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#2401172 - 11/09/17 07:51 PM Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting?
mickm Offline
master

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 3964
Loc: California
70 Road runner, stock 11" drums. Front left continually adjusts looser over time, and fairly quickly. I set it so there is enough drag to get about a turn when I spin the tire, and w/in 20-30 miles it's loose again. More than about 100 miles and it's dangerous, that side is so loose that when I hit the brakes it pulls sharply to the right. Adjust it out and everything is ok.

I just had it apart, and confirmed it is a left hand adjuster. I double checked that everything is connected correctly, and took a pry bar and moved the rear shoe back at the top, and it did click the adjustor. I double checked that it is going in the right direction, i.e. when the adjuster is turned, it is expanding and not contracting.

Had a mopar friend take a look, and he saw nothing wrong either.

What could be causing this?
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#2401177 - 11/09/17 08:03 PM Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting? [Re: mickm]
amxautox Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 95693
Loc: On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
Is the spring laying against the star so the star doesn't turn from vibration?
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#2401179 - 11/09/17 08:08 PM Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting? [Re: mickm]
NANKET Online   work
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Registered: 12/13/03
Posts: 3721
Loc: northwest USA
Can you post a picture of the star wheel and self adjuster lever?

1970 B-body has self adjusting 11" brakes. First time for this. Mick states self adjuster.


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#2401186 - 11/09/17 08:20 PM Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting? [Re: mickm]
Supercuda Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 12568
Loc: West Texas
Best picture I have of the layout from the FSM


Attachments
11 drum.png


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#2401188 - 11/09/17 08:25 PM Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting? [Re: mickm]
NANKET Online   work
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Registered: 12/13/03
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Loc: northwest USA
A picture of the actual brake on the car would be nice.

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#2401192 - 11/09/17 08:34 PM Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting? [Re: amxautox]
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track

Registered: 11/20/03
Posts: 32710
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
Originally Posted By amxautox
Is the spring laying against the star so the star doesn't turn from vibration?
that is what I would confirm & compare the tang/teeth etc on the adjuster assy on both sides to see if they are identical (other than the mirror images/different twist on the threads). The tang somehow has to be improperly allowing the star wheel teeth to vibrate/move for it to be loosening.
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#2401197 - 11/09/17 08:47 PM Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting? [Re: RapidRobert]
71birdJ68 Offline
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Registered: 02/09/12
Posts: 3480
Loc: Morristown Tn.
My Dart is doing that, because the spring has rusted, and lost all of its tension allowing the star wheel adjuster to be loose and not in gauge the star wheel allowing it to back off.

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#2401392 - 11/10/17 11:14 AM Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting? [Re: mickm]
amxautox Offline
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 95693
Loc: On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
Also make sure the adjuster is inserted in place in the proper orientation. If swapped end for end the adjuster cable and plate will turn the adjuster the wrong way, and make the shoes move AWAY from the drums instead of TOWARDS the drums.
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Tom

"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

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#2401399 - 11/10/17 11:43 AM Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting? [Re: amxautox]
dart4forte Offline
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Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 13809
Loc: Mesa, Arizona
Originally Posted By amxautox
Also make sure the adjuster is inserted in place in the proper orientation. If swapped end for end the adjuster cable and plate will turn the adjuster the wrong way, and make the shoes move AWAY from the drums instead of TOWARDS the drums.


iagree Sounds like the adjuster is backakwards


Edited by dart4forte (11/10/17 11:44 AM)

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#2401426 - 11/10/17 12:43 PM Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting? [Re: dart4forte]
mickm Offline
master

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 3964
Loc: California
Originally Posted By dart4forte
Originally Posted By amxautox
Also make sure the adjuster is inserted in place in the proper orientation. If swapped end for end the adjuster cable and plate will turn the adjuster the wrong way, and make the shoes move AWAY from the drums instead of TOWARDS the drums.


iagree Sounds like the adjuster is backakwards


I won't be able to get pictures until this weekend, but I

1) made sure this was a left side adjustor,
2) matched the position of all the components with the diagram in the FSM,
3) turned the adjuster by hand to make sure it was going in the right direction, and
4) then pried the rear shoe away from the perch, and it did move the adjustor, which I once again verified was the correct direction.

doesn't mean I didn't miss something, but I think all of that is good.
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"the orange fun car" 540 Hemi 4 spd 3:54 dana
1 of 1 - only FK5 70 Road Runner that used to be a 383 auto now a 540 Hemi Six-Pack 4 spd in existence

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#2401464 - 11/10/17 02:03 PM Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting? [Re: dart4forte]
John Brown Offline
super stock

Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 715
Loc: South Bend
Originally Posted By dart4forte
Originally Posted By amxautox
Also make sure the adjuster is inserted in place in the proper orientation. If swapped end for end the adjuster cable and plate will turn the adjuster the wrong way, and make the shoes move AWAY from the drums instead of TOWARDS the drums.


iagree Sounds like the adjuster is backakwards


Or swapped side for side.....
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#2401491 - 11/10/17 02:52 PM Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting? [Re: mickm]
John_Kunkel Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 18838
Loc: Rio Linda, CA
You are aware that the self-adjusters only work when the brakes are firmly applied when backing up?

Lots of folks shift to Drive after backing up and seldom/never use the brakes.
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#2401500 - 11/10/17 03:10 PM Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting? [Re: John_Kunkel]
mickm Offline
master

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 3964
Loc: California
Originally Posted By John_Kunkel
You are aware that the self-adjusters only work when the brakes are firmly applied when backing up?

Lots of folks shift to Drive after backing up and seldom/never use the brakes.


Yes, that's why I pried the rear shoe away from the top mount. And as mentioned, it worked as expected.
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"the orange fun car" 540 Hemi 4 spd 3:54 dana
1 of 1 - only FK5 70 Road Runner that used to be a 383 auto now a 540 Hemi Six-Pack 4 spd in existence

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#2401716 - 11/10/17 10:30 PM Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting? [Re: mickm]
rhad Offline
mopar

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 607
Loc: garnett kansas
does the spring set down tight against the star wheel?
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#2401875 - 11/11/17 10:21 AM Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting? [Re: rhad]
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track

Registered: 11/20/03
Posts: 32710
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
if nothing appears bent/out of place/not working/wrong parts you might pull the drum & have a helper work the pedal BARELY so the shoes expand a slight bit then let off & repeat & see if the star wheel starts expanding the shoes. work with him so he goes just far enough for the tang to catch the next tooth. Holler what it ends up being.
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#2401912 - 11/11/17 11:39 AM Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting? [Re: RapidRobert]
minivan Offline
master

Registered: 01/13/04
Posts: 9009
Loc: Eugene, Oregon
Originally Posted By RapidRobert
if nothing appears bent/out of place/not working/wrong parts you might pull the drum & have a helper work the pedal BARELY so the shoes expand a slight bit then let off & repeat & see if the star wheel starts expanding the shoes. work with him so he goes just far enough for the tang to catch the next tooth. Holler what it ends up being.


Keyword here is BARELY, unless you want brake cylinder pistons all over your shop...

Did some stupid things when I was young.... LOL

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#2401960 - 11/11/17 12:40 PM Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting? [Re: mickm]
NANKET Online   work
master

Registered: 12/13/03
Posts: 3721
Loc: northwest USA
Many problems on the suggestions so far:

1) the drum needs to be on to rotate the shoes to move the lever. Actuating the brakes with no drum will not show you anything.

You can pry the front shoe forward to see the action of the lever moving the star wheel.

2) There is no spring that touches the star wheel on self adjusting brakes.

3) if the star wheel is in backwards the lever will not touch it, it won't move the wheel backwards.

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#2401964 - 11/11/17 12:43 PM Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting? [Re: mickm]
AARCONV Offline


Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 4865
Loc: NEW JERSEY
I blame the star/ cable combo, if the treads are definitely turning in then something is manually spinning the star, is it the correct cable length? for that size shoe?
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#2401968 - 11/11/17 12:46 PM Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting? [Re: mickm]
NANKET Online   work
master

Registered: 12/13/03
Posts: 3721
Loc: northwest USA
The adjuster lever is the only thing touching the star wheel. It should be touching 100% of the time. It should be parallel to the star wheel.

If not then the length of the cable could be wrong, or the routing of the cable.

There is a spring that returns the adjusting lever all the way down and tightens the cable when brakes are released. It there a spring present to return the lever down?

Do you have the lever that mounts on a pivot pin through the shoe? Or do you have the lever that just clips in a hole in the shoe?

Mick, look at the FSM picture posted and compare. Show us a picture when you can.

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#2402050 - 11/11/17 04:01 PM Re: Why do my brakes keep un-adjusting? [Re: mickm]
70sixpkRT Offline


Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 3061
Loc: South San Francisco, Ca
Take out the adjusters and manually adjust them once a year.
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