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Re: CAN YOU MAKE BIG HP WITH A SMALL CAM
[Re: rb446]
#2471026
03/23/18 04:52 PM
03/23/18 04:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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I ran the CC .650" 290@.050 sft in my stock 440SP motor, didn't class that as big at all, it ticked over at 900rpm, sweet as, even without the CR it really needed,
Car was 3000lbs race weight, ran a best of 11.2@118 with stock 906 heads.
Added a pair of 2.14/1.81 mildly ported 906's, (probably 255cfm) went 10.7@125 which would've gone 10.5's with more air in slicks, and a few tweeks, was in 1990 and knowledge wasn't what it is today.
So working on that gain from stock 215>220cfm 906's > to BV 255cfm 906's = .5/sec gain, what would it run today with a pair of Trickflow 240's, (328@.650) 10.0's?...the cam/converter/gears/tyres were there for it....just theorizing....would love to get that back and run it today with the 240's to see, and all this from a stock balanced s-pack bottom end, a crappy Team G, small 850DP and just 10:1CR....anyone reckon I could've got into the 10.0's? So if thats not big what is your definition of big?
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: CAN YOU MAKE BIG HP WITH A SMALL CAM
[Re: HotRodDave]
#2471045
03/23/18 06:01 PM
03/23/18 06:01 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
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So if thats not big what is your definition of big?
Some of you guys should have raced with us in the 70's and 80's and you would get a better understanding of how you have to work with JUNK or within the rules. my Duster ran 9.82 back then at 2950 weight with a .030 over 440 block, 906 heads, stock crank, stock rods, TRW heavy weight pistons, and super stock springs. To get there I used a tunnel ram with two 750 holleys and a 750 lift cam. So with today's way better chassis, tires, HEADS, intakes, cams, and pistons it would be a "cakewalk". A 650 lift cam is not big.
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: CAN YOU MAKE BIG HP WITH A SMALL CAM
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2471124
03/23/18 09:13 PM
03/23/18 09:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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the .650 dont seem big to me, it was the 290@.050 thats big
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: CAN YOU MAKE BIG HP WITH A SMALL CAM
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2471361
03/24/18 03:00 PM
03/24/18 03:00 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570
UK
rb446
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570
UK
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So if thats not big what is your definition of big?
Some of you guys should have raced with us in the 70's and 80's and you would get a better understanding of how you have to work with JUNK or within the rules. my Duster ran 9.82 back then at 2950 weight with a .030 over 440 block, 906 heads, stock crank, stock rods, TRW heavy weight pistons, and super stock springs. To get there I used a tunnel ram with two 750 holleys and a 750 lift cam. So with today's way better chassis, tires, HEADS, intakes, cams, and pistons it would be a "cakewalk". A 650 lift cam is not big.  ....exactly. We had about 6 Koffel iron 451's over here in cars at £5000 a pop in the 80's, they had max ported heads, ultra thin rings and .750 roller cams, they managed 10.0's in most of the cars that were lucky enough to afford to run them. The MP .590 with 271@.050 is a good cam but its done in most race 440's at around 6500ish with Good modern heads, if you wanna run in the 9's@3000lbs+ you gotta turn one more than that unless your light. My junk 440 with junk 906's was still pulling like crazy at 6700 in the traps with 290@.050
Last edited by rb446; 03/24/18 03:18 PM.
1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990
1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
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Re: CAN YOU MAKE BIG HP WITH A SMALL CAM
[Re: rb446]
#2471393
03/24/18 04:21 PM
03/24/18 04:21 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
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I got one heck of a laugh years ago (1980's). While I was laid off from the steel mill I picked up a job at a local transmission shop pulling and replacing transmissions to stay out of the bars every night. This place was owned and operated by several dirt track racers so "dirt track" books were laying around. I picked one up and it was discussing camshafts and how they work. Towards the end of the article it touched on drag racing. The author wrote " I don't know how these drag racing machines even start with these BIG, sometimes up to .750 lift even start. LOL. Boy he should see what we are running now.
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: CAN YOU MAKE BIG HP WITH A SMALL CAM
[Re: gregsdart]
#2471592
03/24/18 11:21 PM
03/24/18 11:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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What is the original posters' version of small? .590 flat tappet, 3000# sb or bb
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Re: CAN YOU MAKE BIG HP WITH A SMALL CAM
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2472414
03/26/18 06:08 PM
03/26/18 06:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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... The author wrote " I don't know how these drag racing machines even start with these BIG, sometimes up to .750 lift even start. LOL. Boy he should see what we are running now. In one of the old Smokey Yunick books I have, he commented on how he didn't know how drag racing valve trains even held up given the extra lift and spring loads they used compared to the roundy-round engines he specialized in. I think at that time a .600"-ish SFT cam was probably typical for his stuff, so a more aggressive solid roller with .750" lift and 600#s open pressure would have seemed... "different", for sure.
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Re: CAN YOU MAKE BIG HP WITH A SMALL CAM
[Re: A/MP]
#2472675
03/27/18 11:04 AM
03/27/18 11:04 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
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From Vizard:
1. huge rocker ratio
2. tiny LSA
3. shorten duration
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: CAN YOU MAKE BIG HP WITH A SMALL CAM
[Re: polyspheric]
#2472848
03/27/18 04:59 PM
03/27/18 04:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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From Vizard:
1. huge rocker ratio
2. tiny LSA
3. shorten duration I like the way he thinks
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: CAN YOU MAKE BIG HP WITH A SMALL CAM
[Re: A/MP]
#2472871
03/27/18 05:45 PM
03/27/18 05:45 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
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On his BBC mule engines, this had the effect of increasing torque all over, needing less valve spring, and making the same max power at lower RPM with better idle quality and part-throttle manners.
His opinion is that you HAVE to initiate intake flow ASAP or the rest of the intake cycle is playing catch-up, so big OL + 1.9:1 rockers get the valve open around TDC really quick & far.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: CAN YOU MAKE BIG HP WITH A SMALL CAM
[Re: A/MP]
#2475523
04/01/18 07:16 PM
04/01/18 07:16 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 498
El Dorado Ca
65signet
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 498
El Dorado Ca
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I have seen a 383 with AVS carb runs 9s in a 1969 Cuda, just look at Super Stock, lots of iron heads and small cams going fast.
1965 Plymouth Barracuda 273 M/SA
1970 Plymouth Duster 360/904 10.60s with J heads
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Re: CAN YOU MAKE BIG HP WITH A SMALL CAM
[Re: A/MP]
#2475698
04/02/18 12:12 AM
04/02/18 12:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Back in the early 2000, SS cars were running .750+ lifts. I doubt that have gotten smaller. Ok, and that would be a Big cam, not a small cam. But your def was .590 or below, that's even a big cam by most. ???
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Re: CAN YOU MAKE BIG HP WITH A SMALL CAM
[Re: gregsdart]
#2475761
04/02/18 01:09 AM
04/02/18 01:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,721
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
GomangoCuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,721
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
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Back in the early 2000, SS cars were running .750+ lifts. I doubt that have gotten smaller One mag article reported Paul Rossi's 440 ss motor was using a .750 lift roller, and .035 lash, which would be more in line with Vizards methods. Crane R286 .750 lift roller was the baseline 440 Superstock cam in the late 70's.
Last edited by GomangoCuda; 04/02/18 01:16 AM.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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Re: CAN YOU MAKE BIG HP WITH A SMALL CAM
[Re: GomangoCuda]
#2475794
04/02/18 01:22 AM
04/02/18 01:22 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,180
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,180
Bend,OR USA
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Back in the early 2000, SS cars were running .750+ lifts. I doubt that have gotten smaller One mag article reported Paul Rossi's 440 ss motor was using a .750 lift roller, and .035 lash, which would be more in line with Vizards methods. Crane R286 .750 lift roller was the baseline 440 Superstock cam in the late 70's.  Mark Heffington owner and designer of Cam Dynamics made that lift possible with his lobe designs, no one else could make the valve heads stay on the valves back then with that much lift  Hence Harvey Crane buying out the completion to get his technology  
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 04/02/18 01:23 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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