Re: Motor oil for 440-6 car?
[Re: Supercuda]
#2549199
09/12/18 01:42 PM
09/12/18 01:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,943 San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
1968RR
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,943
San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
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Oils without an API cert, well you can believe their crap shoot info if you want. I always wonder why they won't certify. They often aren't certified because they contain high levels of ZDDP. For example, the current API SN service rating only allows a maximum ZDDP content of 800 ppm. They do this because the phosphorus in ZDDP has been shown to harm catalytic converters. In any event, lacking an API certification doesn't always mean that the oil is of poor quality. ![twocents twocents](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/custom/twocents.gif)
"When I'm in a slump, I comfort myself by saying if I believe in dinosaurs, then somewhere, they must be believing in me. And if they believe in me, then I can believe in me." - Mookie Wilson
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Re: Motor oil for 440-6 car?
[Re: Luis Zavala]
#2549201
09/12/18 01:47 PM
09/12/18 01:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,566 Motor City
6PKRTSE
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,566
Motor City
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I just run whatever oil is on sale with the viscosity I need. Never had any engine issues.
1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute 1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack 1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi 1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383 1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440 1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4 2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4 2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
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Re: Motor oil for 440-6 car?
[Re: Luis Zavala]
#2549379
09/12/18 09:50 PM
09/12/18 09:50 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285 Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
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As stated by some, I'd let your engine pick the oil wight based on the pressures you're operating at. The 60s Shop manual has 5W-20 in it so it shouldn't be totally out ruled for some applications. Your application could be fine with 5W-20 or it could be 10W-30, but as long as you have good oil pressure, why go to thicker oil with greater parasitic drag on your engine? Also, these engines when new lived on motor oil with zinc in the 1000ppm range so I'd try to stay at or near that value. Plenty of good options for this without the need for additives. Race engines are one thing, but for long term durability of street driven engines, why risk lower zinc oils when moderate zinc oils are still readily available on the shelf at the big box or auto parts store? Viscosity choice will be based on clearances and oil pressure for YOUR engine.
In our 440-6 with slightly less than .003 (rods and mains), we use 10-30 VR1 and have 70# at cold start-up, 20# at hot idle, we're happy.
Joe Where in CA do you live and drive your six pack car? If west of the Sierra Mtns. near the coast I would and did , use 5 20 WT in the winter and 10W30WT in the summers
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Re: Motor oil for 440-6 car?
[Re: 1968RR]
#2549387
09/12/18 10:08 PM
09/12/18 10:08 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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Oils without an API cert, well you can believe their crap shoot info if you want. I always wonder why they won't certify. They often aren't certified because they contain high levels of ZDDP. For example, the current API SN service rating only allows a maximum ZDDP content of 800 ppm. They do this because the phosphorus in ZDDP has been shown to harm catalytic converters. In any event, lacking an API certification doesn't always mean that the oil is of poor quality. Go read their latest reasoning why. Has nothing to do with ZDDP. Very bottom https://www.amsoil.com/frequent.aspxThey used to say that, now they don't. There are reasons for industry standards and when one player doesn't think they need to meet the standards well, I gotta say one bit player vs the rest of the industry? Bye by bit player.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: Motor oil for 440-6 car?
[Re: jlatessa]
#2549418
09/12/18 11:11 PM
09/12/18 11:11 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 727 Michigan
BlueRacer69
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 727
Michigan
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I didn't think VR1 came in a 10-40?
Joe You are correct Sir, my mistake. I went out to the garage and checked the oil I have and its 20w50 not 10w40. Don't know what I was thinking. Sorry.
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Re: Motor oil for 440-6 car?
[Re: BlueRacer69]
#2549428
09/12/18 11:25 PM
09/12/18 11:25 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
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I didn't think VR1 came in a 10-40?
Joe You are correct Sir, my mistake. I went out to the garage and checked the oil I have and its 20w50 not 10w40. Don't know what I was thinking. Sorry. Is does come in 10W 30WT ![up up](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/custom/thumbs_up.gif)
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Motor oil for 440-6 car?
[Re: Supercuda]
#2549458
09/13/18 12:51 AM
09/13/18 12:51 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285 Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
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Oils without an API cert, well you can believe their crap shoot info if you want. I always wonder why they won't certify. They often aren't certified because they contain high levels of ZDDP. For example, the current API SN service rating only allows a maximum ZDDP content of 800 ppm. They do this because the phosphorus in ZDDP has been shown to harm catalytic converters. In any event, lacking an API certification doesn't always mean that the oil is of poor quality. Go read their latest reasoning why. Has nothing to do with ZDDP. Very bottom https://www.amsoil.com/frequent.aspxThey used to say that, now they don't. There are reasons for industry standards and when one player doesn't think they need to meet the standards well, I gotta say one bit player vs the rest of the industry? Bye by bit player. There are many "players" that produce both officially licensed motor oil and non-officially licensed motor oil. It's not limited to just one...
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Re: Motor oil for 440-6 car?
[Re: Supercuda]
#2549547
09/13/18 11:26 AM
09/13/18 11:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,072 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,072
Benton, IL.
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Oils without an API cert, well you can believe their crap shoot info if you want. I always wonder why they won't certify. They often aren't certified because they contain high levels of ZDDP. For example, the current API SN service rating only allows a maximum ZDDP content of 800 ppm. They do this because the phosphorus in ZDDP has been shown to harm catalytic converters. In any event, lacking an API certification doesn't always mean that the oil is of poor quality. Go read their latest reasoning why. Has nothing to do with ZDDP. Very bottom https://www.amsoil.com/frequent.aspxThey used to say that, now they don't. There are reasons for industry standards and when one player doesn't think they need to meet the standards well, I gotta say one bit player vs the rest of the industry? Bye by bit player. According to the link provided, it looks like Amsoil is still saying that high levels of zinc and phosphorus are the issue; Why isn’t AMSOIL Dominator® Synthetic Racing Oil recommended for street-driven vehicles? Answer: AMSOIL Dominator Synthetic Racing Oil is a premium-quality oil formulated for maximum protection in high-performance and racing applications. It is fortified with high levels of zinc and phosphorus, which are incompatible with catalytic converters common in today’s street-driven vehicles; therefore, Dominator Racing Oil does not carry API service classifications required by many standard passenger vehicles. However, Dominator Racing Oil is the ideal recommendation for street rods, muscle cars and other high-performance vehicles driven on the street.
Master, again and still
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Re: Motor oil for 440-6 car?
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2549918
09/14/18 11:54 AM
09/14/18 11:54 AM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,943 San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
1968RR
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,943
San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
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Oils without an API cert, well you can believe their crap shoot info if you want. I always wonder why they won't certify. They often aren't certified because they contain high levels of ZDDP. For example, the current API SN service rating only allows a maximum ZDDP content of 800 ppm. They do this because the phosphorus in ZDDP has been shown to harm catalytic converters. In any event, lacking an API certification doesn't always mean that the oil is of poor quality. Go read their latest reasoning why. Has nothing to do with ZDDP. Very bottom https://www.amsoil.com/frequent.aspxThey used to say that, now they don't. There are reasons for industry standards and when one player doesn't think they need to meet the standards well, I gotta say one bit player vs the rest of the industry? Bye by bit player. According to the link provided, it looks like Amsoil is still saying that high levels of zinc and phosphorus are the issue; Why isn’t AMSOIL Dominator® Synthetic Racing Oil recommended for street-driven vehicles? Answer: AMSOIL Dominator Synthetic Racing Oil is a premium-quality oil formulated for maximum protection in high-performance and racing applications. It is fortified with high levels of zinc and phosphorus, which are incompatible with catalytic converters common in today’s street-driven vehicles; therefore, Dominator Racing Oil does not carry API service classifications required by many standard passenger vehicles. However, Dominator Racing Oil is the ideal recommendation for street rods, muscle cars and other high-performance vehicles driven on the street. Near the bottom of the linked page they state that if all of their oils were API licensed, "the company could not source new raw materials from multiple suppliers, which would greatly increase the threat of supply disruption and the likelihood of extraordinarily high prices." Just my opinion, but it sounds like a weak excuse. In my previous post, I was referring to oils like Brad Penn and Valvoline's VR1, which have ZDDP contents between 1200 and 1500 ppm. There are several reasons why oils might lack API licensing, so it's best to judge on a case-by-case basis.
"When I'm in a slump, I comfort myself by saying if I believe in dinosaurs, then somewhere, they must be believing in me. And if they believe in me, then I can believe in me." - Mookie Wilson
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Re: Motor oil for 440-6 car?
[Re: AndyF]
#2549924
09/14/18 12:07 PM
09/14/18 12:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 892 Illinois
StrkrDart69
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 892
Illinois
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Wondering what kind of motor oil is best to use on a 440-6 car. Let me know please. I appreciate the help. It doesn't really matter. Just grab anything that is on sale that is roughly the correct viscosity. Trust me, it really doesn't matter that much. I use the cheapest stuff that Costco sells in race engines all the time. On sale oil in the viscosity I need. I do run a bottle of STP in every oil change for zinc.
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Re: Motor oil for 440-6 car?
[Re: 1968RR]
#2549941
09/14/18 01:07 PM
09/14/18 01:07 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285 Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
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Near the bottom of the linked page they state that if all of their oils were API licensed, "the company could not source new raw materials from multiple suppliers, which would greatly increase the threat of supply disruption and the likelihood of extraordinarily high prices." Just my opinion, but it sounds like a weak excuse. In my previous post, I was referring to oils like Brad Penn and Valvoline's VR1, which have ZDDP contents between 1200 and 1500 ppm. There are several reasons why oils might lack API licensing, so it's best to judge on a case-by-case basis.
It would probably come down to do you the individual trust the company making the non-API licensed motor oil? Given your two examples, Valvoline VR1 IS API Licensed while Penn Grade 1, "The Green Oil", is NOT API licensed yet lots of people use and trust Penn Grade 1. Other companies making non-API licensed motor oil include but not limited to Mobil 1, Pennzoil, Red Line, Lucas, Torco, Joe Gibbs Driven, Royal Purple and more. So there again, to single out one company for making non-licensed motor oil is a bit short sided.
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Re: Motor oil for 440-6 car?
[Re: CompSyn]
#2549955
09/14/18 01:46 PM
09/14/18 01:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,943 San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
1968RR
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,943
San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
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It would probably come down to do you the individual trust the company making the non-API licensed motor oil? Given your two examples, Valvoline VR1 IS API Licensed while Penn Grade 1, "The Green Oil", is NOT API licensed yet lots of people use and trust Penn Grade 1.
Other companies making non-API licensed motor oil include but not limited to Mobil 1, Pennzoil, Red Line, Lucas, Torco, Joe Gibbs Driven, Royal Purple and more. So there again, to single out one company for making non-licensed motor oil is a bit short sided. Agreed. While I know that some of the VR1 oils are API licensed, I seem to remember that the "race only" VR1 oils weren't, although I might be mistaken. In any event, the non-licensed oils should be judged on a case-by-case basis, and (in my opinion) typically fall at the far ends of the quality spectrum: either really good, or junk that should be avoided.
"When I'm in a slump, I comfort myself by saying if I believe in dinosaurs, then somewhere, they must be believing in me. And if they believe in me, then I can believe in me." - Mookie Wilson
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Re: Motor oil for 440-6 car?
[Re: 1968RR]
#2549961
09/14/18 02:00 PM
09/14/18 02:00 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285 Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
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It would probably come down to do you the individual trust the company making the non-API licensed motor oil? Given your two examples, Valvoline VR1 IS API Licensed while Penn Grade 1, "The Green Oil", is NOT API licensed yet lots of people use and trust Penn Grade 1.
Other companies making non-API licensed motor oil include but not limited to Mobil 1, Pennzoil, Red Line, Lucas, Torco, Joe Gibbs Driven, Royal Purple and more. So there again, to single out one company for making non-licensed motor oil is a bit short sided. Agreed. While I know that some of the VR1 oils are API licensed, I seem to remember that the "race only" VR1 oils weren't, although I might be mistaken. In any event, the non-licensed oils should be judged on a case-by-case basis, and (in my opinion) typically fall at the far ends of the quality spectrum: either really good, or junk that should be avoided. Straight from the API licensee directory: VR1 Racing is API (SN) licensed VR1 Synthetic Racing 5W-30 and 10W-30 is API is (SL) licensed while the 20W-50 is (SN) licensed. Yes and I think one thing that happens more often than not is folks become so laser focused on the zinc content of motor oil that they ignore other important performance attributes that make up the oil.
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