Drum Brake Help
#2500752
05/26/18 07:22 PM
05/26/18 07:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,406 Michigan
MarkZ
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Michigan
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I feel like amateur hour over here... After the car sat in the garage over the winter I discovered the passenger side rear wheel cylinder was leaking. I popped the drum off to discover the shoes had been reduced to sludge in addition to the cable that holds the adjuster lock was snapped. I got new shoes, a new cable and a new cylinder while reusing the rest after soaking it gas overnight (was just the springs anyhow).
I got it all back together, bleed the one side and off I went. Now, I didn't replace the shoes on the driver's side as they're basically new. I Figured drums are self adjusting, so there was nothing to worry about.
After the test ride the passenger rear was smoking. Obliviously the shoes were stuck engaging the drum. Once it cooled though the drum slid right off with no effort. Dumb founded I ran the adjuster all the way in, slid the drum back on and took it out again - same result. So I pulled it apart again expecting to see the adjuster at least a few turns out and it was still all the way in. [ Moparts Family Site - Keep it Friendly ] am I doing wrong? I've reassembled drums countless times and never experienced this.
The drum smokes every time I take it out, but when I take it apart there is no resistance to taking it apart.
I only dissembled the problem side and only bled the this one side. Pedal feel is normal and car stops OK otherwise.
Does anything look out of place to you guys in these photos?
I've got a car show I'm going to in the morning and I need to figure this out. I'm completely stumped...
Last edited by MarkM; 05/26/18 07:38 PM.
1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
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Re: Drum Brake Help
[Re: MarkZ]
#2500761
05/26/18 07:59 PM
05/26/18 07:59 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,816 ohio
ruderunner
master
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master
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ohio
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Loose wheel bearing? Will leak gear oil and if bad enough will cause brake drag.
Hard to tell from pics but if the bottom of the shoes show wear, take a closer look at the bearing.
Angry white pureblood male
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Re: Drum Brake Help
[Re: stumpy]
#2500788
05/26/18 08:48 PM
05/26/18 08:48 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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What Stump said, it should have that metal piece on the 12 0'clock anchor nub. something is keeping the shoes from retracting: that nub (maybe) but it was OK before without it I am assuming. wheel cyl issue (but they are new which ain't a 100% guarantee but pretty high). shoes hanging up on the b plate smooth pads (I wouldn't think). You might have a helper push the pedal BARELY but firmly (a firm tap) with the drum off, repeatedly & you see if you spot anything amiss as the shoes expand.As you know dont let him push the wheel cyl pistons/cups anywhere near all the way out. After typing this I'm thinking something with where the shoes contact the b plate (or that top anchor). Holler how it goes.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Drum Brake Help
[Re: stumpy]
#2500793
05/26/18 08:52 PM
05/26/18 08:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,406 Michigan
MarkZ
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Here is a shot of the forward shoe. There was a bit of axle oil in the bottom of the backing plate and there is a couple thousandth of up/down play in the axle. I don't know of that constitutes a bad bearing though. It's an 8.75" and this is the side with the adjuster on it. I had it replaced not too long ago too.
And yeah, now that it's mentioned, there is a retainer missing from the top.
I don't think I'm going to make that show tomorrow.
1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
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Re: Drum Brake Help
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2500798
05/26/18 09:20 PM
05/26/18 09:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,406 Michigan
MarkZ
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OP
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What Stump said, it should have that metal piece on the 12 0'clock anchor nub. something is keeping the shoes from retracting: that nub (maybe) but it was OK before without it I am assuming. wheel cyl issue (but they are new which ain't a 100% guarantee but pretty high). shoes hanging up on the b plate smooth pads (I wouldn't think). You might have a helper push the pedal BARELY but firmly (a firm tap) with the drum off, repeatedly & you see if you spot anything amiss as the shoes expand.As you know dont let him push the wheel cyl pistons/cups anywhere near all the way out. After typing this I'm thinking something with where the shoes contact the b plate (or that top anchor). Holler how it goes. I did find a little gear oil in the bottom of the backing plate. I don't know if the bearing or seal is bad. Damn thing got pretty hot. Going to have my Dad stop by tomorrow so someone can work the brake with the tires free-wheeling. I'll certainly check back with what we find.
1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
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Re: Drum Brake Help
[Re: MarkZ]
#2500815
05/26/18 10:03 PM
05/26/18 10:03 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa.
Mattax
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
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Agree it looks like the anchor plate is missing. It also looks like two secondary shoes. Primary shoe usually has shorter lining (and originals sometimes a different material). Primary shoe grabs and forces the secondary to engage harder by puxhing on the bottom. So that's a possibility. Some illustrations of original spring hookup starting '69 is here: http://www.imperialclub.org/Repair/Lit/Master/260/Page07.htmand of course the service manual. Note the self-adjuster overload springs face outward. At least for '69 - ? Don't think that would cause your problem, but it must effect something or they wouldn't have made a service bulletin... Detail in the '69 TSB http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/TSBs/1969/D69-5-5%20page_2.jpgHere's a picture of '69 10"x1.75 rear shoes etc. on my car. Your springs etc will be a little different...
Last edited by Mattax; 05/26/18 10:10 PM.
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Re: Drum Brake Help
[Re: Mattax]
#2500874
05/27/18 01:01 AM
05/27/18 01:01 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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That may be the issue. Two secondary (long lining) shoes. X2, might be the 2 long shoes causing the problem & they might be slightly off in their dimentions causing the rub (& it might be something else still). Holler how it turns out & too bad you hafta miss the show.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Drum Brake Help
[Re: MarkZ]
#2500914
05/27/18 07:57 AM
05/27/18 07:57 AM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,816 ohio
ruderunner
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master
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ohio
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Can't believe I missed that...
Angry white pureblood male
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Re: Drum Brake Help
[Re: MarkZ]
#2501115
05/27/18 10:09 PM
05/27/18 10:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,406 Michigan
MarkZ
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Yeah, you guys nailed it - I assembled the shoes incorrectly. The box contained two sets of shrinked wrapped shoes and I thought that each one was for a side. I opened the other set and it contained two short shoes. After I fixed the mistake and located a shoe retainer for the top it works as it should. No more roasting wheel.
Thanks guys.
1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
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Re: Drum Brake Help
[Re: MarkZ]
#2501829
05/29/18 04:47 PM
05/29/18 04:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,406 Michigan
MarkZ
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Well, spoke too soon I guess. Took the car on an a lengthy trip last night when I got home I could smell roasting brakes. It didn't get nearly as hot as it has in the past (before there was smoke), but you could smell it. I'm at a total loss now and the only thing I can think of is the new wheel cylinder at some point is failing to collapse. Before I took it out I had the back end in the air and tested the brakes with the tires free wheeling - everything seemed to be working just fine.
Going to swap out the new wheel cylinder tonight...I'll post back.
1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
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Re: Drum Brake Help
[Re: MarkZ]
#2503279
06/01/18 06:02 PM
06/01/18 06:02 PM
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 23 The Netherlands
Luigi
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The Netherlands
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I've had the same problem with overheating brakes, see this thread: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2138777/2.htmlFinally, after a long time of adjusting and trying this was the answer: Finally solved the problem.... Being só sick of all this at trying to adjust the shoes with no result I ordered a new pair of shoes. This time I ordered Wagner brakeshoes. The first ones were from Raybestos. When they came in, I compared them with the Raybestos shoes. At first sight the were exactly the same but.....when I measured them it seems that the Raybestos were 0.5 MM !! wider than the Wagner. Anyway, put the shoes on, adjusted them, took a test drive and...No heating up at al. Brakes work perfect now. Maybe it's worth to look at ?
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