|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#25178
07/21/06 01:04 PM
07/21/06 01:04 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
The key is speed and quality. The discs are wet or dry. Most of the time I wetsand with the rotary on the early coats. I find the rotary a blessing (and the PC)....by hand this would take forever....I have to say for the sanding go with the rotary...I feel it saves a lot of time.
To do the hood on my Camry I use 2 (sometimes 3) discs.
I got the 50 pack 4 boxes of Rhino (non loading) for 65$ shipped. So 1 box is $16. You don't have to buy 4 boxes (I wanted different grit sizes). You can get 2 boxes or even one (say a 180 and 400 or do just 1 180 box and you do the rest by hand) well you get the idea. I know I got enough paper for quite a few cars now.
On the final coat I'm doing the wetsanding by hand the buff with the Hitachy rotary and Diamond Cut 2.0 on the compound pad, then PB SSR 2.5 or 3 with the yellow or orange Lake county foam pad, SSR1 to remove the light swirls and micro maring. From then either AOI or PB EX and Natty Paste wax.
The discs are wet or dry.
PB = Poor Boy good stuff, non abrasive polishes,swirl removers..
Thanks for your info. I was looking at the Porter Cable earlier today. Do you think that + 600 grit discs would suffice for between-coats sanding--assuming the final coat is hand sanded?
(I currently use 400 and 600 between coats, wetsanding by hand)
Last edited by mooserider; 07/21/06 01:07 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#25179
07/21/06 01:24 PM
07/21/06 01:24 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
I think between coats 400 would be fine. 600 would work as well. You can get the PC from Lowes ($109). Take a look at the Hitachi (you can get it for $110 shipped from CoastalTool.com that is where I got mine). Having both the PC and the Hitachi rotary I can say the following:
1) The PC will bog down if you apply some good pressure on it.
2) The Hitachi can do the work of the PC a lot faster.
3) As long as you keep the Hitachi on lower speeds (1-3) and constantly move it will not burn/damage the paint (this is for polishing and more for a 2 stage paint job base+ clear which is not the case with our system here ...well some people are doing the tremclad and then top it off with clear coat).
4) There are scratches/defects that the Hitachi will get out and the PC will fail (all things being equal both using same pad and polish).
If I had to do it again I would just get the Hitachi (once you use the 11 amp beast you cannot go back to the 3+ amps of the PC).
I don't mean to bash the PC. It is great but its greatest strength is its greatest weakness. The fact that is is random orbit makes it so anybody can use it without fearing of damaging the paint (this also robs the power and makes things take longer). The rotary is not something people should be afraid of. I've learned to use it and everyone can (just start with the lowest speed and always keep it moving). I'm going to do a video and try to post it eventually.
Last edited by stage5; 07/21/06 01:26 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: Exit1965]
#25180
07/21/06 03:22 PM
07/21/06 03:22 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
Not yet, that's on my to do list this weekend though. I will probably try thinning with "paint thinner" first and see how that works, then if not I'll go with mineral spirits.
Anyone know what is used to thin the paint in the spray cans? That would be a perfect match, and that dries fairly fast and covers well with only a couple coats.
Well today I went over to Harbor Freight and bought a couple of those cans. I will use them to spray primer tonight. I plan to thin the paint with Penetrol as I did when rolling/foam brushing it on yesterday. We'll see how that goes. It is just the engine bay and inside the trunk, so it doesn't have to be perfect.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#25181
07/21/06 03:56 PM
07/21/06 03:56 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,378
Rancho Cordova, CA
Exit1965
master
|
master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,378
Rancho Cordova, CA
|
Quote:
Quote:
Not yet, that's on my to do list this weekend though. I will probably try thinning with "paint thinner" first and see how that works, then if not I'll go with mineral spirits.
Anyone know what is used to thin the paint in the spray cans? That would be a perfect match, and that dries fairly fast and covers well with only a couple coats.
Well today I went over to Harbor Freight and bought a couple of those cans. I will use them to spray primer tonight. I plan to thin the paint with Penetrol as I did when rolling/foam brushing it on yesterday. We'll see how that goes. It is just the engine bay and inside the trunk, so it doesn't have to be perfect.
Cool.. be sure and post what works for it. I think the cans include a few different nozzle tops too, wasn't sure which one to use, maybe medium..
Last edited by Exit1965; 07/21/06 03:57 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: Exit1965]
#25182
07/21/06 08:25 PM
07/21/06 08:25 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
I used the $10 HF rechargeable spray bottle (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=1102) to put a second coat of Rustoleum clean metal primer on my car's engine bay. The experience was pretty frustrating but the results look decent enough.
The bottle doesn't spray like a spraybomb (which seems like it atomizes the paint), so much, as it shoots lots of little globs of paint onto the surface. As I thinned the paint with around 25% of Penetrol, the paint on the surface of the car tended to level and now that it is somewhat dry there is a fairly uniform coat.
I had to continually pump up the bottle every two or three minutes and tried to get the pressure up to around 70 psi (50 is recommended on the bottle). The bottle would quit "spraying" when it got down to around 20 psi. Also, the instructions recommend filling the can 1/2 way but I had better luck spraying with it around 1/4 full.
After laboring through the engine bay, which was actually much easier than doing it with the foam brush, I went back to the trunk area. I was having trouble spraying any paint with the black nozzle (medium) so I switched to one of the green (fine) nozzles and with 70 psi the thing all of a sudden sprayed like glory, probably as good as an aerosol spraycan from the store. It held up like this long enough to do 1/3 of the trunk, then quit. I pumped it back up and got nothing. Then I switched nozzles again and nothing. I tried again and again (it wouldn't spray) and I guess the can was just finished. So I called it a night. I have another bottle I may try tomorrow or I may just do finish out the trunk with the brush and roller.
You may have better luck with a thinner mixture or by using mineral spirits to thin the paint. I did have some runs and tried to hit them with the foam brush to smooth them out, but there weren't that many.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: Exit1965]
#25183
07/21/06 08:41 PM
07/21/06 08:41 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
hows that dart comin along exit. i been keepin up with your project for the LONGEST.
veryyyy interested on your final results, your skill level mirrors mine most closely from what i can tell.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#25184
07/22/06 02:09 AM
07/22/06 02:09 AM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
So I finished tonihgt. This was a week long project. I loved how it turned out. Thanks much. It looks great from about 4 feet away. When you get closer you can see the imperfections. But I think thats only because I painted it. Friends don't pick them out so much.. Enjoy. This was 3 coats of brightside, largo blue. Pictures from the painting process are in that gallery. It took me 1 3/4 of a can total. I did the car, hoop spoiler (not pictured), and hard tonnau for the back seats. All finished: http://www.novaslp.net/pics/v/newcar2/paint/img_0431.jpg.html
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#25185
07/22/06 01:46 PM
07/22/06 01:46 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,475
Ontario, Canada
78D150CLUB
My avatar is a self portrait!!
|
My avatar is a self portrait!!
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,475
Ontario, Canada
|
The car looks great, Nova1313! I hope my truck finishes off as well as yours. I'm about 3/4 done on Hunter Green and starting on the John Deere green two tone areas. I tried a custom tinted Tremclad green #566, but it's a bit too neon for my taste. Great if you want to match the 70 Challenger Limelight paint, though. Good job on the Eclipse, again. It really looks fantastic.  
I want to die like my Grampa, peacefully, in his sleep. Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#25186
07/22/06 02:09 PM
07/22/06 02:09 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,378
Rancho Cordova, CA
Exit1965
master
|
master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,378
Rancho Cordova, CA
|
Quote:
hows that dart comin along exit. i been keepin up with your project for the LONGEST.
veryyyy interested on your final results, your skill level mirrors mine most closely from what i can tell.
It's coming along. I put another coat on the roof, trunk and hood this morning. Also I am adding paint to the edges of the body lines, where I can still see some darkness. That process of rolling paint onto only PART of the surface is going well, it blends in and can't really be seen. Wont be visible at all after the wetsanding to smooth everything together.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#25187
07/22/06 02:51 PM
07/22/06 02:51 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,378
Rancho Cordova, CA
Exit1965
master
|
master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,378
Rancho Cordova, CA
|
Ok I just spent a few minutes with that pump up can. Seems that with a thin or a thick mixture, it doesn't atomize anywhere near an aerosol can for me. It splatters the paint, but eventually the paint lays down OK. There will certainly be runs.
Im not sure how you got it to spray like a spray bomb after switching nozzles. I tried a few times, once with thicker mixture and once pretty thin. I guess I can try it even thinner.
What I worry about then is if the paint will cure properly. A thick coat with a roller doesn't cure as well (or completely?) as with a thin coat, so if I am getting 1 coat coverage with this spray can, that makes me a bit nervous.
The real spray bomb stuff seems to dry nice and hard, fairly fast though and 2 coats should cover fine. If this doesn't work out, spray bombs here I come.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#25188
07/22/06 04:16 PM
07/22/06 04:16 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Just dropping in to say hello and that I have read more about rolling on paint than I thought was possible. I have an old truck I want to have painted but I keep getting 4 digit quotes starting with 5 or higher, it's just a truck I plan to drive it, not show it at World of Wheels! So a buddy linked me up to this thread and now I'm like "hmmmm". Dangerous thinking ahead  So I had some old glovebox doors lying around (how in the world did I amass not one but 3 spare glovebox doors for my old truck?) and figured I'd make a small test on one of them to see. http://faith.dixiesys.com/Paint I figure worst case scenario, I mess it up and still have to get it painted by a "pro" and I can't see anything I'm doing making it MORE expensive...
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#25189
07/22/06 04:50 PM
07/22/06 04:50 PM
|
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
Marq
mopar addict
|
mopar addict
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
|
It's Saturday and its time to share the final pictures of this painting adventure... The McLaren is now done and all that awaits is the polishing stage. I will have to wait a couple of weeks to let the polyurathane fully cure ). But I have put the lights back onto the car and I am pleased with the results.    I have 40 pictures posted on my server that show the car from just about every angle. Please excuse the few water droplets that you might see... on the hood or the spoiler. I had to seriously scrub down the rag top to get all the sanding dust out of the canvas. So if you want to check out all 40 pics here is the link. http://www.snpx.com/mclaren/mclarenJuly/index.htmThe car will earn its pin stripes once the car is polished. No point laying pin stripes on unpolished paint ( although I probably could because this paint is smooth and glossy ). I will probably pop back in a couple of weeks after I get the polishing of this paint job finished. I can't wait  From what I have read so far the polyurathane should shine like a million dollars and the polishing technique is the very same as for shining up the Tremclad/Rustoleum paint jobs. But for the price of the paint and the time spent on this project I am THRILLED by the results. And I can't wait to see the jaws drop when I tell them the car was painted by hand with a 4 inch roller And I think for historical purposes I will post something that I originally did about this car back in September 2002. Because this is where this car started from and remained stalled at PRIOR to learning the secret of the Rustoleum/Tremclad paint by hand paint jobs. This is where this car began prior to this paint job. It languished for FOUR YEARS waiting to get painted because the bucks weren't there to do it... http://www.securitynewsportal.com/mclaren/interior.html = The Interior - Seats and Console http://www.securitynewsportal.com/mclaren/cowlarea.html = The Cowl Area and Hood http://www.securitynewsportal.com/mclaren/thebum.html = The Rear Bumper and Valance http://www.securitynewsportal.com/mclaren/thefront.html = The Front Bumper and Hood http://www.securitynewsportal.com/mclaren/theside.html = The Drivers Side & Moldings Thanks Charger and the Mopar forum .
Last edited by Marq; 07/22/06 05:22 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: Marq]
#25190
07/22/06 05:03 PM
07/22/06 05:03 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,378
Rancho Cordova, CA
Exit1965
master
|
master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,378
Rancho Cordova, CA
|
Looking good Marq! How hard would you say the paint feels? Have you done any scratch testing on any of it? I'm definately keeping this stuff in mind for my next paint job. 
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: darenrt]
#25194
07/22/06 11:39 PM
07/22/06 11:39 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
crazy people . crazy im telling u haha all together over 60 pges here 30 on honda etc paintshoops industry just hired some snipers to take out 69 charger haah and ddos attack this place. Impressed as hell even got a login here and don't own a mopar.I am wondering why spend 30$ on paint if that boat britewhite is easier and better bang for a buck its only few $$$ more.That lagoon coulor is nice. I realise the metalics isssue here what about pearl, people who got test parts being painted go autosuply get a some pearl mix it in and give it thin layers see how it looks. Keep paint well steered i guess for best resaults. But shiet overall exelent work considering the cost. I aaume u can shoot normal auto clear over afterwards for max shine rather than trying to roll it. Just give it a good wetsend at 1000 or so and than shoot only another 40$ for a can of clear and that electric pressure gun. U going to prep car for paint anyway so keep masking in tact and shoot. Still under 150$ and at home haha Paint wise i think "industrial endura" is similar to this "synthetic acrilic part urithane enamels ". No hardeners reducers just gun it or roll brush reduce as any paint out there til good enough to layer without orange peel, self levels on whatever as long as prepped and grips to anything solid. I know wsomeone painting powerboxes for the city haha thtas what they do sand to metal and than roll industrial single stage enamel but since it outside they just use the oilbased /rust protective type rathern than thiker shiner synthetic based , more expensive enamel.So ,more u spend on paint itself much better resaults will be achived. Can't wait to see more cars using the roller , [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] so simple so nice. Sorrie newb here lots of questions for expirienced painters can't u buy "part source" "autozone" type of stores auto paint they sell "general paint" or something synthetic enamel non metalic and just roll away once reduced to proper rollable level. And just tighdy hardener since we can just let dry overnight at home vs bodyshops.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#25195
07/23/06 08:33 AM
07/23/06 08:33 AM
|
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
Marq
mopar addict
|
mopar addict
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
|
Quote:
Sorrie newb here lots of questions for expirienced painters can't u buy "part source" "autozone" type of stores auto paint they sell "general paint" or something synthetic enamel non metalic and just roll away once reduced to proper rollable level. And just tighdy hardener since we can just let dry overnight at home vs bodyshops.
The original point of this thread was to create a respectable paint job on a dirt cheap budget. To solve that question Charger put forward the Tremclad/Rustoleum cut with mineral spirits process. And as we can see it works.
I branched off from the Tremclad/Rustoleum method and went to the Brightside marine paint by Interlux... using basically the same painting & sanding process. But by changing over to the Brightside paint the cost of the project increased... and now you were looking at 3 cans of Brightside at $35 per can ( or much cheaper on eBay - but we are still waiting reports on how that eBay Brightside works out ).... as compared to about $10-$15 per can for the Tremclad/Rustoleum.
Trying this method with a highly thinned automotive paint would probably work but cost of the paint products might be taking the project up higher and out of the reach of most folks 'experimental' budgets.
Now... about automotive metalflake type paints... I think it can be done but I don't think the results will be visually satisfactory. With most metal flake paints being sprayed, you get the benefit of 'randomness' of the metalflake as it is sprayed onto the car.
But if you were rolling a metalflake type automotive paint, I beliece you will suffer from 'concentrations of the metalflake at each end of the roller when you apply it to the body. And even when you restroke the paint to even out the wet edges there will still be traces of those concentrations. In effect, when you look at a finished panel you would be able to see the rolling pattern that you used on the panel.
I tried two experiments to get some metal flake into my paint job. Neither were satisfactory.
In the one experiment I taped off the entire horizontal edge of the car.... it was basically a six inch area that runs the full length of the car - from front to back. Before adding each second layer of paint I sprayed the previous layer with Krylon 'red' metal flake. Then I would let it dry and paint over it with the next layer of Brightside paint. Since the paint is fairly translucent you could clearly see the metal flake below. THE PROBLEM was that it was hard with even the metal flake spray bomb to get an even spread of the metal flake. So basically the metalflake looked like crap trapped under the Brightside paint. Now... when I went to revert back to the 'pre-metalflake' stage I found that the Krylon paint ( when wet sanded ) became almost 'flour-glue-paste' like in its consistency. And this left me wondering whether this layer of Krylon metalflake might prove to be the achilles heel of the paint job... I could imagine at some point in the future where the Brightside paint might lose its adhesion to the Krylon layer and peel off in sheets. Or worst yet.. if the Brightside layer was scratched and water was able to leech into the Krylon layer.. weakening the adhesion.
But I am not a quitter and for my next experiment I went to the craft store where you can buy these little mini-baggies filled with just the metalflake only. You pay about $5 and you have your choice of a number of micro-thin sparkle particles. So I dumped two of these packages directly into my can of Brightside and MIXED IT LIKE CRAZY for about 10 minutes to make sure I got an even distribution of the particles with the paint. I then poured the mix into my paint tray and started applying it. It looked good EXCEPT for one problem.. even when you painted over it with the next layer of Brightside it still remained ROUGH to the touch. It was almost like sand had been mixed into the paint. Even with a ton of wetsanding you could not get the surface smooth to the touch. So I put the old 220 grit 3X paper to work and stripped off that entire experiment.
It's possible that if I had visited the local paint shop supplier I might have been able to buy some professional additive that I could have mixed into my paint to give it 'that different look'. And maybe that is where I should have gone instead of to a crafter store to buy sparkles. But based on my two experiments so far I would want to know for a fact that the additive is 100% compatible with the paint I am using. I suspect I would have less of a compatibility problems with the Brightside paint - since it is a polyurathane. But the Tremclad/Rustoleum may not be as receptive to having some of the additives ( metalflakes, pearls, etc )
Just my two cents worth and hopefully it will save some other folks some work or frustration.
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: Marq]
#25196
07/23/06 09:07 AM
07/23/06 09:07 AM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
DOes anyone have the link to the original thread?
|
|
|
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: Marq]
#25197
07/23/06 09:35 AM
07/23/06 09:35 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,475
Ontario, Canada
78D150CLUB
My avatar is a self portrait!!
|
My avatar is a self portrait!!
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,475
Ontario, Canada
|
Sorry to hear that your experiments had a disappointing result, Marq. I think the final result on the paint still looks great, though. From your description, you tried a slightly different method than I used, and the Brightside has fewer layers than I'm applying. I don't spray a whole layer, I just dust the surface with a fog from about 18-24 inches away with Armor Coat silver. At that distance, all I get is a very fine layer of glittering on the surface of the unsanded layer. The next coat goes over that and then gets sanded. I have no extreme roughness, or curing problems. The spray can paint is actually acting more as an adhesive to hold the flake in place until the next coat goes over top. Pwing to the poor (read as cheap school trip for kids, so it got lost on the bus [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] camera) the effect doesn't show up well in the pics, but this one does seem to catch the effect. In person and outdoor light, the flake is very noticable. Perkaps the Krylon paint has something to do with the curing, I've used their spray at work, and somehow it seems to be plastic when dry, something like a saran wrap layer. I dunno  Sounds a bit like cold fusion, one guy says it works, another one can't. I wish it had been a success for you. Sorry for the longwinded post  I will try to get a pic that shows the effect better.
|
|
|
|
|
