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904 clutches and frictions #2573700
11/04/18 12:59 AM
11/04/18 12:59 AM
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hysteric Offline OP
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Pulled the trans down further.

Steels:

904 steels and frictions resized.jpg
Re: 904 clutches and frictions [Re: hysteric] #2573701
11/04/18 01:00 AM
11/04/18 01:00 AM
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hysteric Offline OP
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Some of the frictions seemed gritty to the touch when i ran my fingers over them.

Frictions

904 steels and friction resized.jpg
Re: 904 clutches and frictions [Re: hysteric] #2573706
11/04/18 01:10 AM
11/04/18 01:10 AM
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Michigan
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Been slipping. The gritty frictions means they have been over heated.

I replied to your PM with other possibilities.

Last edited by Transman; 11/04/18 04:53 AM.
Re: 904 clutches and frictions [Re: hysteric] #2573768
11/04/18 08:52 AM
11/04/18 08:52 AM
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Australia
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Mcode69 Offline
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Is your kickdown fitted and working correctly, if not you can have that sort of damage in days.

Re: 904 clutches and frictions [Re: hysteric] #2573773
11/04/18 09:32 AM
11/04/18 09:32 AM
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Kickdown was fitted and working to the best of my knowledge

Re: 904 clutches and frictions [Re: hysteric] #2573788
11/04/18 10:33 AM
11/04/18 10:33 AM
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Ambridge, Pa.
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rickraw Offline
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Detent could be out of adjustment, cut seal, worn pump causing low presure. Check everything.

Re: 904 clutches and frictions [Re: rickraw] #2573864
11/04/18 01:35 PM
11/04/18 01:35 PM
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Missouri
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jwb123 Offline
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First check line pressure with a gauge, it must be right to specs. Remember if it has a shift kit, call the maker and find out what they recommend. The other issue is overlap. With a chrysler trans the 2nd gear band must release and then the high clutch is applied. So you always have a brief time when the band and clutch are both applied at the same time, the timing of this event is critical to keep the trans clutches or band from burning. Band apply lever ratio, band adjustment, valvebody modifications like orfice size in the plate, line pressure, all control this event. Thats why sometimes when you buy a shift kit, or valvebody they may recommend a differant apply lever ratio, or band adjustment.

Re: 904 clutches and frictions [Re: hysteric] #2573986
11/04/18 05:41 PM
11/04/18 05:41 PM
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MI, usa
dvw Offline
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Doesn't look that much out of the ordinary. How long had it been together? what kind of power. What valve body? May be time to step up to Altos, Kolenes and and a 5th friction.
Doug

Re: 904 clutches and frictions [Re: hysteric] #2573997
11/04/18 06:01 PM
11/04/18 06:01 PM
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McGregor,Iowa 52157
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500ciDuster Offline
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I 2nd the overlap possibility

Re: 904 clutches and frictions [Re: hysteric] #2574056
11/04/18 08:17 PM
11/04/18 08:17 PM
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Trans was built to take 450 HP. Valve body new and was the trans builders modded unit. I haven't pulled it apart to see what he used but will do next.

4.2 lever and when I returned the box the Trans builder said the adjustment looked fine.

Trans was built in 2012 but has only done about 1K miles and 5 street meets 21 passes in total at our local track.

Now for more pics, direct drum steels on the left:

904 steels comparison resized.jpg
Re: 904 clutches and frictions [Re: hysteric] #2574065
11/04/18 08:36 PM
11/04/18 08:36 PM
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Frictions comparison

904 frictions comparison resized.jpg
Re: 904 clutches and frictions [Re: hysteric] #2574066
11/04/18 08:37 PM
11/04/18 08:37 PM
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Posts: 472
Minnesota, USA
humpty Offline
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Any chance it was simply run low on fluid?

Re: 904 clutches and frictions [Re: hysteric] #2574069
11/04/18 08:46 PM
11/04/18 08:46 PM
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Not likely at all.

Here is where it gets interesting. I spoke to my machinist about my problem and said he knows another racer who bought a box from the same guy and then had problems with it he couldn't get right. I'm sure he said it had a line pressure problem which A&A helped to sort out. I'll try and talk to the guy and find out what it was.

I'm going to do the Fairbanks stage 3 kit and manualize it.

Re: 904 clutches and frictions [Re: hysteric] #2574094
11/04/18 10:09 PM
11/04/18 10:09 PM
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MI, usa
dvw Offline
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So if I have this correct it is the the direct clutch, not the high/reverse clutch that is burnt. To me this is either loss of pressure in the direct clutch feed circuit or some type of mechanical bind with the direct clutch piston. This clutch is stationary applied and shouldn't slip at this power level.
Doug

Re: 904 clutches and frictions [Re: hysteric] #2574135
11/04/18 11:09 PM
11/04/18 11:09 PM
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Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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Which clutch pack was it? Are those the frictions that came out of the trans? I assume the frictions on the right came out of the same drum? Everyone's assuming a high gear failure.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: 904 clutches and frictions [Re: hysteric] #2574149
11/04/18 11:22 PM
11/04/18 11:22 PM
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hysteric Offline OP
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Both sets of friction came out of the same trans.

Are they not the same clutches and steels for both drums?

Re: 904 clutches and frictions [Re: hysteric] #2574170
11/04/18 11:54 PM
11/04/18 11:54 PM
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Michigan
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“Most” of the time the rear clutch pack has smooth frictions while the front clutch pack has waffle or grooved frictions.

Which frictions came out of your front drum and which out of the rear drum?

Re: 904 clutches and frictions [Re: hysteric] #2574182
11/05/18 12:20 AM
11/05/18 12:20 AM
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Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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Forward clutch plates are .063. High plates are .087, and they are interchangeable.. Most of the time forward plates are used in both drums which allows you to use 5 in the high drum with a different snap ring, thin steels and/or by machining the pressure plate. Factory forward plates were usually smooth with a hi friction material since it just needed to hold. Measure them. Plates on the right look like high gear plates out of rebuild kit. With a performance/race unit, we just use the good plates in both drums.

I would have thought the corresponding frictions would look worse after seeing the steels.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: 904 clutches and frictions [Re: A727Tflite] #2574214
11/05/18 01:12 AM
11/05/18 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted By Transman
“Most” of the time the rear clutch pack has smooth frictions while the front clutch pack has waffle or grooved frictions.

Which frictions came out of your front drum and which out of the rear drum?


I think the burnt ones came out of the direct drum. But not 100% certain as i didn't take any pics but only from memory.

Re: 904 clutches and frictions [Re: dvw] #2574447
11/05/18 03:38 PM
11/05/18 03:38 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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Originally Posted By dvw
So if I have this correct it is the the direct clutch, not the high/reverse clutch that is burnt.


"Direct" and "High/Reverse" are same thing, the front clutch; this is what happens when people use non-Mopar terminology.

The factory simply calls the clutches front and rear but when people use the GM/Ford terms "forward", "direct", high/reverse" it causes confusion.

Stepping down off soapbox.


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