Front End Tire Wear
#2456834
02/24/18 06:23 PM
02/24/18 06:23 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,404 Michigan
MarkZ
OP
Worthy
|
OP
Worthy
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,404
Michigan
|
I've had an issue for some time now with the front end of my car wearing the outsides of the tires. I've had it aligned twice in the last two years, yet the wearing is getting worse. From the printout I got comparing the two previous years camber and caster have stayed the same, so I think it's more a less a problem of not being aligned to a spec that doesn't cause tire wear. Problem is, I have no idea what values to ask for and it's obvious whatever factory spec is it isn't working. Need some advice before replacing the front tires again... Thanks guys...
Last edited by MarkM; 02/24/18 09:35 PM.
1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
|
|
|
Re: Front End Tire Wear
[Re: MarkZ]
#2456942
02/24/18 09:15 PM
02/24/18 09:15 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 200 Colorado
Bob J
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 200
Colorado
|
After you check for worn parts find a race shop to do the alignment. You will pay more but they will and set it correctly.
07 Porsche C2 997.1 6spd DD and SCCA Solo II SS 68 Plymouth GTX Convert. 493cu Hotkiss Wilwood Classic air, Building for Solo II Cam 65 Chrysler 300 Convert. project 57 Desoto 2dr. Firesweep 392 Hemi,Wilwood Project with son 2003 Dodge Dakota R/T "DEAD"
|
|
|
Re: Front End Tire Wear
[Re: MarkZ]
#2456948
02/24/18 09:39 PM
02/24/18 09:39 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,404 Michigan
MarkZ
OP
Worthy
|
OP
Worthy
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,404
Michigan
|
Sorry, for some reason the image of the printout didn't embed properly in the original message - I just fixed it.
All the parts on the front end are new. Moog bushings/joints/tie rods & sleeves/etc. Firm Feel T bars, and Firm Feel upper control arms.
It was a race shop that both alignments.
1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
|
|
|
Re: Front End Tire Wear
[Re: MarkZ]
#2456973
02/24/18 10:29 PM
02/24/18 10:29 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,777 ohio
ruderunner
master
|
master
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,777
ohio
|
Idler arm good? No slop in the torsion bar bushings?
Angry white pureblood male
|
|
|
Re: Front End Tire Wear
[Re: BigBlockMopar]
#2457011
02/24/18 11:15 PM
02/24/18 11:15 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,465 So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,465
So Cal
|
I think for one thing, since camber/caster are exactly the same, the shopmonkey didn't touch anything but the tie rods on the second "alignment".
Then, camber should be slightly negative. Certainly not positive, that's for old cars running diagonal tires.
I would also be looking at worn/soft bushings like idler arm, strut rods or in the upper/lower control arms. It sure seems like a "Toe and Go" alignment. Very few newer cars have camber and caster adjustments. .28 degrees total toe on a 25.5" diameter tire is 1/8" toe. I would suggest on a car that gets a good amount of street miles: .5-.25 negative camber. 3.5 to 2.5 positive caster .120 degrees total toe-in ( 3/32") you can easily gain positive caster and negative camber, if there is inward adjustments on the rear cam eccentrics on BOTH sides of the car. FYI .075 deg total toe on a 25.5" tire is 1/16" toe in. Convert Toe Angle to Inches:https://robrobinette.com/ConvertToeDegreesToInches.htm
|
|
|
Re: Front End Tire Wear
[Re: MarkZ]
#2457072
02/25/18 12:26 AM
02/25/18 12:26 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 350 central IL
myduster360
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 350
central IL
|
Excessive Toe-in is causing the outside edges to wear, not the Camber nor Caster.
That .6 degrees is WAY OUT, nearly 2x.
.28 degrees total Toe-in is perfectly fine now but what was the Toe in the previous years alignments?
Last edited by myduster360; 02/25/18 04:11 PM.
1972 Swinger 3.6L Pentastar Diablo CMR tuner
|
|
|
Re: Front End Tire Wear
[Re: autoxcuda]
#2457368
02/25/18 04:35 PM
02/25/18 04:35 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa.
Mattax
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
|
It sure seems like a "Toe and Go" alignment.
Mark, That's what you're looking at there. They only adjusted the toe. Sorry but thats what happened. That camber is out of spec even for the original bias & cross ply tires. eg from 1968 Plymouth Service Manual. Left: +0.25 to +0.75, Right: 0 to +0.5 degrees With modern radial tires - especially performance tires - they will want some negative camber. (Competition tires all have recommend range you can get from the manufacturer.) If you have nothing else to go by, based on tire wear with +.8 on the one side, and assuming radial construction, go for -.5 camber both sides as a starting point. Alignment changes must be done in sequence. The factory service manuals lay this out very well. This reduces the number of iterations to get everything in spec. 1. Adjust ride height. 2. Adjust Camber 3. Adjust Caster 4. Adjust Toe
Last edited by Mattax; 02/25/18 04:41 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Front End Tire Wear
[Re: Mattax]
#2457386
02/25/18 05:26 PM
02/25/18 05:26 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,465 So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,465
So Cal
|
It sure seems like a "Toe and Go" alignment.
Mark, That's what you're looking at there. They only adjusted the toe. Sorry but thats what happened. That camber is out of spec even for the original bias & cross ply tires. eg from 1968 Plymouth Service Manual. Left: +0.25 to +0.75, Right: 0 to +0.5 degrees With modern radial tires - especially performance tires - they will want some negative camber. (Competition tires all have recommend range you can get from the manufacturer.) If you have nothing else to go by, based on tire wear with +.8 on the one side, and assuming radial construction, go for -.5 camber both sides as a starting point. Alignment changes must be done in sequence. The factory service manuals lay this out very well. This reduces the number of iterations to get everything in spec. 1. Adjust ride height. 2. Adjust Camber 3. Adjust Caster 4. Adjust Toe Oh cr@p ! I didn't notice it had POSITIVE .8 degrees of camber. That BS. Have them fix that at the very least.
Last edited by autoxcuda; 02/25/18 09:46 PM.
|
|
|
|
|