|
member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 58
MD, USA
|
Quadrajet,
If you have rust, I would first sand it to remove as much as you can and smooth it out. My car had surface rust on the roof and hatch. I used an angle grinder with a cup brush to get as much of the rust out as I could. That unfortunately left pits where the rust had dug in. Then I used Rust bullet with a roller to convert the rust and fill in the pits. The rust bullet didn't level all that well and had a good amount of orange peel to it so I sanded it so that it was a bit smoother. Then I went ahead and painted using rustoleum.
It is VERY important to start with as clean a surface as you can when painting. I used Super Clean to wash my car to make sure it was Clean before I started the painting the first time. After that I have just been wiping it down with MS before I start.
Bottom line is, if you have rust you should treat it with something, (sandblasting, rustbullet, navel jelly, etc) before you paint it for the best results.
Glad to have you aboard!!! Good luck and post pics, we love to see other roller jobs!!!
gerbs
Last edited by v8mirage; 03/10/07 01:31 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!?
[Re: v8mirage]
#27064
03/10/07 02:53 PM
03/10/07 02:53 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Thanks for the welcome guys.... V8 Mirage, it looks like you basically used the Rustbullet as a primer of sorts and then topcoated using this method to get the color you want. Looks good! Sounds like the best route to go for someone like me who has some surface rust on the panels. I'll probably use the rust bullet, then fill in the tiny pits with some glazing putty, then go from there. I found an answer for my farm equipment paint question on the rustoleum site, it says:
"What is the difference between the Stops Rust paints and the Farm Equipment paints? Both products offer the same rust preventive and weather resistant qualities. The Farm Equipment colors are designed to offer visual color matches to popular equipment colors...so now that leaves me with another question. Exit1965 mentioned marine coatings. I assume you mean these - http://www.rustoleum.com/product.asp?frm_product_id=305&SBL=1Is this a better choice than the standard rustoleum for durability? Also, is the method for applying it the same? Thanks again.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!?
#27065
03/10/07 03:46 PM
03/10/07 03:46 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 58
MD, USA
v8mirage
member
|
member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 58
MD, USA
|
Quad,
Some of the marine paints that have been used have been Brightside by Interlux, I can't remember the others.
Yes I did use the RustBullet as a primer, on the roof at least. Places on the car where the old paint was in good shape, I didn't add any primer, I just sanded well, and painted.
Gerbs
Last edited by v8mirage; 03/10/07 04:01 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!?
[Re: v8mirage]
#27066
03/10/07 04:30 PM
03/10/07 04:30 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 891
wisconsin
1BAD68
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 891
wisconsin
|
ok here is my attempt at it. Rustoelum gloss black 50/50 mix w/mineral spirits. It went on good but with zillions of little bubbles, then it ran in some places but I just kept going. When I got done with the 1/4 panel I noticed the bubbles were pretty much dissapearing and the runs were self leveling, so I went and rolled the whole car, hopefully I can get a second coat on before the end of the day. 
Last edited by 1BAD68; 03/10/07 04:32 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!?
[Re: 1BAD68]
#27067
03/10/07 05:10 PM
03/10/07 05:10 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
68, if that is only 1 coat my opinion would be that you're applying it too thick. Forget about trying to get full color coverage in 1 coat. If it's running you're not going to have a flat surface for the next layer. I did the same thing & wound up wetsanding most of it back after it dried. Actually it worked out OK as it was kind of a combo guide coat to show imperfections in flatness & a primer base to get a uniform color underneath everything. This is a great method but for me (& evidently a few others  ) the hardest part is patience. Thin coats. Several thin coats. I was dying to drive it & show off my results after a few coats began to hint at the wetlook glossy outcome that is possible. Take your time. PS - I LOVE your car!! 383? 440?
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#27070
03/11/07 01:26 AM
03/11/07 01:26 AM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
Quote:
I've been through Potomac quite a few times...
Maybe next time I'm down in Hamilton, I can stop by and see your project. The pics look great.
Quote:
The ammount of airborne material from rolling or brushing has got to be just about zero. As far as I'm concered, the precautions I took are overkill. But, it is of course up to the individual painter to do what you're comfortable with.
Interlux Paint (maker of Brightside) has a video of a guy painting their two-part "Perfection" paint with a simple paper dust mask:
http://links.streamingwizard.com/yachtpaint/9-04/WMV/perfection-usa4-bb-wmv.asx
And another video with NO protection: http://links.streamingwizard.com/yachtpaint/11-06/US_Perfection-3-paint.asx
Here is the MSDS for Interlux Perfection: http://www.yachtpaint.com/msds_pdf/YGB001_usa_ENG_E1.pdf
It contains "hexamethylene di-isocyanates." I looked up the info on that chemical and found this: http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts120.html
Apparently it doesn't evaporate well into the air.
I also found the MSDS for the Van Sickle enamel hardener: http://www.vansicklepaint.com/7019X.PDF
The number one ingredient by weight is the Isocyanate. They don't say exactly what kind of isocyanates they are using ... it's listed as a "trade secret." But ... they do give its vapor pressure as 5.2 mm Hg, which is much lower than atmospheric pressure. That means it's not likely to evaporate into the atmosphere.
I also called the local OSHA office, and they said that the primary danger of isocyanates is in spraying -- breathing the fine droplets. They recommended good ventilation and wearing a respirator.
So ... I'm thinking maybe you are right about this. Perhaps the primary danger for isocyanates is for spraying. Rolling should be fine IF YOU USE A PROPER ORGANIC VAPOR RESPIRATOR. Make sure the respirator fits tightly around your mouth and nose. If you have a beard, that creates special problems. Some old pro painters use vaseline to help seal around the edges of the respirator. Also, using goggles and gloves is a good idea. That's what I intend to do anyway.
 Man...looking at that MSDS, that stuff is pretty toxic. I can't believe they apply it without some sort of protection...talk about a lawsuit waiting to happen!
After the results I've had with the hardener, I'm convinced it's the way to make this process work. When I do have more time (whenever that is) I'm going to do some more work with it. I've got another spare fender (the other one off the truck) and I'm going to try and paint a bigger area and see what happens. Safety shouldn't be an issue, as long as (like you said) you wear the proper respirator.
And yea, let me know when you'll be in town. My schedule is...pretty busy, but I can see if I'll be around.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!?
#27071
03/11/07 01:43 AM
03/11/07 01:43 AM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
Thanks for the welcome guys....
V8 Mirage, it looks like you basically used the Rustbullet as a primer of sorts and then topcoated using this method to get the color you want. Looks good! Sounds like the best route to go for someone like me who has some surface rust on the panels. I'll probably use the rust bullet, then fill in the tiny pits with some glazing putty, then go from there.
If the rust doesn't go through the panel, I'd just hit it with an 80 grit sanding disk and get it all out. Finish it with some filler, sand it and paint it. I usually use rust stopping products on things like car frames, or areas that are too hard to get at with a sander or grinder. Ospho is my preference, but most (if not all) work the same. They use phosphoric acid to chemically convert iron oxide to (inert) iron phosphate.
If the pits are too deep for a sander, an angle grinder (or dremmel tool for small ones) will buzz them right out. Put a skim coat of a filler like "Half-Time" on there and you'll be done pretty quick.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!?
[Re: pdqvsix]
#27072
03/11/07 07:57 AM
03/11/07 07:57 AM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
... For those who are still thinking of doing this just take your time and apply the paint very thin "and i do mean thin" and you will save a lot of time wet sanding. The thinner you apply it the better off you will be and wait at least 8 hours before doing the second coat.
I do see how the thin-ness of each application is a key point. As 69Charger originally pointed out, you don't begin to actually see your paint take color until about the 4th coat. Being a first timer at this, am I better off not trying to repaint the vehicle the same color it already is? Will doing this make it harder to see and "read" the paint?
The truck is currently a navy blue color. If I change colors, I'd really prefer to go lighter with something like Solar Yellow or Orange for two reasons - 1.I like those colors, they get attention, and 2.Lighter colors tend to be more forgiving as far as bodywork showing through. If I'm better off with a color change, can I go that light or is the blue base going to bleed through too much?
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!?
#27073
03/11/07 09:50 AM
03/11/07 09:50 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 30
Ohio
pdqvsix
member
|
member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 30
Ohio
|
The truck is currently a navy blue color. If I change colors, I'd really prefer to go lighter with something like Solar Yellow or Orange for two reasons - 1.I like those colors, they get attention, and 2.Lighter colors tend to be more forgiving as far as bodywork showing through. If I'm better off with a color change, can I go that light or is the blue base going to bleed through too much?
My car was red when i started doing this roller painting and i painted it rustoleum gloss black at first then switched to the rustoleum gloss white and haven't seen any bleed through. This method is just too easy. I may paint the car black again before the end of summer. 
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!?
[Re: pdqvsix]
#27074
03/11/07 01:39 PM
03/11/07 01:39 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Thin to win! I started painting my 62 galaxie. Started with the roof as it's a two tone car. Using rustoleum professional gloss white. I cut it about 30% with mineral spirits and rung the roller out pretty well per 69dart's (?) advice.
This worked pretty well as long as I kept the roller fairly dry. I think a light touch works well as you don't ring out the ends of the roller in streaks that are thicker. I went back over it with the roller to knock down the bubbles.
Verrrry tempting to try to get more coverage out the roller than you should. It only leads to more high spots and orange peel, I think.
I jsut don't think you can put thin the paint too much or put it on in too thin a coat.
Now back to wet sanding my high spots and going back with coat three a even a little thinner.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!?
#27076
03/11/07 03:11 PM
03/11/07 03:11 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,405
Southern, Ca.
69DartGT
moparts member
|
moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,405
Southern, Ca.
|
When I did my truck we were having some nice warm days, the paint felt dry in about two hours but I waited for at least 24 hours before the next coat. Its easy to do but IMHO don't get in a hurry and try to do the job in a day regardless of what type of paint you are using, you took all this time for prep, now do the same for paint. Just my 
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!?
[Re: 69DartGT]
#27077
03/11/07 08:28 PM
03/11/07 08:28 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Hello-
I too have been spending a lot of time in the last few days reading this whole post. I was convinced from the first time I saw charger's car pic. Some of you guys have really done a fantastic job.
Here's my question- My son is away on spring break this week, and I was thinking of trying to paint his 91 f-150 before he gets back. I don;t think I have enough time given what I've read so far, but I was trying to see if there is a way to speed up the process without serious consequences to the final outcome. Understand that right now the paint is pretty much full coverage in a very dull navy blue, and peeling in a few spots.
I would only have the evenings after work to accomplish anything. Could I spray bomb the first few coats and then go with a roll on, or ?
Anyway, i know the established process works, I'd just like to see if there is a way to speed it up. Thoughts??
|
|
|
|
|
