Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: 69chargeryeehaa]
#25638
08/28/06 11:27 PM
08/28/06 11:27 PM
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I painted my car with Rustoleum 'gloss white' in March...althought I repainted the car, the door jambs and inner fenders still have the Rustoleum paint. The funny thing is, it is now canvas/egg shell color. Elements?? the thing hasn't been out of the garage!! I wouldn't recommend this stuff to my worst enemy...
Also remember, if you paint with Rustoleum you can forget about ever using 'real' auto paint without stripping this junk completely off because it will not sand...stuff peels like latex after almost six months drying time...Chuck
that's wierd, chuck, i can honestly say i've had nothing but the best results with tremclad, there must have been something either wrong with the paint or the prep, sorry to hear that, but the tremclad at least would absoultly never, ever peel or have adhesion issues, it's the exact opposite from my expirence.
Yes, Chuck, you've been complaining since the first week about your Rustoleum paint job going sour, yet Ricklandia's mower has done just fine in the Florida sun for 3 months? Can't remember, but did you use Rustoleum's primer which the rest of us didn't bother with?
George
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: ONEBADBIRD]
#25639
08/28/06 11:37 PM
08/28/06 11:37 PM
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I think the the car you are reffering to is the black miata that Ausie Driver did? If so, he did not use Rustolean paint from what I recall reading from the many posts. He used some other paint that was available locally to him at the time. It wasn't rusto. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I think the best way to go about doing this roller job to make it look like a SS is to paint the car WHITE with many thin layers sanding in between and then applying a clear cloat to top it off. I think that's the route I'm going to take. I'm also going to be using the original recipe of Tremclad instead of Bridghtside/Rusto paint. It seems Charger has proven its durability. The only thing that scares me is that the paint takes a long time to harden and its easy to scratch off. I think applying thin coats and allowing adequate time between each coat to dry is the key to avoid the paint from becoming "scratchable." I think I will allow each layer to dry for 2 days until the next one is applied. This should be sufficient drying time. Quote:
What happened to Ausie Driver's car is what scares me about using the rusto paint. Whan I saw that I was sad for you man that stinks. Maybe the brightside paint which is made for using on pleasure boats and surfaces that are always soaking wet might deal with this water issue better. It almost seems to me that a clear coat would be the thing to keep the paint from going dull or changing a color shade all together say from (black to grey) or (red to pinkish) when getting rained on. Like I said maybe the brightside is the way to go I don't know. I have seen this paint have color fade once before. When my dad painted his 14 foot jon boat with (satin)forest green rusto. paint. It rained and the water sat on the boat in spots say overnight and it turned a lighter green where the puddles layed. So maybe a test is in order for me to try rusto with clear coat , brightside with no clear on some sheetmetal. Let them withstand the elements for a while and see which one comes out on top before I tackle my whole car. So when the paint job is all said and done I can rest at night. Knowing if my car sat in the sun for the day or got wet from the rain I won't have wasted my time and can get a couple years out of this paint job. Like I've said before I think this idea is just great. I just want it to work for me 110% like it did for 69charger. Heck maybe he can just paint (roller) my ride for me for say $5,000!!!!!! OUCH so much for "paint job on a budget" cheers fellas (have fun on your projects I know I am.)JAY
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#25640
08/28/06 11:48 PM
08/28/06 11:48 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,378 Rancho Cordova, CA
Exit1965
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Welcome back Chuck It is good to have someone cautioning others, however the technique is evolving and there are already people who have posted good success stories with pics to back them up. I would think that if something did go wrong after a few months or weeks, they wouldn't mind coming back and updating us, saving us all from this most horrendous practice of painting cars with rustoleum. What you're describing is the yellowing that some oil based enamels get without exposure to sunlight. When I asked rustoleum about it, they said it was not a problem (as I read it was with Glidden paint). Though the Almond color paint I first started experimenting was brownish to begin with, I haven't noticed the test pieces of it being any more yellowed after sitting in the garage for more than 6 months. It's a light enough color that some yellowing might take place if the paint were prone to that. As horribly as Rustoleum messed up your car, do you have any pics of it to share? Or pics of these yellowing door jambs? Also, you keep saying that you can't put regular car paint over rustoleum, but 69charger has said that he has first hand experience painting over it (OK, Tremclad) with no problems. Is your experience first hand or hearsay?
Last edited by Exit1965; 08/28/06 11:49 PM.
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#25641
08/28/06 11:53 PM
08/28/06 11:53 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,378 Rancho Cordova, CA
Exit1965
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Also Chuck,if it peels like latex after 6 months then you have a surface prep issue at the very least.
I can tell you this. I HAVE put this paint over stuff that makes it peel off-- when I was spraying test pattern with my HVLP gun before painting my door jambs, I sprayed over an area that was painted with the rustoleum clear coat in a rattle can. That paint (over the clear coat) I can peel off pretty easily, it does not seem to adhere to that.
Whatever you painted over was not well prepared for adhesion. Though I have stated that the paint is soft/scratchable for some time, I do experience that it gets harder and harder with time, and would never be EASY to scratch off after a month or 2, much less 6 months. Surface prep problem.
Last edited by Exit1965; 08/28/06 11:55 PM.
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: Exit1965]
#25642
08/29/06 12:05 AM
08/29/06 12:05 AM
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#25643
08/29/06 05:15 AM
08/29/06 05:15 AM
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Quote:
I think the the car you are reffering to is the black miata that Ausie Driver did? If so, he did not use Rustolean paint from what I recall reading from the many posts. He used some other paint that was available locally to him at the time. It wasn't rusto. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
You're right on the money mate. I used an Australian paint called Tremco Metal Armour and it just didn't hold up to the elements. I'm not too fussed about it not working out well though. In a few weeks I'm going to re-paint the car again and because the Tremco stuffed up I'm going to get the chance to fix all of the little bits that didn't work out very well the first time.
In the mean time I have been polishing up my detailing skills and when I'm finished with the car it will look immaculate.
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: Exit1965]
#25644
08/29/06 07:13 AM
08/29/06 07:13 AM
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Posts: 575 Canada
Marq
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Quote:
Also Chuck,if it peels like latex after 6 months then you have a surface prep issue at the very least.
I had the very same thought. And that might also explain the discoloring that he experienced with his white paint job.
When he mentioned his white paint job 'yellowed' my first thought was that 'something' on the body was 'bleeding' into his fresh paint. The solvents of the fresh paint job were causing 'whatever' was on the lower surface to be released and affect the fresh white paint.
After all, the area of the car where he was experiencing these discolorations were the nooks and crannies like the door jambs etc. These are probably the most UNLIKELY spots on the car where proper surface preparation would happen. People simply don't go in to those nooks and crannies to sand down those surface or wipe them down prior to painting.
I didn't notice him mentioining these discoloration problems appearing on the body - because he apparently removed the body paint and it never got to the discoloration stage.
And the fact that he mentions the paint peeled also backs up the apparent problem with the subsurface not being prepped properly. There obviously had to be something between the subsurface and the fresh layer of paint.
The last thing that I really don't understand about Chucks problem 'paint job' is how he says that the paint can't be removed easily or creates a mess when you attempt to remove it. My experience with the Tremclad - and the Brightside - is that it HARDENS - and that it removes JUST AS EASILY as any other paint job WITH A SANDER. The stuff sands off without any problem.
HOWEVER... if he slathered the paint on thick I can see that it might not have hardened when he attempted to remove it. YES... I can see 'soft paint' being a '[Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean]' to remove. It would be a pain to sand off and it would be a paint to sandblast or beadblast off. But that is a problem with trying to remove the paint prior to it having hardened - and that is the same problem you would encounter if a professional shop had just sprayed the car and you rushed in there and started trying to sand it off - soft paint is a '[Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean]' no matter what type of paint you use.
Chuck likes to challenge how many 'successful' paint jobs there have been. But I think the shoe should be on the other foot... and we should be actually asking 'how many other tales of woe - like Chucks' have there been ? The tales of woe are few and far between here. One would expect that people who have destroyed their car bodies or had horror stories would have been lining up here to share their experiences and problems. YET... instead we hear the success stories.
It all reminds me of the mother who is watching a parade of soldiers marching by and she proudly proclaims that the soldier who is marching 'out of step' with all the other soldiers is her son and she can't understand why he is the only one marching correctly and that all the other soldiers are the ones that are out of step...
Dunno...
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: Marq]
#25645
08/29/06 10:23 AM
08/29/06 10:23 AM
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Marq could you point me in the right direction to the pads you used with what wax.. I've never polished a car before. I read the link you posted and decided and bought a porter cable 7424.
Forgive me for sounding like I havn't done research. I looked around a bit and every site I saw was trying to sell me a different pad and they all had different names for them.
Which pad did you use to apply the compounding and for the wax. Is that all you did?
So after my last coat is wetsanded to 2000ish I just compound the car and then wax?
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: ONEBADBIRD]
#25648
08/29/06 01:50 PM
08/29/06 01:50 PM
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Quote:
What happened to Ausie Driver's car is what scares me about using the rusto paint. Whan I saw that I was sad for you man that stinks. Maybe the brightside paint which is made for using on pleasure boats and surfaces that are always soaking wet might deal with this water issue better. It almost seems to me that a clear coat would be the thing to keep the paint from going dull or changing a color shade all together say from (black to grey) or (red to pinkish) when getting rained on. Like I said maybe the brightside is the way to go I don't know. I have seen this paint have color fade once before. When my dad painted his 14 foot jon boat with (satin)forest green rusto. paint. It rained and the water sat on the boat in spots say overnight and it turned a lighter green where the puddles layed. So maybe a test is in order for me to try rusto with clear coat , brightside with no clear on some sheetmetal. Let them withstand the elements for a while and see which one comes out on top before I tackle my whole car. So when the paint job is all said and done I can rest at night. Knowing if my car sat in the sun for the day or got wet from the rain I won't have wasted my time and can get a couple years out of this paint job. Like I've said before I think this idea is just great. I just want it to work for me 110% like it did for 69charger. Heck maybe he can just paint (roller) my ride for me for say $5,000!!!!!! OUCH so much for "paint job on a budget" cheers fellas (have fun on your projects I know I am.)JAY
Wow dude...guess you better stay away from PPG Bright Blue Poly. Yeah those spray on paints are scary. I did my engine compartment in the driveway. A rain storm blew in about two hours later and the next day I had milky white spots where the rain had beaded up. If only it had been rusto paint...I could have blamed it on that.
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: Exit1965]
#25649
08/29/06 04:21 PM
08/29/06 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Welcome back Chuck It is good to have someone cautioning others, however the technique is evolving and there are already people who have posted good success stories with pics to back them up. I would think that if something did go wrong after a few months or weeks, they wouldn't mind coming back and updating us, saving us all from this most horrendous practice of painting cars with rustoleum.
(... removed text...)
As horribly as Rustoleum messed up your car, do you have any pics of it to share? Or pics of these yellowing door jambs?
Also, you keep saying that you can't put regular car paint over rustoleum, but 69charger has said that he has first hand experience painting over it (OK, Tremclad) with no problems. Is your experience first hand or hearsay?
Chuck's complaints were still niggling in the back of my head this morning, so I jumped back to his posts from March (there were even pictures!). I think the biggest clue is that he used Sherwin-Williams paint rather than Rustoleum and thinned at 10:1 rather than closer to 2:1 or 3:1 which seem to be common values for "Rustoleum Professional" or "Stops Rust".
Here's what Chuck wrote back in March:
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Ok, now a few insights:
1.) The paint suggested very early in these postings was called "acrylic/enamel paint"...this is not exactly what you're looking for. The proper paint type is "aklyd enamel". The "acrylic/enamel" is water based, and that isn't what you want (read about "acrylic/enamel" on this web page). As a matter of fact, you do not necessarily have to buy "rustoleum". I bought mine from the local "Do-It-Center" and it is the house brand made by Sherwin Williams...worked fine. The easiest way to tell if you have the right thing is to look at the directions and see what "clean-up" instructions are...if it says "clean with Mineral Spirits", than you have the right stuff. Many people make compatible brands.
2.) It may also say in the instructions that you do not have to thin...in this case, you have to thin. My ratio was 10:1, worked great. It will bubble and look "orange peely" at first, but relax, the paint self-levels as it drys.
3.) At first, I understood that we could use a $20 orbital buffer/polisher like you buy a Wal-Mart, etc...Although it seems to have worked for others, it did NOT work for me. It would not eliminate the scratches from the final 1500 grit wetsanding. Luckily, I had a 7" ELECTRONIC POLISHER/SANDER just like the one on this web page. It worked wonders!!
Will write more later if I think of anything. If you have questions about my procedure, I will do my best to help...thanks guys
George
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#25650
08/29/06 04:28 PM
08/29/06 04:28 PM
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Well as long as long as we're painting cars with boat paint...how about some aircraft roll on paint. A few colors, primers, and clear coat.
http://www.aircraftfinishing.com/metal-aircraft.htm
And they also have an EPA friendly rust/corrosion coating that hardens like ceramic.
http://www.aircraftfinishing.com/evershield.htm
Nice colors, but prices of $200-400/gallon <cough>. Interlux Brightside, though limited in color pallette, seems a better price choice.
George
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#25651
08/29/06 06:57 PM
08/29/06 06:57 PM
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Found this on the Price Markdown shelf in Home Depot. It's not poly.
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#25652
08/29/06 07:10 PM
08/29/06 07:10 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575 Canada
Marq
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Quote:
Well as long as long as we're painting cars with boat paint...how about some aircraft roll on paint. A few colors, primers, and clear coat.
http://www.aircraftfinishing.com/metal-aircraft.htm
I had read a number of articles about the aircraft chaps 'rolling' their paint - the same way that we and the boaters are doing it.
The only problem with the aircraft paint is that IT IS MUCHO EXPENSIVE.... and in the same category of cost as some of the more premium automotive paints. Which would sort of defeat our intention of finding a relatively cheap way to lay a reasonably good looking skin on to our cars.
The other downside of aircraft paint is : AVAILABILITY... in that the Tremclad/Rustoleum can be picked up in quite a few local stores... and the marine paint can be picked up at any marine supplier. But aircraft paint almost always needs to be ordered and shipped.
But I do agree that it is an interesting paint - and they do offer a metalic gold that they claim you can see your reflection mirrored in
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we
[Re: Exit1965]
#25654
08/29/06 08:53 PM
08/29/06 08:53 PM
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for non flat panels instead of using the small roller what should i use?
ps. 69charger = cheap paint GOD
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Re: we
#25655
08/29/06 08:57 PM
08/29/06 08:57 PM
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for non flat panels instead of using the small roller what should i use?
I think Foam Rollers. Has anyone ever use a Badger Hair Brush?
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Re: we
#25656
08/29/06 09:17 PM
08/29/06 09:17 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575 Canada
Marq
mopar addict
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Joined: May 2006
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Quote:
for non flat panels instead of using the small roller what should i use?
ps. 69charger = cheap paint GOD
... non flat panels ? What does it look like ?
I would imagine that if it consisted of small spaces you would use one of the cheaper by the bag full of 'foam brushes'. Then you would have a selection of 1", 2" and 3 1/2 inch foam brushes to use to get the paint on there...
But it would be lovely if you could provide a picture of what this 'non-flat-panel' looks like.
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#25657
08/29/06 09:45 PM
08/29/06 09:45 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,475 Ontario, Canada
78D150CLUB
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I have to say I'm the other side of the coin in regard to the paint quality. I'm impressed with the finish I was able to achieve with $100 or so in total materials and many patient hours of labour. I'm basking in the glow of 15 minutes of fame, having found my truck in the 2006 Moparfest photos just up on their website. http://patt.ca/27th%20annual%20Moparfest_files/Moparfest__0070.jpgOk, I admit, the pic is actually of the fire truck next door to mine, but I'm in there like a dirty shirt. I'm sorry to hear that chuck and Aussie have had less than success with the process. Hopefully others will have as good luck as I did.
I want to die like my Grampa, peacefully, in his sleep. Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
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