Re: Rear main seal leak 8^(
[Re: ccdave]
#2394169
10/28/17 10:50 AM
10/28/17 10:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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OP
Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Interesting -- even if sometimes contradictory -- info being posted. I should also ask... which approach(es) is viable without having to remove the crank? There is now way to know if the upper and lower half’s of the seal are aligned unless the crank comes out... Your other option is to spend big bucks on that seal in this thread that is a one piece. YUCK! Hmmm... so what you're saying is: 1. Remove timing chain cover 2. Remove timing chain assembly 3. Remove caps from 8 rods 4. Remove 5 main caps, which includes 3 cross-bolted caps that are a big PITA to get to come out cuz they fit tightly in the block 5. Remove seal retainer 6. Remove crankshaft 7. Replace seal 8. Reassemble everything listed above OR: 1. Purchase an extremely expensive (overpriced?) 1-piece seal 2. Remove seal retainer 3. Replace seal 4. Install seal retainer IF people are having good results using the 1-piece seal, the cost is far less of a factor than the level of effort to pull the crank.
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Re: Rear main seal leak 8^(
[Re: ]
#2394177
10/28/17 11:10 AM
10/28/17 11:10 AM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,051 The Great White North
RAMM
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,051
The Great White North
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we recently had a 383 that just about drove us crazy--ordered a new rope from Best gasket--followed directions--stopped the problem but you can't do it in the car she really needs to come apart FWIW I have way better luck with stock type seal holders--we put it on block with no crank--line it up perfectly--then mark it so we can duplicate that when we put it together--that has helped a lot--we just use RTV on the sides I hate those blue rubbers--even if you get good at Ramming them in they still push on retainer and may not allow it to line up correctly--common sense Have never seen any advantage to offsetting--makes sense that it will aid line up of two halves but you run the risk of getting some RTV on the actual seal which is a sure leak IMO Bottom line if crank seal area is OK and OD has not been reduced by over polishing etc--it is still a Crapshoot these days--can't say if it is the seals we get or what but I am getting to the point of hating big blocks for that reason we went for over 30 years never ever had one leak and many were assembled after too many cool ones back in those days--now...it is just a sick feeling every time I do one because no matter what you do or whose directions you follow it can bite even the most seasoned Mopar guy I have seen all kinds of issues with the billet holders--IMO they are $$ tossed away Best Gasket rope seal comes with template to cut so .015 sticks up from block and same for cap--they say lube with red assem lube--it worked and was not that hard to turn so........ This dude wins the Internet for today^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Well done and said sir. I went to never having leaks in about 20 years of building them to 1 in 4 or about 25% chance of a goddamn leaker. Im also starting to hate building bigblocks for this reason. Which sucks because I really love big blocks. J.Rob
2009 PHR\EMC Competitor 2010 PHR\EMC Competitor 2011 PHR\EMC Competitor 2012 PHR\EMC Competitor 2013 PHR\EMC Competitor 2014 HotRod/EMC Competitor 2015 HotRod/EMC NoShow 2016 HotRod/EMC 3rd place SPEC Bigblock 2018 HotRod/EMC 7th place G3
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Re: Rear main seal leak 8^(
[Re: BradH]
#2394178
10/28/17 11:20 AM
10/28/17 11:20 AM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,051 The Great White North
RAMM
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,051
The Great White North
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Interesting -- even if sometimes contradictory -- info being posted. I should also ask... which approach(es) is viable without having to remove the crank? There is now way to know if the upper and lower half’s of the seal are aligned unless the crank comes out... Your other option is to spend big bucks on that seal in this thread that is a one piece. YUCK! Hmmm... so what you're saying is: 1. Remove timing chain cover 2. Remove timing chain assembly 3. Remove caps from 8 rods 4. Remove 5 main caps, which includes 3 cross-bolted caps that are a big PITA to get to come out cuz they fit tightly in the block 5. Remove seal retainer 6. Remove crankshaft 7. Replace seal 8. Reassemble everything listed above OR: 1. Purchase an extremely expensive (overpriced?) 1-piece seal 2. Remove seal retainer 3. Replace seal 4. Install seal retainer IF people are having good results using the 1-piece seal, the cost is far less of a factor than the level of effort to pull the crank. Brad if you found my thread you would see why I was almost suicidal. If that one piece seal works then it is NOT overpriced. The billet retainers are complete junk and are overpriced because they don't address the issue which is alignment. Clock the seals at 12 and 6 o'clock, hog out retainer bolt holes to allow the retainer to float and index on the seal. Bolt down the retainer. Get a new sealant nozzle and cut tip very small--Jam tube tip in retainer side hole and squeeze. It will fill. J.Rob
2009 PHR\EMC Competitor 2010 PHR\EMC Competitor 2011 PHR\EMC Competitor 2012 PHR\EMC Competitor 2013 PHR\EMC Competitor 2014 HotRod/EMC Competitor 2015 HotRod/EMC NoShow 2016 HotRod/EMC 3rd place SPEC Bigblock 2018 HotRod/EMC 7th place G3
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Re: Rear main seal leak 8^(
[Re: BradH]
#2394196
10/28/17 01:03 PM
10/28/17 01:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,514 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,514
So. Burlington, Vt.
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Just add me to the list of guys who went from never having one leak a drop in around 20 years(and not doing anything special to get those results), to now having to pray to the dry seal Gods and hoping I'm heard.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Rear main seal leak 8^(
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2394200
10/28/17 01:11 PM
10/28/17 01:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,299 NE Ohio
DoubleD
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,299
NE Ohio
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Just add me to the list of guys who went from never having one leak a drop in around 20 years(and not doing anything special to get those results), to now having to pray to the dry seal Gods and hoping I'm heard. I agree - I used to be able to change a rear main seal & put new bearings in while under the car and never have it leak - now its like you have to assemble it like your building something for NASA!
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Re: Rear main seal leak 8^(
[Re: DoubleD]
#2394209
10/28/17 01:38 PM
10/28/17 01:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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OP
Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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I have at least one, possibly two, OEM seal retainers. The one I know for sure I have had the cap trimmed a bit to improve the fit (per Muscle Motors' old recommendation). That's the one I removed from my last build. I used a 2-piece Viton seal, the orange side seals (which did NOT want to slide in worth a bleep), and plenty of sealant. And to be honest, I can't recall if that one leaked or not. If it did, that was the least of my worries when I yanked the engine back out.
Then I saw the the Indy billet retainers w/ the o-ring side seals and bought one. Before I ever tried it, I saw posts from people saying those weren't working well. Still got that one in the box. Crap.
Then I saw the Mancini billet retainer, which appeared to be an improved version of the ICH part. And, some folks on here like Andy said they'd had good results with them. I bought one for the RB 452 build we just dynoed, and a 2nd one for the backup RB 451 short block I've been collecting parts for. I remember comparing the ICH w/ the Mancini retainers and thinking "something" about the ICH looked "wrong" in comparison (even took some pictures that are around somewhere).
Now I hear that the Mancini retainers aren't working as advertised... and all I know right at the moment is that I used one w/ this build and it's leaking. Crap, part deux.
I haven't made ANY decisions on what approach I'll take when I pull off the pan to see what's going on. But it's pretty obvious I find the idea of having to pull the crank back out to be on the verge of unacceptable.
So... I'll keep reading people's feedback & suggestions (and will dig up Jesse's suicidal rant from his experience) and go from there. And I'll post the results -- good or bad -- when the engine's back in the car and running again. Thanks - Brad
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Re: Rear main seal leak 8^(
[Re: BradH]
#2394228
10/28/17 02:27 PM
10/28/17 02:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,514 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,514
So. Burlington, Vt.
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I've actually had decent results with both the Indy retainer(and there have been a few variations of it), and the Mancini retainer.
I had one of the Indy ones leak while I was priming the motor(yeh, I was thrilled with that).
I ended up grinding some channels in it where it was next to the main cap, to give the oil that collects around the seal a place to go. I also had a normal black seal in it at first, then swapped to the orange seal.
In that instance......those changes worked.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Rear main seal leak 8^(
[Re: BradH]
#2394245
10/28/17 03:27 PM
10/28/17 03:27 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,675 Mt. Eden Ky.
Hemi Allstate
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,675
Mt. Eden Ky.
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Have any of you guys experienced a rear main leak after changing to full synthetic oil ? I have had this happen in a low mileage 351 Ford engine. I switched back to conventional oil and the leak has all but completely stopped ! I had a perfect record on my BBM rear seals using the stock retainer and sealing the sides with silicone. MY Hemi has been sitting for two years now, and when I recently started it for some testing it looks like the main is leaking! I have to investigate further to see for sure. It had never leaked before, and I have switched oil weight and brands. Mark
1996 Ram 1500 Sport 1968 road runner 1952 Sears Allstate licensed, pump gas, Hemi 5.98 @ 115.73 1.33 60 ft. The best is yet to come. Painless Performance / Street RODDER magazine Top 100 for 2019
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Re: Rear main seal leak 8^(
[Re: BradH]
#2394261
10/28/17 04:06 PM
10/28/17 04:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,807 Mopar Country, Mi
ccdave
The Ultimate
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The Ultimate
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,807
Mopar Country, Mi
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Interesting -- even if sometimes contradictory -- info being posted. I should also ask... which approach(es) is viable without having to remove the crank? There is now way to know if the upper and lower half’s of the seal are aligned unless the crank comes out... Your other option is to spend big bucks on that seal in this thread that is a one piece. YUCK! Hmmm... so what you're saying is: 1. Remove timing chain cover 2. Remove timing chain assembly 3. Remove caps from 8 rods 4. Remove 5 main caps, which includes 3 cross-bolted caps that are a big PITA to get to come out cuz they fit tightly in the block 5. Remove seal retainer 6. Remove crankshaft 7. Replace seal 8. Reassemble everything listed above OR: 1. Purchase an extremely expensive (overpriced?) 1-piece seal 2. Remove seal retainer 3. Replace seal 4. Install seal retainer IF people are having good results using the 1-piece seal, the cost is far less of a factor than the level of effort to pull the crank. Yep; I guess I would buy the 79 dollar seal as well. This leaking stuff drives me nuts because these engines we build don’t leak when the cheap seals with stock retainers are used if the seals are aligned properly.
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Re: Rear main seal leak 8^(
[Re: BradH]
#2394696
10/29/17 12:00 PM
10/29/17 12:00 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,815 Sobieski Wi
bee1971
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,815
Sobieski Wi
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I have the Mancini retainer and zero drips
I just did a friends 383 stroker this past summer on my back with the engine in the car
I clock the black fel pro seals at 12 and 6 around the crank and then I install the Mancini retainer dry using the alignment studs that where supplied then I mark the block and retainer and see how everything looks
Leave the alignment studs in place and pull the retainer back off
Then install the side o rings and black rtv down the sides in between the o rings and a dap on each top corner of retainer
Slide the retainer back over the alignment studs , clean up the excess black rtv
Pull the alignment studs out , install the factory bolts and torque them down making sure your previous marks line up still on retainer and block
Let dry 24 hours
Last edited by bee1971; 10/29/17 12:03 PM.
1971 Dodge Charger Superbee 2011 Ram Sport 1500 Quad Cab Deep Water Blue Loaded Siberian Huskies
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Re: Rear main seal leak 8^(
[Re: Hemi Allstate]
#2394704
10/29/17 12:06 PM
10/29/17 12:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243 Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
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Have any of you guys experienced a rear main leak after changing to full synthetic oil ? I have had this happen in a low mileage 351 Ford engine. I switched back to conventional oil and the leak has all but completely stopped ! I had a perfect record on my BBM rear seals using the stock retainer and sealing the sides with silicone. MY Hemi has been sitting for two years now, and when I recently started it for some testing it looks like the main is leaking! I have to investigate further to see for sure. It had never leaked before, and I have switched oil weight and brands. Mark If it still has a small leak, it is still leaking. Synthetic oil just has higher capillary action and will find and display leaks to a higher extent. It will not cause leaks. You still need to fix the leak.
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Re: Rear main seal leak 8^(
[Re: BradH]
#2397030
11/01/17 10:43 PM
11/01/17 10:43 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,815 Sobieski Wi
bee1971
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,815
Sobieski Wi
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Put my 432 together
I mocked up both the Mancini Retainer and Factory Retainer
Just slid them both over the alignment studs for reference to see where I was at with alignment of the seals at parting line
First the slop in the factory retainer , or movement back and forth over the studs was way way way worse with the factory piece then with the Mancini piece
Anyways both retainers in short needed to bee pushed towards the inside of block for proper alignment
Got everything marked up top
Last edited by bee1971; 11/01/17 10:52 PM.
1971 Dodge Charger Superbee 2011 Ram Sport 1500 Quad Cab Deep Water Blue Loaded Siberian Huskies
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Re: Rear main seal leak 8^(
[Re: FurryStump]
#2397290
11/02/17 01:44 PM
11/02/17 01:44 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,489 northern,Ohio,USA
Clanton
master
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master
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,489
northern,Ohio,USA
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Ok I know this is NOT the way we wish it would go, but if it is a slow leak and you can come to terms with this "fix" it is something to consider. I made a sheet metal cover that bolts to the inspection plate holes on the bottom of the bell housing. Goes up about an inch upwards and turns 90 degs runs back along the bottom of the bell housing 3 inches. It holds a pig mat folded over about 3/4 inch thick with the bolts going through the pig mat. Change it once a season. Not ideal but after chasing your tail for weeks,it starts to look pretty attractive. I did the same thing!!!wow how funny.
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