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Brake Anomaly #2548810
09/11/18 03:05 PM
09/11/18 03:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline OP
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My '57 Dodge has upgraded manual brakes, later rear with drum brakes and front disc conversion using a factory tandem MC. After the conversion I bench bled the new MC and thoroughly bled the system and had a good firm pedal. I've been driving it occasionally with no brake problems.

So, the other day I jump in and back it out of the garage, apply the brakes and the pedal is way low and spongy. I check the fluid level and look for signs of a leak; fluid level is correct and no leaks.

I have a friend operate the brake pedal while I observe the fluid in the reservoir, rear reservoir shows a normal slight burble in the fluid surface as the pedal is applied but the front reservoir (for the rear drum brakes) has air bubbles rising. Slowly pumping the pedal produces rising air bubbles with each stroke. So, today I sat in the car and slowly pumped the brake pedal numerous times and now the pedal feel is just like it was before the incident.

I'm at a loss to figure where the air in the front reservoir came from, the MC has no RPV so I installed one (10 psi) in the line to the rear brakes. How can air suddenly appear in a system that's sealed tight? Any thoughts?


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Re: Brake Anomaly [Re: John_Kunkel] #2548842
09/11/18 03:53 PM
09/11/18 03:53 PM
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Andrewh Offline
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what did the level do? when you were done pumping the air out, was it low.
I would expect it to be, but just want to be sure.

and it is unlikely that it migrated very far, but I would still be checking rubber lines.

Re: Brake Anomaly [Re: Andrewh] #2548910
09/11/18 06:18 PM
09/11/18 06:18 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline OP
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Fluid level remains the same, all rubber hoses are brand new and dry.


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Re: Brake Anomaly [Re: John_Kunkel] #2548918
09/11/18 06:28 PM
09/11/18 06:28 PM
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Andrewh Offline
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odd. logically that air had to displace some fluid.
maybe it was just too little to tell.

I am at a loss.
the only thought would be perhaps air bubbles worked their way up. like microscopic ones after sitting a long time.
but even then I would expect some sponginess.
unless it was like carbonation where it was absorbed into the fluid. but I didn't think brake fluid could do that.

while it is possible to have a rubber hose or perhaps a bad seal act as a check valve only allowing air in but not let fluid out, I can't see why it would stop letting air in too.

Re: Brake Anomaly [Re: John_Kunkel] #2548924
09/11/18 06:37 PM
09/11/18 06:37 PM
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Minn
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SportF Offline
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I had a single piston ('63) do that to me on a car that is in progress this summer. Left it to work on it at another time and a few days later it was leaking out the back.

Sort of similar. Good luck.

Re: Brake Anomaly [Re: John_Kunkel] #2548933
09/11/18 06:56 PM
09/11/18 06:56 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:
I'm at a loss to figure where the air in the front reservoir came from. How can air suddenly appear in a system that's sealed tight? Any thoughts?
I'm thinking a loose fitting/line/hose that is allowing air to be sucked back up in there on the return stroke.


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Re: Brake Anomaly [Re: John_Kunkel] #2548934
09/11/18 07:04 PM
09/11/18 07:04 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:
Slowly pumping the pedal produces rising air bubbles with each stroke.
Yeah either the air is still in there (& I wouldn't think so as there ain't no magic to bleeding) & especially with the amt of the bubbles (from what it sounds like) that it (air) is being drawn back in somehow.


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Re: Brake Anomaly [Re: John_Kunkel] #2548939
09/11/18 07:19 PM
09/11/18 07:19 PM
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One thing we learned in the Navy was that watertight did not mean airtight.

IOW, air leaks in easier than a liquid. Probably woulcn't hurt to put a wrench on all connections and retighten them.


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Re: Brake Anomaly [Re: John_Kunkel] #2549113
09/12/18 04:45 AM
09/12/18 04:45 AM
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
The air most likely came in from a wheel cylinder.


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Re: Brake Anomaly [Re: John_Kunkel] #2549146
09/12/18 11:04 AM
09/12/18 11:04 AM
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Frederick, MD
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71charger Offline
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On my '55 Plymouth, there was an air bubble trapped in the passenger side rear wheel cylinder that would not bleed out. I finally got it out by clamping the flex hose to the rear axle, taking the drum off, and using my pressure bleeder to repeatedly expand the shoes until the wheel cylinder finally burped out the last bit of air. Maybe yours had a stubborn bubble that worked its way up the hard line to come out the MC.

Re: Brake Anomaly [Re: Guitar Jones] #2549257
09/12/18 03:58 PM
09/12/18 03:58 PM
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Pattison Texas
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Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
The air most likely came in from a wheel cylinder.

This ^^^^^^

I have had this happen more than once, also VERY common on c3 vett calipers to suck air

Last edited by csk; 09/12/18 04:00 PM.

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Re: Brake Anomaly [Re: Guitar Jones] #2549295
09/12/18 05:44 PM
09/12/18 05:44 PM
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Posts: 25,808
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
The air most likely came in from a wheel cylinder.


The RPV is supposed to prevent that. The notion that the air was always there, trapped somehow, isn't consistent with the pedal being firm after the original installation.


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Re: Brake Anomaly [Re: John_Kunkel] #2549468
09/13/18 01:36 AM
09/13/18 01:36 AM
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Nebraska
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4406bbl Offline
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This may sound stupid but had a guy tell me he fixed this problem at the rear wheel cylinders by putting the old wheel cylinder springs in that had the round metal expanders on the end of the springs. I guess some kits dont have the metal rings or people just dont put them in.

Re: Brake Anomaly [Re: John_Kunkel] #2549473
09/13/18 01:51 AM
09/13/18 01:51 AM
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Nebraska
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4406bbl Offline
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Fwiw, I have found some cheap aka Centric wheel cylinders to not have the expanders, they form the end of the spring to take its place, I buy wheel cylinder kits or use the old ones anytime I work on them, check before install.







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